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Old 22nd May 2016, 09:37   #496
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

I think Honda has lost a great opportunity with the money conscious Indian family buyer who would have preferred it for the extra seats over most other 5 seater SUVs. But with 15L on the road price in Mumbai for the top version diesel, I feel its kind of Mobilio pricing revisited. Honda have to realize that it is nothing more than a stretched Amaze with the same engine, same interiors unlike the Creta that looks nothing like its lower priced siblings and clearly showcases itself as a premium offering.

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Old 22nd May 2016, 12:15   #497
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

I dont think Honda has lost something here. I hope they are trying to play with the same production lines with different vehicles. They are happy with the volumes what they are getting now in India including all models. Ofcourse they dont have the intention of aggressive launches in India. Coming to creta, it is not a product for money conscious people. Would like to wait and see how easy to maintain a diesel creta in long run.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 12:57   #498
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

Disclaimer:
1. I am not in the market seriously enough for a new car.
2. My previous cars have all been Hondas.
It is but human nature to want to get new toys. Considering i drive and am super satisfied with my civic vmt, my benchmark was pretty high. Impressed by the tv commercial, i mentally shortlisted higher gc and a new segment (suv?) as reasons enough to justify a change. With great excitement, I went to Arya Honda (apollo bunder) as it happens to be very near my office. Following were the observations:-
A. Lots of public interest.
B. TD vehicles freely available. 3(SA) approached me for a TD.
C. Brv is very very short (even with the roof rails).no way is it an SUV (strike 1)
D. Fit and finish inside the vx variant was not bad. Much better than the xuv in fact (that's a 15L car too)
E. Surprised by the all black interior, thought it would've had the universal black-beige.
F. Superlative visibility and airy interiors (extra large second row Windows)
G. Seats, which I was very apprehensive of, despite being el cheapo thin, are pretty decent. Could sleep all day long in the middle row if being driven.
H. Excellent leg room in the middle row, recliner is superbly comfy. Sliding second row is a great feature to have.
I. Superb arm rest in middle row seats, why none in the front row?
J. SAs were clueless, promising me same steering in all variants till I had to politely ask them to get their facts right.
K. Great boot (was not particularly interested in third row, so had it stowed away) but would have preferred a fully flat floor like the older jazz.
L. SUV?! No way, station wagon? Yes!
M. Driveability of ivtec? I personally found it to be identical to the city (4th gen ANHC). ie. good in the city with the added assurance that belly scraping speed breakers could be ignored.
N. Striking feature? Had to be the alloys
O. Will I go in for it? Nope! Honda, you have to do better to earn my money
P. What do I want? Don't know, more confused now, wait for the hrv maybe

Last edited by handsofsteel : 22nd May 2016 at 13:17.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 13:47   #499
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaranP View Post
Just test drove the BR-V petrol CVT today afternoon. After driving my City 5 speed A/T to the showroom, stepping into the BR-V felt like a total step down.
Interiors are lacklustre, cabin is much narrower and the acceleration is just unacceptable.
There's no armrest in the front either :/
Hi Karan, which dealer did you get the CVT to TD?

I did a TD of the CVT yesterday at linkway powai, the CVT was nice to drive in the city, but yes, the rubber band effect was visible, and audible, even at the slightest of pedal pushing!

Another thing I tried out was loading the TD with extended family of 6, me and the SA, on a steep incline, and when i came to a dead stop on it, and released the break, the car does go back a bit. Need to press the accelerator to start going up and ahead!

Is this the case with your City A/T? (I presume you are talking about previous gen A/T, or do you have the City CVT?)

I have driven conventional torque converter A/Ts in the US, in places like San Francisco etc with those continuous up and down roads, and never felt the car backing down. Release the break and all those cars always used to step right ahead.

So was wondering if this is (my BR-V experience) due to a CVT? Or is it also the same with torque converter automatics too? Fear to think how it would be on a AMT, like the duster AMT?

And then is the middle row of the BR-V less spacious than the City? It was quite a bit cramped up with 3 medium sized adults, with a kid it was ok, but even there, the family felt that our current santro is wider and more spacious! (No wonder the santro was advertised as the only certified 5-seat hatchback, during its heydays!)

PS: Front arm rest is an official accessory on the BRV micro-site, but the dealer did not have any details of it yet!! Definitely needed accessory!

Last edited by Hvt77 : 22nd May 2016 at 13:49.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 13:48   #500
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

The most talked about BR-Vs negative point is its side profile, mobilio looks, MUV over-hang etc. However, spent some time collating these images of 7 seater SUVs for reference. I am purely comparing side profile, nothing else, since they are different price bracket and proper SUVs. I think Honda has really done a good job considering its the narrow Brio platform.

Pls. note: All images were scaled and flipped to look harmonious, however no proportion changes or edits were done. Tried to get same or similar color images.

SUVs in the list all 2015: Audi Q7, CR-V, Santa-Fe, Qashqai with two BR-V images in between.
Attached Thumbnails
With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched-brv-others.gif  

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Old 22nd May 2016, 14:10   #501
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by -xplora- View Post
SUVs in the list all 2015: Audi Q7, CR-V, Santa-Fe, Qashqai with two BR-V images in between.
Pictures can be quite deceptive. Agreed, Q7's side profile is quite MUVish but the car is two size bigger.

I think BRV's length in proportion to its height, make a quite odd stance, more of a station wagon than a SUV.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 14:10   #502
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by -xplora- View Post
The most talked about BR-Vs negative point is its side profile, mobilio looks, MUV over-hang etc. .
Totally agree. I really don't know what the fuss is all about. Long overhang at the back doesn't make a vehicle less "SUV"like in any way. More examples:

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Long overhang only affects off-roadability (departure angle), which is irrelevant with respect to Compact SUV segment since it mostly has 2WDs.

Having said that, if somebody doesn't like the look of a car or SUV, it is impossible to convince them to "like it" with logic and examples.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 14:19   #503
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hvt77 View Post
Hi Karan, which dealer did you get the CVT to TD?

I did a TD of the CVT yesterday at linkway powai, the CVT was nice to drive in the city, but yes, the rubber band effect was visible, and audible, even at the slightest of pedal pushing!

Another thing I tried out was loading the TD with extended family of 6, me and the SA, on a steep incline, and when i came to a dead stop on it, and released the break, the car does go back a bit. Need to press the accelerator to start going up and ahead!

Is this the case with your City A/T? (I presume you are talking about previous gen A/T, or do you have the City CVT?)

I have driven conventional torque converter A/Ts in the US, in places like San Francisco etc with those continuous up and down roads, and never felt the car backing down. Release the break and all those cars always used to step right ahead.

So was wondering if this is (my BR-V experience) due to a CVT? Or is it also the same with torque converter automatics too? Fear to think how it would be on a AMT, like the duster AMT?

And then is the middle row of the BR-V less spacious than the City? It was quite a bit cramped up with 3 medium sized adults, with a kid it was ok, but even there, the family felt that our current santro is wider and more spacious! (No wonder the santro was advertised as the only certified 5-seat hatchback, during its heydays!)

PS: Front arm rest is an official accessory on the BRV micro-site, but the dealer did not have any details of it yet!! Definitely needed accessory!

I test drove the car at Solitaire Honda, Andheri link road.

My torque converter A/T City does not roll back in normal parking lot ramps, but starting off fully loaded on a steep enough incline does cause the car to roll back while stepping off the brake. Throttle is definitely required to move forward in such scenarios. So I'm pretty sure it's not exclusive to only CVTs or AMTs.

I haven't driven an AMT in such a scenario so I can't comment, but gear changes are not smooth at all, and you can definitely notice the power interruption while it's changing gear. Unlike torque converters, while starting off on aggressive throttle, there isn't a sort of artificial rev rise (semi rubber band effect till 2.5k rpm to get the engine in its power band) so you're pretty much left wanting for more power.

I've always wondered how CVTs are more efficient than torque converters because during acceleration, you're close to the red line while applying even 50% pedal input ; Revs drop only once you lift off.
CVTs might work out to be more efficient in stop go traffic, but the moment you're in the mood for some spirited driving, I'm not so sure if that will still be the case.

P.S. The back seat in the city is wider and the under thigh cushioning is way better.
Basically you're paying close to 15 lacs for an elongated and slightly raised Brio.
I know I'm ranting but somehow the car didn't tick any boxes for me :(
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Old 22nd May 2016, 14:23   #504
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Having said that, if somebody doesn't like the look of a car or SUV, it is impossible to convince them to "like it" with logic and examples.
The BR-V does look better in flesh than in photos, but there's no doubt that it could've been better.

The real problem is not the long overhang. It's the narrow width, the MPVish kink in the window line and the fact that the Mobilio was launched before it.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 14:29   #505
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

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Originally Posted by ecenandu View Post
Pictures can be quite deceptive. Agreed, Q7's side profile is quite MUVish but the car is two size bigger.

I think BRV's length in proportion to its height, make a quite odd stance, more of a station wagon than a SUV.
I feel its the other way round, infact Q7 looks like a proper station-wagon / estate. Height difference between Q7 and BR-V is just 50mm, compared to the length which is 600mm.

So in effect Q7 is less "SUVish" and more "MUVish" proportioned, if purely considering L x H ratios.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 14:52   #506
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron:) View Post
the MPVish kink in the window line .
Again, that is not an MPV trait. Cab forward design (results in a more roomy passenger cabin) is the only factor that differentiates an MPV shape from a SUV shape. Look at the best selling MPV we have -

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See anything in the window line?

If you have seen an MPV which has a window line similar to BR-V, its because the car designers wanted an airy cabin. That's all.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 15:17   #507
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by -xplora- View Post
So in effect Q7 is less "SUVish" and more "MUVish" proportioned, if purely considering L x H ratios.
Exactly what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecenandu View Post
Agreed, Q7's side profile is quite MUVish but the car is two size bigger.
Anyway, this is going to be a never ending debate as looks are subjective. Finally it boils down to individual preferences.

I personally find BRV to be more of a MPV / Station wagon on steroids, stance.

Different strokes for different folks, right.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 16:42   #508
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by -xplora- View Post
The most talked about BR-Vs negative point is its side profile, mobilio looks, MUV over-hang etc. However, spent some time collating these images of 7 seater SUVs for reference. I am purely comparing side profile, nothing else, since they are different price bracket and proper SUVs. I think Honda has really done a good job considering its the narrow Brio platform.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Totally agree. I really don't know what the fuss is all about.
The major reason behind this fuss is the 'Mobilio'. The BRV is a redesigned Mobilio and not a completely new car which Honda is marketing as an SUV. People remember the Mobilio as an MPV/MUV. There are a few SUVish elements in the car but as the basic proportions are similar, people are reminded of the Mobilio(which is an MPV) and thus, the criticism about the side profile(MPVish look).
If there was no Mobilio, then I don't think there would have been all this fuss. Yes, a few BHPians may have commented on the slightly narrow width and the longish side profile of the car and that would have been it. We would have accepted it as an SUV. And we still do, as Honda markets it as an SUV.

So, blame the Mobilio.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 16:53   #509
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

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Originally Posted by AYP View Post
If there was no Mobilio, then I don't think there would have been all this fuss.
So, blame the Mobilio.
I disagree. If there was no Mobilio, then the BR-V would look quite similar to that sedan that it is based on. But you can't blame the Amaze either, because if there was no Amaze, then the BR-V would look a lot like Brio. Especially if you are on all fours on the ground, and turn your head towards the vehicle at an 80 degrees angle (and squint your eyes a bit).
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Old 22nd May 2016, 17:23   #510
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Default Re: With Honda in Japan: BR-V preview & more. EDIT: BR-V launched

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
I disagree. If there was no Mobilio, then the BR-V would look quite similar to that sedan that it is based on. But you can't blame the Amaze either, because if there was no Amaze, then the BR-V would look a lot like Brio. Especially if you are on all fours on the ground, and turn your head towards the vehicle at an 80 degrees angle (and squint your eyes a bit).
Though the Amaze, Brio and the BRV are based on the same platform, the BRV and the Amaze/Brio do differ in dimensions.
The Ertiga also resembles the Swift twins, but there's no doubt about it being an MPV. Similarly, the BRV is an SUV in the family even though they all share quite a lot.
I don't think that its similarity with the Brio/Amaze has anything to do with the SUV/MPV debate.

Last edited by AYP : 22nd May 2016 at 17:27.
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