Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th October 2015, 12:01   #106
BHPian
 
dpkbehera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Hyderabad, Pune
Posts: 311
Thanked: 205 Times
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by manish84 View Post
Regarding the price difference between old and facelift Ecosport:
To add to that, an exchange bonus of 18K (non ford) and 25k (ford) is available. However 35 OTR may not be seen as a discount as additional features would be available on the facelift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
Just one thing - SUVs they are not, by any stretch of the imagination.
There is a market for muscled/beefed up so called hatchbacks if not SUV's in the true sense considering the kind of roads in india and also considering the build quality of existing hatchbacks.

Last edited by ampere : 11th October 2015 at 21:55. Reason: Back to Back posts merged
dpkbehera is offline  
Old 11th October 2015, 13:07   #107
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 139
Thanked: 33 Times
Default Re: Scoop: 2015 Ford EcoSport facelift spotted testing in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
Not in the least surprising. The catchet and the perceived snob value & glamour of the term SUV among our country's yuppie car buying public - sublimely ignorant as they are about the larger & broader significance of the term - seems not to have escaped the overseas mfrs. And they are falling over themselves in their rush to climb on to this lucrative band-wagon, while laughing themselves silly all the way to the bank!

The vast majority of the entrants - the soft-roader/ cross-over FWD brigade - into this lucrative field are neither one thing nor the other! As someone aptly said, these are a just larger variety of hatchbacks-on-steroids. And the sublimely uncritical Indian buyer is lapping them up faster than they can be launched.

Just one thing - SUVs they are not, by any stretch of the imagination.
That's pretty insulting to the average buyer. I'm sure plenty know exactly what it is, but still need/want a bigger hatch to just drive on roads, and not off road.
kumar2007 is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 11th October 2015, 13:41   #108
BHPian
 
AlokSriva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fremont
Posts: 482
Thanked: 55 Times
Default Re: Scoop: 2015 Ford EcoSport facelift spotted testing in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by kumar2007 View Post
That's pretty insulting to the average buyer. I'm sure plenty know exactly what it is, but still need/want a bigger hatch to just drive on roads, and not off road.
Agreed! It was extremely condescending with a blitzkreig of heavy words, and lacked substance.

Indian roads, during monsoons, and then - on account of toll taken by rains - for rest of the year, are dotted with craters. Having a smaller car, with high GC is need of the hour. Manufacturers might call it PSLV, an informed buyer would give two hoots, so long a product meets his/her requirements.
AlokSriva is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 11th October 2015, 19:28   #109
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 188
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Precisely the reason i am tilting towards eco sport after almost deciding on Honda city and was just waiting for next week to book. But the trend + variant with ecoboost launched this week almost changed my mind and exactly for the reasons mentioned above about our city roads and flimsy city build.
rajdoll is offline  
Old 11th October 2015, 20:13   #110
Distinguished - BHPian
 
arunphilip's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,728
Thanked: 4,700 Times
Default Re: Ford EcoSport facelift launched at Rs. 6.79 lakh

Advice for People Considering the EcoBoost
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdoll View Post
But the trend + variant with ecoboost launched this week almost changed my mind and exactly for the reasons mentioned above about our city roads and flimsy city build.
To you (and anyone else considering the EcoBoost engines) I'd recommend you TD the EcoBoost and facelifted diesel engines and then decide. The EcoBoost's allure as a 'performance' engine is somewhat compromised with the nicely improved diesel engine (which is also incredibly city-friendly). Also, the EcoBoost itself commands a premium, so stepping up to the diesel shouldn't be too much of an increment. Of course, if your choice of petrol is strongly driven by low running, then ignore this recommendation!
Quote:
Torque for 1.5 TDCi Diesel
Pre-facelift: 204 @ 2000-2750 rpm
Improved engine: 205 @ 1750-3250 rpm
Although the torque itself hasn't changed numerically, just look at the RPM range it is available over - previously peak torque was available at a range of ~750 rpm (2750 minus 2000), but now the same torque is available over twice that range! More interestingly, that peak torque comes in sooner.

Peak power has also gone up by 10ps, but its really the torque that improves driveability and puts a grin on our face. Its this reason that has reviewers going ga-ga over the diesel Aspire/Figo also.


On the topic of SUV vs. soft-roader (honestly, haven't we beaten this to death already?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kumar2007 View Post
That's pretty insulting to the average buyer. I'm sure plenty know exactly what it is, but still need/want a bigger hatch to just drive on roads, and not off road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlokSriva View Post
Agreed! It was extremely condescending with a blitzkreig of heavy words, and lacked substance.
I think many purists are being put off by how the car is being marketed as an SUV - especially when it uses a monocoque and not a body-on-frame. Ford even categorizes the EcoSport on the SUVs tab, alongside the tough-as-nails Endeavour.

On the other hand, if anyone reads the accompanying website text for the EcoSport, it generally goes on about tackling 'rough roads, potholes, burst water pipes' - which is exactly the kind of stuff that you're talking about .

@shashanka: Let's give the yuppies some credit - most of them do good research before buying a car, and know what they are/aren't getting, marketing tags notwithstanding. And for those who don't know what they're buying into, who end up treating it like an SUV and suffer the consequences, well, that's their problem.

Last edited by arunphilip : 11th October 2015 at 20:25.
arunphilip is offline   (8) Thanks
Old 11th October 2015, 20:39   #111
Senior - BHPian
 
Ricky_63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 3,846
Thanked: 375 Times
Default Re: Price difference between old and facelift ES

Quote:
Originally Posted by manish84 View Post
Regarding the price difference between old and facelift Ecosport:

I went to AVK ford showroom in Mumbai yesterday. The SA told me that they have lot of stock of older ES and are offering discounts. According to him, company is giving 15k cash discount and the dealer is giving an additional 10k discount. Further he said that the discount would increase if you show the money.

As for insurance, he himself said that you can buy it from outside as the 49k zero dep ford preferred insurance is overpriced (he would not allow that for Aspire or facelift ES).

So the overall price difference between old and facelift ES is following:
1. 35k OTR
2. 25k discount
3. 10k additional discount if you push hard
4. 25k for insurance
*These nos. are for diesel top end.

So a total difference of 95k . I believe 95k is too huge an amount to pay for the facelift ES. Also current model is ready delivery whereas the facelift ES delivery would start only in December. I can post the new ES price list for Mumbai if someone wants.


Completely agree with your observation. Saving about a Lac makes sense to me If I want more power I would merrily get a remap & get a 110 PS !! Why not ?
Ricky_63 is offline  
Old 11th October 2015, 21:12   #112
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: mum,lko,kolkata
Posts: 704
Thanked: 673 Times
Infractions: 0/2 (14)
Default Re: Ford EcoSport facelift launched at Rs. 6.79 lakh

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
Advice for People Considering the EcoBoost
@shashanka: Let's give the yuppies some credit - most of them do good research before buying a car, and know what they are/aren't getting, marketing tags notwithstanding. And for those who don't know what they're buying into, who end up treating it like an SUV and suffer the consequences, well, that's their problem.
Believe me, this was not meant as a diatribe against yuppies - I'm well aware that they they are quite savvy as far as VFM is concerned. My piece was tilted more at at the mfrs., who are taking (in my view) dubious advantage of a situation, and doing their best to lead us up the garden path.

As you rightly pointed out, putting the monocoque Ecoboost (and its stable-mates from other mfrs) and the body-on-frame contenders (Endevour, Fortuner, Scorpio et al) in the same category is just marketing sleight-of-hand.

Granted that monocoque structures have inherently higher torsional rigidity and consequently better handling suppleness. But the massive durability & strength of the new generation of ladder frame chassis is evident when one takes a peek at the comparative kerb weights : <1300 kgs on an average for the soft-roader brigade as against ~1800 kgs+ for the body-on-frame SUV's. (The XUV is an exception and as such can stare one down as a proper SUV.)
And no amount of gobble-de-gook from mfrs about their new high-tech, high strength monocoque structures will convince sceptics.

The boffins at Audi and Aston Martin have been raving about their high-tech light alloys for years and yet they have shown no significant weight reduction to speak of - on an average their show-pieces still end up in the 1700-1800 kgs category or more.
shashanka is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 11th October 2015, 21:22   #113
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 188
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
Advice for People Considering the EcoBoost

To you (and anyone else considering the EcoBoost engines) I'd recommend you TD the EcoBoost and facelifted diesel engines and then decide. The EcoBoost's allure as a 'performance' engine is somewhat compromised with the nicely improved diesel engine (which is also incredibly city-friendly). Also, the EcoBoost itself commands a premium, so stepping up to the diesel shouldn't be too much of an increment. Of course, if your choice of petrol is strongly driven by low running, then ignore this recommendation!
Agreed, but apart from low running my assumption is that petrol controls are generally softer and make you less tiresome after drive . Also diesels when new are petrol like but with time, go on becoming noiser and harder to operate. I am speaking from my experience of driving our national engine. And also I am hoping that petrol will be lighter on pocket to maintain. So unless running argument is very strong (1500+), no harm considering equally powerful and efficient petrol engine.
rajdoll is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 11th October 2015, 23:50   #114
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vizag
Posts: 1,986
Thanked: 1,343 Times
Default Re: Scoop: 2015 Ford EcoSport facelift spotted testing in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashanka View Post

The vast majority of the entrants - the soft-roader/ cross-over FWD brigade - into this lucrative field are neither one thing nor the other! As someone aptly said, these are a just larger variety of hatchbacks-on-steroids. And the sublimely uncritical Indian buyer is lapping them up faster than they can be launched.

Just one thing - SUVs they are not, by any stretch of the imagination.
Let's say I'm in market to buy a car which may clear our huge bumps and deep potholes and thoroughly deep-rutted, scarred landscape passed off for roads. At the same time, I do not want a big SUV with 7/8 seats and nor am I interested in off-roading//mud-pugging/water-wading. So, what in your opinion should I buy? Would it be wrong to buy an Ecosport or its kind? An extremely minuscule percentage of even true-blue SUV owners ever leave asphalt and venture off-road.

Discalimer: I would probably choose a Scorpio over Ecosport for huge size and commanding road-view. But not for off-roading. I wouldn't do off-roading even in a Rover or LC. Off-roading just isn't my thing. But if I wanted to, I would go buy a Gypsy or Thar which not even LC/Rover can match in off-roading.
pgsagar is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 12th October 2015, 06:34   #115
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: mum,lko,kolkata
Posts: 704
Thanked: 673 Times
Infractions: 0/2 (14)
Default Re: Scoop: 2015 Ford EcoSport facelift spotted testing in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Let's say I'm in market to buy a car which may clear our huge bumps and deep potholes and thoroughly.......But if I wanted to, I would go buy a Gypsy or Thar which not even LC/Rover can match in off-roading.
Hello pgsagar,

I fully agree with your point of view - and for that very reason the TUV300 was launched. It has a small foot-print, is reasonably well-dressed (tho' not designer stuff as in Eco/Creta!) and has the ability to take all the pot-holes one can throw at it with aplomb - and also happens to be as rugged & as durable as all get-out due to its non-monocoque structure. It just so happens that it is home-made.

I should perhaps mention that I'm no longer bowled over by brand-names, nor do I categorise a vehicle's inherent virtues by the no. of "cubby-holes", the quality/feel of its plastics or its "ergonomics". Nor the no. of "rough edges" in its interiors or the no. of exposed screw-heads that can be seen by bending over and peeking under the dash-board or lifting the carpet. These all form part of the learning curve in an industry, and is already being tackled.

By all means (as someone mentioned recently in another thread in this forum) if one wants to 'wow' one's colleagues (at least for a while!) by parking the Ecosport/Creta in his parking-slot, do so certainly. Only, please do not give us that old chestnut about doing so just to sail through pot-holes & wading through water!

I am not carrying a torch for our domestic industry. It had been taking us for a ride for decades (who can forget the Amby & the Premier era, tho' of course that had as much to do with the licence raj mind-set of our sarkari mulazims as with the lethargy of the industry itself), but now that it seems to be shaking itself awake, I feel one should take a re-look at our home grown products.
shashanka is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 12th October 2015, 07:21   #116
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NH209
Posts: 1,607
Thanked: 701 Times
Default Re: Scoop: 2015 Ford EcoSport facelift spotted testing in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
And the sublimely uncritical Indian buyer is lapping them up faster than they can be launched.

Just one thing - SUVs they are not, by any stretch of the imagination.
Ford was very conservative about using the SUV: they used the word "urban SUV". Our 'look east' friends always blow their trumpets loud and there you have the 'perfect SUV' so suddenly all of these are deemed to be SUVs.

I was always sold on the classic fiesta's steering and handling but our roads never seem to improve, the size and count of the speed breakers only going up, whether it is the Bangalore's HSR layout, or the craters in Kuthiran(Kerala) that seem to defy my memory or the increasing off-road conditions in the Valparai temple zones.

With the Ecosport, i seem to be getting 65% of the classic ford's stability in the 4 lane, 30% of it during hard cornering, 85% of the precision in the steering(the over-assist makes it feel like a toy though), 120% better FE, the same 100% in the perceived build quality.

In the recent trip, i still managed to scrape a mud flap in a massive speed breaker, but hey it was only a scratch on it unlike in the fiesta where i had to lose not only the flap but also the rivets and such.

Now why am i saying all this? Well, i gave up the fiesta(classic) recently and i am mourning and still mourning but like in the movie 'perfect sense', one just have no other way than to keep going by adapting to the roads that are before us.
ramzsys is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 12th October 2015, 09:46   #117
BHPian
 
dpkbehera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Hyderabad, Pune
Posts: 311
Thanked: 205 Times
Post Re: Ford EcoSport facelift launched at Rs. 6.79 lakh

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
Advice for People Considering the EcoBoost
Although the torque itself hasn't changed numerically, just look at the RPM range it is available over - previously peak torque was available at a range of ~750 rpm (2750 minus 2000), but now the same torque is available over twice that range! More interestingly, that peak torque comes in sooner.

Peak power has also gone up by 10ps, but its really the torque that improves driveability and puts a grin on our face. Its this reason that has reviewers going ga-ga over the diesel Aspire/Figo also.
This answers my question which i posted on the forum i.e. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3822960 (Ford EcoSport : Official Review).

I newbie to torque and rpms..So this may sound stupid..Peak torque coming up at lower rpms make sense to me..Trying to understand what is the advantage if the band at which it is available is increased on the higher side of rpms.

Also i did a TD yesterday of 1.5 TDCi Ecosport. Found the NVH levels to be a bit high..The SA assured me that this is because it is a 3 year old battered bruised TD vehicle. The NVH levels are comparable to the Aspire if not better. Can anyone confirm the same.

Last edited by dpkbehera : 12th October 2015 at 09:50.
dpkbehera is offline  
Old 12th October 2015, 09:56   #118
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,471
Thanked: 19,378 Times
Default Re: Scoop: 2015 Ford EcoSport facelift spotted testing in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
Hello pgsagar,

I fully agree with your point of view - and for that very reason the TUV300 was launched. It has a small foot-print, is reasonably well-dressed (tho' not designer stuff as in Eco/Creta!) and has the ability to take all the pot-holes one can throw at it with aplomb - and also happens to be as rugged & as durable as all get-out due to its non-monocoque structure. It just so happens that it is home-made.
But what about handling, high speed stability? I know a proper SUV won't have these traits but what is the harm in the S-cross, Duster, Creta and Ecosport if they can traverse roads like Bangalore city and at the same time give you some amount of driving pleasure over good roads.

I don't buy the argument that cars like the Creta and Ecosport are only to wow ones colleague. The TUV is home made but the compromises you need to make when it comes to interior quality, ride, handling are a bit too much to justify it.

What the buyer wants is a car that can take the worse of roads (not the worse of terrain) but the drive of the car should not be unwieldy. It should be car like to drive to offer a mix of both worlds. This is where the S-cross, Duster, Ecosport and Creta deliver.

These crossovers are priced between 10-17 lakhs. Now can you imagine Toyota sells the Fortuner 2WD at 30 lakhs and the 2WD sells more than the 4WD. Most Fortuners are driven in the city with awful ride quality and never see off road terrain (pointless anyways if they are 2WD).

So when a buyer pays 30 lakhs for a 2WD fortuner, isn't that a bigger crime than a guy opting for a Ecosport, Creta, Duster or S-cross vis a vis a Honda City, Vento, Verna or Ciaz.

Nobody is going to buy a Creta or Ecosport over the Thar.

I can give you an example of myself. I never saw myself in an SUV or a crossover. Was always a low sedan or hatch type of guy. Then the roads around my office commute deteriorated. More than one person on board and I needed to navigate around craters and bumps else it would scrape. The roads would frequently get waterlogged and I used to traverse that with my heart in my mouth hoping nothing would go wrong. There were some alternate routes but trying unexplored roads which could barely be called roads was not possible.

I changed to the Ecosport only because I wanted a vehicle that would offer close to the dynamic characteristics as a sedan or hatch but give me the added flexibility of going to work in peace.

After owning one for 2 years now I can say it was the right decision. I do miss the direct handling of the Figo but the fact that I found 2 new routes to work which many dont take as the roads are barely roads and the few times I got lost exploring, just involved climbing a rut or ditch and joining the main road or when the road is waterlogged I can safely pass through with the low sedans and hatches waiting to watch other vehicles pass through before attempting or turning back is worth the loss of handling. Ofcourse if I had the money, I would buy a proper 4X4 SUV for bad road commute and a fast sedan for the highways. Till then this is the next best option.

The definition of SUV has become diluted but was there a clear definition at all? Nowhere does it mention that a SUV has to be 4WD and body on frame chasis only. The Ecosport, Creta, S-cross are only stretching this further. In reality they are giving the market exactly what they want not the other way around.

It is the customer who wants these traits and at the same time wants to be able to say he owns an SUV and not the manufacturers calling it an SUV and fooling the public.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 12th October 2015 at 09:59.
Vid6639 is offline   (13) Thanks
Old 12th October 2015, 10:04   #119
ACM
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ACM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 4,152
Thanked: 2,457 Times
Default Re: Ford EcoSport facelift launched at Rs. 6.79 lakh

For ES- Why buy
Looks
Ground clearance
Water wading capabily highest in segment and beyond
Feature Rich
Good Diesel and Petrol Ecoboost
Very good Petrol AT
Decent cornering.
Seating height.
Just close a door to compare bodies with vehicles in segment and beyond.
Loud Engine 1.5P for those that like the sound.
Good Music System. Not excellent but good.
Pricing. Most VFM among Urban SUVs.

Why Not
4.5 seats
Rough ride needs Rogers Suspension addition.
Petrol AT fuel effeciency averages about 10 so not for all.
Cannot bully anything but small hatches and compact sedans.
Ford is an average performer brand in India with only entertaining drive as it's known trait.
Loud Engine 1.5P
ACM is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 12th October 2015, 10:32   #120
BHPian
 
PrideRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BLR/PTR
Posts: 855
Thanked: 1,243 Times
Default Re: Ford EcoSport facelift launched at Rs. 6.79 lakh

Guys we are going off topic, enough has been discussed whether Ecosport/Creta are really SUV's or not. Somebody wants to call it hatch on steroids and others crossover, please go ahead. This perception of few people is not going to change what these cars are or it isn't going to change the minds of majority of the buyers.

Guys has anyone enquired with Ford service regarding upgrading/tuning the existing Ecosport to deliver the same power as updated Ecosport?
The Metro Ford guys were absolutely clueless regarding the changes and one of them went on saying, the higher rating in Aspire/Figo is because of lighter weight.
PrideRed is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Scoop: 2015 Ford EcoSport facelift spotted testing in India naveen.raju The Indian Car Scene 135 7th October 2015 14:30
Ford EcoSport - 2 lakh sales up! vijayvelprakash The Indian Car Scene 2 6th August 2015 11:32
Scoop! Ford EcoSport Facelift RavenAvi The International Automotive Scene 40 6th April 2015 16:59


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 02:26.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks