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Old 15th September 2015, 08:48   #61
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

I feel there are only 2 ways that the manufacturers will wake up and provide safer products in India.

One can be led by the Government. If stricter norms are enforced and just like ARAI figures, if NCAP figures need to be made Public at the time a car goes on sale, the manufacturers will have to fall in line.

Second can be the consumers themselves. But this approach is difficult. As a buyer, I can refuse to buy an unsafe car if I am able to determine it failed a safety crash test somewhere in the world, but will everyone else too refuse. And with most cars available in India failing poorly, its a situation where you either fall into the well, or off the cliff.

Until then, manufacturers will keep pushing sub standard products into the Indian Market knowing that the Government is least bothered and the consumer is most probably poorly informed about safety and definitely short of choices.
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Old 15th September 2015, 09:04   #62
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

Quote:
Originally Posted by anand.shankar View Post
How many on T-Bhp have bought the 'O' version with the safety features ? If the Govt. makes it mandatory, there might be a popular protest condemning that, because majority of the population in our country thinks that an Airbag blow up will cost them 1.5 Lac to fix. I am not sure where they get this figure from, but just try randomly and ask people around
I have checked it myself for Figo, though I not own one. It was there for a accidental repair while I was for a regular service of my ford. Only the dual airbag dashboard along with steering column was for 1.05. Labor extra, I am sure if not 1.5, it can surely touch 1.25 Lac and when this is part of a frontal collision, along with other repairs and replacements it can certainly exceed 1.5 Lac.

Mind it, companies will not sympathize with you when it comes to repairs and will milk money for the mistake.

Cheers !

Last edited by i74js : 15th September 2015 at 09:18.
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Old 15th September 2015, 09:08   #63
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

Quote:
Originally Posted by drive2eternity View Post
One can be led by the Government. If stricter norms are enforced and just like ARAI figures, if NCAP figures need to be made Public at the time a car goes on sale, the manufacturers will have to fall in line.

Second can be the consumers themselves. But this approach is difficult. As a buyer, I can refuse to buy an unsafe car if I am able to determine it failed a safety crash test somewhere in the world, but will everyone else too refuse. And with most cars available in India failing poorly, its a situation where you either fall into the well, or off the cliff.
This country itself wants terrible cars otherwise why a manufacturer like VW will be having market share of <1.5% compared to over 70% of market share by manufacturers like Maruti and Hyundai who have second grade manufacturing standards for countries like India?

And even if few people talk about safety, the discussion remains limited around safety 'features' like ABS, Airbags etc instead of most important thing which is 'structural strength' and crash worthiness of the vehicle.
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Old 15th September 2015, 09:25   #64
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My two cents:

In a country where roads are designed (?) and built with the least thought given to scientific methods;

where drivers' licenses are up for grabs for a couple of grand;

and where drivers often create third, even fourth and fifth lanes on a two-lane road just to get a few seconds of advantage;

I think those western standard crash tests are irrelevant at the best unless we get to improve the general conditions of motoring per se.

Otherwise, car manufacturers have to build tanks like the military version of the hummingbird.

I apologize for being so cynical, but I truly believe motoring in India hasn't still matured.

It is where fora like our own TBhp have been trying to make a difference. :thumbup:

Yes, car manufacturers can make a variant that has all the safety features for each model they build at every price point. But, who is buying ?
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Old 15th September 2015, 09:33   #65
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

I have just booked a Grand i10 Asta (o) and we hear this news

I think it's time that as consumers we fight for our rights.
@GTO: With the recent reports as a base, can we (the forum members) not file a PIL at SC? I think all of us who are concerned can pool in resources to fight a legal battle?
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Old 15th September 2015, 09:41   #66
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
This country itself wants terrible cars otherwise why a manufacturer like VW will be having market share of <1.5% compared to over 70% of market share by manufacturers like Maruti and Hyundai who have second grade manufacturing standards for countries like India?
.
Exactly my second point. The general awareness level is pretty low here. And hence you see Swift outsell the Polo or the Ciaz outsell the Rapid.

How can we as a group of automotive enthusiasts help it improve?
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Old 15th September 2015, 09:51   #67
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

On a lighter note, having a weaker car is advantageous:

I witnessed a case where a Nano and a Tavera collided. The Nano was on the wrong side (this was a road with divider) and still people were favoring Nano owner because it sustained damages.

The Nano owner with rolled up sleeves was all out and calling names to the Tavera driver who was absolutely not at fault. I doubt even police might have favored Nano.

Have a weaker car - get sympathy from everyone !

We are Indians - Cheers.

I hope that better sense will prevail some day and things will improve in here.

Last edited by i74js : 15th September 2015 at 09:54.
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Old 15th September 2015, 10:09   #68
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Exclamation Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

Here is the Official report from Global NCAP crash tests: http://www.globalncap.org/wp-content..._result_v2.pdf

Maruti Alto 800, Hyundai i10, Ford Figo and VW Polo scored a cringe worthy 0 stars. However, VW Polo with 2-airbags managed to secure 4 stars.

Given the bodyshell integrity is stable, having airbags will make a big difference to the safety of a car. Same can't be said for Alto 800 which has unstable and is nowhere near safe with any safety feature.

At least, ABS and air bags need to be mandatory across all variants.

I have Grand i10 Manga. To be frank, I am scared.
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Old 15th September 2015, 10:33   #69
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

No matter how many times we discuss the same issue, there is not going to be any outcome.
Simply because as a customer a common man goes for a brand irrespective of its safety value.
And talking about boycotting these brands I don't know if that's even possible.
Even though we talk about boycotting here in this forum I see many Bhpians still buying the same vehicles which are structurally compromised.
Inspite of knowing the issues with the vehicle if we Bhpians are ready to choose creature comfort over safety, I don't blame a common man making the same mistake.
Finally this post is not meant to offend anyone, just my observation over a period of time.
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Old 15th September 2015, 10:50   #70
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
This country itself wants terrible cars otherwise why a manufacturer like VW will be having market share of <1.5% compared to over 70% of market share by manufacturers like Maruti and Hyundai who have second grade manufacturing standards for countries like India?
Quote:
Originally Posted by drive2eternity View Post
Exactly my second point. The general awareness level is pretty low here. And hence you see Swift outsell the Polo or the Ciaz outsell the Rapid.

How can we as a group of automotive enthusiasts help it improve?
With due regards to the post of above gentlemen, I would like to point out that the Swift outsells the Polo, and Ciaz the Rapid not only because of the 'unawareness' of people. Long term reliability, service network, level & quality of service and the overall cost of ownership is a major factor governing car sales in a country like ours where the average income level is low. Cars like Polo/ Figo/ Rapid/ Vento are not selling not because of their strengths, but because of their weaknesses pointed above; else Polo is still the most beautiful hatchback in the market and Rapid probably the best looking C segment car and not to mention would fare better in a crash.

On the other hand, I cannot fathom the fact that manufacturers like Maruti/ Hyundai are still making compromises in hatches like Swift & i10 Grand which are not cheap by any standards and are their premium offerings in the segment.

Looks like Govt. regulation can only bring their feet back on ground.

Regards,
Saket
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Old 15th September 2015, 10:58   #71
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

Does Europeans and US folks pay more than us for these cars?

Are their lives more important than Indian lives?

Seems its apathy from Indian government to put right regulations in place and make manufacturers accountable.

What's the way forward ?
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Old 15th September 2015, 11:08   #72
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

It's amazing how these manufacturers can think having ABS, airbags and ESP is sufficient. A shell which protects the occupant(s) is critical in ensuring survival.

I know it is not the same car(s) being discussed here, but these photos illustrate the importance of having a crash-resistant body-shell. The car involved was a 2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta which had a head-on collision with a truck at around 75km/h. It hit the truck and was spun around, and another truck hit from behind. From what I understand the driver walked away with minor injuries and all doors could still be opened. The accident happened in South Africa, pictures were sent to me by a friend some time ago.
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Old 15th September 2015, 11:42   #73
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

To add to that, the general attitude is that no one buys a car thinking that I'll crash it. Everyone plans to use it for 3, 5, 10 years or some even permanently (me too want to retain my T-Jet permanently).
Though I fully support safe cars, sometimes the posts on T-Bhp go overboard. To the best of my limited knowledge, I doubt that Ciaz is unsafe car and if it is than how come City is safer.
We had a thread titled Swift, Go etc. failing crash tests, now again same things are discussed all over again, I can safely presume that all cars from Maruti below Swift are unsafe and so are other manufacturers like Datsun, Hyundai, etc. Now after few months, we will have another thread coming up titled, India's largest selling car Alto scores 0 in crash test, just wait for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
With due regards to the post of above gentlemen, I would like to point out that the Swift outsells the Polo, and Ciaz the Rapid not only because of the 'unawareness' of people. Long term reliability, service network, level & quality of service and the overall cost of ownership is a major factor governing car sales in a country like ours where the average income level is low.
Regards,
Saket
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Old 15th September 2015, 13:33   #74
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

Interesting discussion

I believe, we should also look at the cost angle before demanding full euro spec safe cars. For example, an Elite i20 asta (d) costs about 10.50 lacs on road here in my city and if hyundai has to offer me a full euro spec avatar of the same car, assuming that it would cost 20% more, it would be touching 13 lacs. I20 for 13 lacs, how does it sound Imagine this kind of variation in the case of entry level cars like alto or nano which are super price sensitive segments. As bhp-ians who stand for safety etc one may argue that he would prefer buying a 'safe' car from one or two segments below than buying an upper segment 'unsafe' car, but think of the general car buying public and the impact it would have on the overall auto sector. Even if the overall size of auto industry gets disturbed by 25 to 30%, impact it will have on the economy, all the ancilliary units, service entities, job scene etc would be very high.

Journey to road safety / crash safe vehicles etc is a long term initiative. If all these crash safety norms along with safety features like airbags or abs are made mandatory overnight, i believe it would do more harm than good by taking cars out of reach for so many people. Need of the hour is 'scientifically' planned roads, imparting some amount of driving etiquette by stricter enforcement of traffic and motor vehicle rules, strict and scientific procedure for issue of driving licenses, prompt medical aid to accident victims and so on. Along with these, due attention can be given to making vehicles crash worthy, safety features mandatory etc over a period of time and phase wise (like how emission norms were implemented). Then also cost impact would be there, but in all probability we might be having an alto 500 (instead of 800) then, but it would be meeting all crash safety norms and would come with basic safety features.

Please don't misunderstand that i am supporting these (comparitively) unsafe cars. As a gen II swift owner, i had felt bad when i came to know that MS had done some structural changes to the Indian make and my car is no longer 4 / 5 star certified as per euro crash safety norms. I had actually avoided buying the super popular diesel V variant and opted for the petrol Z for roughly the same price only because of safety features.

As another member rightly said, our responses on the topic of 'safety' tend to go a bit over-board by calling manufacturers as cheating Indian public or by arguments like value of Indian life vs Euro life etc. I don't think any car maker is making exorbitant profits here by selling his products at prices comparable to their euro versions but compromising on build and i don't think that we can hold them responsible for not telling this upfront. But I do accept that makers like suzuki and hyundai who have a strong and dominant position in market should be the front runners of this initiative. As starters, they can offer their popular models in comparable euro spec (offcourse at an additional price) to those who are willing and who can afford. That, i feel, would be a good move.
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Old 15th September 2015, 13:51   #75
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

It is indeed tragic to see how bad one of the popular hatchbacks Grand i10 really is. Hyundai has happily CHEATED its way to success in India mainly because of sub standard vehicles they are producing. I am quite sure there would have been many corners cut in the manufacturing of other vehicles as well from the HYUNDAI stable. Just recently I ended up supporting the Hyundai CRETA but I am not so sure anymore.

This issue is about what value the company associates with its customers. Clearly the Indian customer is not of much value to this company.
Many have written that if there were stringent laws things would have been better. I agree but then it cannot always be about laws alone. What about the ETHICS of a company like HYUNDAI? Don't they have any standard themselves? It is particularly appalling to note they have a better vehicle for Europe and a worse one for India and that too the pricing is similar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Parth46 View Post

The damn thing currently retails at 7.2 Lacs OTR in Bangalore for the top end Asta (O) variant which has ABS and airbags, and given how the structure is prone to total collapse as seen in the video, even 7 lacs is not enough it seems to get a safer shell.
Fully agree with the above point. How is INR 7 Lakhs insufficient? Why can't Hyundai ensure a stable body shell for the same model in India? Why are they short changing the Indian Customer?
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