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Old 15th September 2015, 14:02   #76
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

Well in India manufacturers can get away with almost everything, thats why we see inferior body shells, fewer / almost no recalls , no safety features.

The truth of the matter is we are a developing nation with a huge population , a lot of whom are experiencing cars for the first time and hence not so well informed about what to look out for. This is the opportunity that the automakers exploit , quite frankly to them our safety means nothing especially when it comes at the cost of their profit margins.
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Old 15th September 2015, 14:15   #77
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

Know how your housing loan is treated by the income tax dept?

You file the return showing a split of the loan: the principal component and the interest component. Then you claim deduction for the entire interest component. That's the govt stipulation on housing loans.

Now (let me imagine) consider the following: 2 cars, car A and car B. Both feature the same engine and gearbox and belong to the same segment. Car A has absolutely no safety gizmos, car B boasts everything - dual airbags, ABS, EBD whatever.

Ex-factory, the car A will cost, say. Rs. 5L and car B, Rs.6.5L. ADD all those taxes and car A will reach you for 7.5 lakhs. Car B will set you back by almost 1 million rupees. This is the current scenario.

Now what the government must do is:
ask the company to file a split up: of the cost safety components and other components. For e.g, ICE is not a safety component, glare-free IRVM is. Let them file the cost of their safety kit, demarcating it out from the 5 lakhs. Ditto with car B.

What would we get? We will most probably see something like:
Car A = 4.5L non-safety component + 0.5L safety component
Car B = 5L non-safety component + 1.5L safety component

Now the government must then waive the entire safety component from tax. Waive them from everything every kind of tax.
What would you get then? You will get Car A for 7 Lakhs, and car B for 7.3 or 7.5L.

We Indians are not fools, we will check the feature of each and every product and compare them. When we see we can get this much by paying extra of 30,000 or 50,000 more rupees, which car we would choose?

Last edited by sandeepmdas : 15th September 2015 at 14:16.
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Old 15th September 2015, 14:18   #78
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

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Originally Posted by sasi@8689 View Post
Interesting discussion

Please don't misunderstand that i am supporting these (comparitively) unsafe cars. As a gen II swift owner, i had felt bad when i came to know that MS had done some structural changes to the Indian make and my car is no longer 4 / 5 star certified as per euro crash safety norms. I had actually avoided buying the super popular diesel V variant and opted for the petrol Z for roughly the same price only because of safety features.

As another member rightly said, our responses on the topic of 'safety' tend to go a bit over-board by calling manufacturers as cheating Indian public or by arguments like value of Indian life vs Euro life etc. I don't think any car maker is making exorbitant profits here by selling his products at prices comparable to their euro versions but compromising on build and i don't think that we can hold them responsible for not telling this upfront. But I do accept that makers like suzuki and hyundai who have a strong and dominant position in market should be the front runners of this initiative. As starters, they can offer their popular models in comparable euro spec (offcourse at an additional price) to those who are willing and who can afford. That, i feel, would be a good move.
If you look at the accident threads in this forum and most other forums you will see how bad the structure of Maruti, Hyundai and Honda are. Honda had a case of air bag failure and they responded saying the car didn't crash properly for air bag to deploy. From experience, you can close car doors and boot of all cars from Maruti, Hyndai and Honda by just using your little finger of the hand. Sheet metal wise Honda sucks big time nowadays. Try closing the doors and boot of a Fiat, also Volkswagen and Skoda and Ford fiesta and eco sport. They have strong doors and Fiat provides tough structure in its cars. If European car makers (mainly Fiat) can do that at the same Indian prices why not the rest. Maruti, Honda and Hyundai are greedy. People have to accept this fact. I do not own a Fiat currently. Own a Brio and know Honda's build quality. Rationally speaking, they can still provide a strong chasiss and good build at current prices. They choose not to.
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Old 15th September 2015, 14:37   #79
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

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Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
Don't you see how the structure of the car got crumbled and received 'unstable' remark in the test?

I thought i10 Grand will be better than previous i10 but the video is really shocking.
Yes sir, I did!

I suspect even the Elite i20 is not going pass the tests here! All these 'Indianized' products are going to be a compromise on safety. Otherwise why would they shift the export hub from India to other markets for the new version?
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Old 15th September 2015, 14:47   #80
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

Gives me an excuse to swap my Xcent S for a car with airbags and ABS once my company lease gets over

But seriously, its not just about Grand i10.
Any India manufactured car without Airbags and ABS will fair similarly.
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Old 15th September 2015, 14:58   #81
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmdas View Post
Know how your housing loan is treated by the income tax dept?

Now the government must then waive the entire safety component from tax. Waive them from everything every kind of tax.
What would you get then? You will get Car A for 7 Lakhs, and car B for 7.3 or 7.5L.

We Indians are not fools, we will check the feature of each and every product and compare them. When we see we can get this much by paying extra of 30,000 or 50,000 more rupees, which car we would choose?
I don't think so! Majority would still prefer a car with less price, and manufacturer knows how to promote them!
Given a choice, majority would prefer low price & attractive gizmos over additional safety features. Why do you think Grand i10 is sold 10K units a month, otherwise.
How many do you think use seat belts regularly? For all those who think seat belt is not necessary, how is airbag going to be of any use, in case of emergency? So, airbag is an unnecessary component for them, right? Why would they pay extra?
If the Government wants to make airbags mandatory - the action is directly simple. Make the airbags mandatory on all versions sold. There should not be any car sold without such mandatory safety features (2 airbags + ABS at least). Sops on taxes will not achieve the results.
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Old 15th September 2015, 14:59   #82
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

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Originally Posted by whencut86 View Post
From experience, you can close car doors and boot of all cars from Maruti, Hyndai and Honda by just using your little finger of the hand. Sheet metal wise Honda sucks big time nowadays. Try closing the doors and boot of a Fiat, also Volkswagen and Skoda and Ford fiesta and eco sport. They have strong doors and Fiat provides tough structure in its cars.


If European car makers (mainly Fiat) can do that at the same Indian prices why not the rest. Maruti, Honda and Hyundai are greedy. People have to accept this fact. I do not own a Fiat currently. Own a Brio and know Honda's build quality. Rationally speaking, they can still provide a strong chasiss and good build at current prices. They choose not to.
In spite of what you have written, Maruti, Hyundai and Honda trounce all the so called "built like tank" vehicles.
What does this tell you about buyer demand and value?

Majority of Indian customers do not value tank like build. Neither do they value safety features. Remember we are not talking about the one "whencut86" among 1 lakh car buyers who prefers safety.

If you are under an impression that people get mislead into buying the flimsy built cars (perhaps you regret buying Brio) - then you forget that many of the buyers are repeat customers. They prefer buying Honda once again, because to them something else is more valuable than the "thick sheet metal".

Buyer shows his preference via his wallet.
Now you get why the seller "choose not to".

Last edited by alpha1 : 15th September 2015 at 15:01.
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Old 15th September 2015, 15:00   #83
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Gives me an excuse to swap my Xcent S for a car with airbags and ABS once my company lease gets over

But seriously, its not just about Grand i10.
Any India manufactured car without Airbags and ABS will fair similarly.
You should see the crash-test videos of the Manufactured-in-India Polo.

Check out videos of the other cars that were tested and you can easily see the difference in structural integrity between the Polo and the rest of the vehicles.

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Old 15th September 2015, 15:32   #84
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

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Originally Posted by MavericK46 View Post
You should see the crash-test videos of the Manufactured-in-India Polo.

Check out videos of the other cars that were tested and you can easily see the difference in structural integrity between the Polo and the rest of the vehicles.
Rightly said. If the specifications of the same product manufactured in India and abroad are same, both should perform equally provided all QC measures are properly enforced. Unfortunately in this case, its clear that manufacturers use different design specifications for Indian market which is the matter to be discussed.

Last edited by bhp_maniac : 15th September 2015 at 15:35.
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Old 15th September 2015, 15:52   #85
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

Let me tell you something. That same polo got 4 stars just with airbags because the structure was stable and its built just like anywhere else in the world(Acc. to VW).
That shows that these companies actually value life and have put airbags standard on all variants of all models (VW/Skoda/Toyota) Ford is expected to do the same to the ecosport soon enough.

Yet these cars don't sell.
That is the indian mentality. People by VDi's all they want and then will come online and complain about manufacturers not offering the safety features.
Fun fact: Hyundai used to offer an Asta(O) variant on the previous i20. It was 20,000 more (AFAIK) and offered 6 airbags and a sunroof (It must be a bit more than 20k, I guess)
But they discontinued it because it had NO DEMAND.
unless manufactures start forcing stable structures and safety features down the consumers throat by including them in all variants, we will not go anywhere.
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Old 15th September 2015, 17:05   #86
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

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Originally Posted by whencut86 View Post
............... From experience, you can close car doors and boot of all cars from Maruti, Hyndai and Honda by just using your little finger of the hand. Sheet metal wise Honda sucks big time nowadays. Try closing the doors and boot of a Fiat, also Volkswagen and Skoda and Ford fiesta and eco sport. They have strong doors and Fiat provides tough structure in its cars. If European car makers (mainly Fiat) can do that at the same Indian prices why not the rest. Maruti, Honda and Hyundai are greedy. People have to accept this fact..............Rationally speaking, they can still provide a strong chasiss and good build at current prices. They choose not to.
Instead of taking examples of manufacturers, we should see product wise. For example, ford also has figo which going by your logic, can be operated with a little finger. They could not afford to give the quality of ecosport or fiesta at figo's price segment. Its the same case with figo aspire which i had checked out yesterday and believe me, its no where near an ecosport or fiesta in build quality (no offence meant to owners please). Similarly, maruti and hyundai have cars which are far from 'tin cans'. Nobody can say that sheet metal of swift (except, maybe the rear hatch) feels like a tin sheet. It may not be euro spec, but certainly not flimsy. Similar would be the case of verna or i20.

If you are saying that euro spec built versions of cars like swift / i20 / i10 can be sold profitably in India by these companies at the current Indian prices and with the current tax structure, i would find it difficult to believe. Airbags not being deployed in case of a crash has been a widely debated topic on this forum with examples across manufacturers all way to the mighty s-class benz. I would skip commenting on that as there are way too many scientific details involved to understand why a particular airbag did (or did not) deploy. As heavy and well built as the punto may be, we will have to see similar tests performed on it before ruling it to be safer than other cars. Hope we don't get any surprises if and when it happens.

I agree to your sentiments on Honda though. It really pains to go through the city niggles thread we have here. They have stretched things a bit too far and across their range not sparing even a premium and trusted name plate like city, which i believe, could have been avoided.
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Old 15th September 2015, 17:09   #87
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

"Cheap", "Mileage" & "Save Money" are in the DNA of most Indians. Terms like "Safety", "Quality" & "Value" are alien. To make sure that people understand such alien terms, the Govt should pass safety laws immediately. Till then there is no hope.
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Old 15th September 2015, 18:12   #88
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

Last week I went to Ramkay Fiat service center (chennai) to buy spares for my palio. In that same lane Renault, Fiat, Honda, Maruti service center is operating. Onething we saw that the accidental Punto, Linea has NIL shell damage. Then we decided to enter into Nissan. Duster was welcoming with a crumpled shell. Micra was decent but looks it had a light to medium hit. We thought of going to Honda and Maruti but didnt go there due to lack of time. I was discussing with my friend If you want to buy a new car then go to the service center first then go to the showroom. This will definitely change the perception about the cars.
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Old 15th September 2015, 19:18   #89
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

This reminds of my last year visit to Hyundai Authorised dealer to check on the Grand i10. I told the SA that I was looking for my first car which is definitely going to be a hatch back with basic safety features with airbags. So he asked me how much would be my usage. I said that weekend trips inside the city & occasional highway trips, monthly around 1000kms. So the SA said since out of 365 days in year, I would be driving for only 65 days, rest 300 days the car would be parked in the garage, so why should I bother to go for a car with so much safety equipment. So I came to the conclusion that the car manufacturers are bothered only in meeting their volume sales & increasing bottom line profit. I believe the cost of human life is the least in India. So the companies fool the gullible customers who have budget constraints while going for their first car. For most of the A segment first time new car buyers, the car is more of a necessity than a luxury. Wish all manufacturers make safety features a necessity rather than a luxury.
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Old 16th September 2015, 02:18   #90
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Default Re: India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test

I see a lot of comments saying that Indians are price sensitive and do not appreciate safety. They continue to buy Maruti and Hyundai inspite of knowing how flimsy it is.

Well, a car is purchased after considering numerous factors not just safety. Maruti and Hyundai have the widest network of showrooms and more importantly service centers in India. Secondly they are known to be reliable and fuel efficient vehicles. Thirdly the cost of maintaining those brands is fairly reasonable. Fourthly the resale value is decent.

Now, while people consider these 4 factors, they also consider other parameters such as looks, acceleration, handling, brand, comfort, safety etc.

Safety is of thought of as 2 categories: (1) mandatory safety standards and covers features such as good brakes, good structural stability, reliable components.
(2) Optional safety features such as abs, airbags, central locking, anti pinch windows, etc.

People know whether they are getting the items in the second category and they assume that the first category is mandatory and a given. No one expects that even a nano is structurally unsafe. The public assumes that the government and the company itself will not release a vehicle that it knows is unsafe, since that will endanger the lives of people. That is never negotiable.

Regarding price sensitive markets, yes we are a price sensitive market, but is that the only reason why we are being sold unsafe vehicles in India? So why don't these manufacturers offer us the export variants at a higher price? I mean it's being manufactured in the same plant, why not offer it at whatever price point they deem fit? No extra manufacturing lines required and people who value safety can get it. Yet they don't. Why???

Why do they not publish the detailed reports of the crash tests that they conduct??? Why leave us in the dark? Why???

Some people say that these companies are meeting the law of the land and if the law does not mandate safer vehicles why should they oblige?
Well the law is being made by these companies and their lobbying. What stops them from lobbying for a safer law? Why do they not even recognise and follow the standards as laid down by their own ARAI IN 2008? Why???

It's only we people who can force this change by refusing to buy these pathetic excuses. We need to boycott these unsafe vehicles. Once we do that these companies will have to offer safer vehicles.
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