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Old 31st May 2017, 09:40   #256
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

I had given my Rapid 1.6 tdi for 45000 kms service to Mahavir Auto Hyderabad and was informed that the update would also be carried out. When I refused for this, I was told that it was mandatory from Skoda. I kept on sitting since 10:00 AM till 03:30 PM before the servicing work started on my car. Finally, the technicians somehow missed out on updating but it was soon caught by the SA. By now, It was 05:40 PM and then SA told me to wait for 2 more minutes while he gets the update carried out, I bluntly told him not to test my patience which they had been doing since morning.

By this time almost everyone was aware that there is a car which is being delivered to the customer without the software update and they all started panicking but I managed to convince them that I would get it done some other day as I had some urgent work to do and i needed to go.

They had irritated me a lot and at the time of payment, when I was asked again that what time I would arrive the next day, I answered by asking why were they so keen on doing?

They said that it was mandatory and I told them that the car belongs to the customer not the manufacturer so they can't do anything to the car in the name of mandatory update without the concurrence of the customer. That person with all audacity replied to me saying since they are not charging the customer for this, so any concurrence was not required. I told him that once the car was sold, the concurrence of customer should be required, whether he was charged or not.

End result :-
1. I came back with my car without any update as I had no time for it and was reluctant too. I read everywhere that many owners, If not all, have reported the loss of punch and turbo kick around 2000 RPM and a change in the engine characteristic.

2. The job card was not closed, I was not given any invoice and was given a manual gate pass saying that it will be closed when the software update would be carried out.

3. I came back and spoke to my trusted SA in Skoda Mandi(HP), who told me that it was better to get it done, however it was customer's wish at the end, though Mahavir Auto guys were after my life to get it done.

I am in a fix whether to get it done or avoid it.

Last edited by cruising_rapid : 31st May 2017 at 09:51. Reason: Adding more content.
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Old 31st May 2017, 11:31   #257
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by motorworks View Post
For sure there is slightly more engine clatter at lower speeds and during slow climbs over inclines like fly over and at times at stop and do traffic etc, but on the move there isn't any engine noise increase.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vishy76 View Post
Engine clatter has increased marginally in the 1000 to 1250 rpm power band. At idle, the 2.0 TDI remains more or less the same.
The news article below explains the reason behind increased engine clatter.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/05...-new-research/

Quote:
In many of the function sheets, the code to cheat emissions tests was labeled as modifying the “acoustic condition” of the engine—a label that helped the cheat fly under the radar for as long as it did. But the “acoustic condition” wasn’t simply labeling legerdemain. Originally, “acoustic condition” code really did apply to the sound of the engine on startup.

The labelling checks out with a story in a legal complaint filed by the New York Attorney General in July 2016. The state’s top lawyer wrote that, as early as 2004, Audi was looking for a way to stop the rattling sound that diesel engines are known to make as the engine starts up. They allegedly solved the problem by injecting extra fuel as the engine initiated combustion. The extra fuel increased emissions. So, the “acoustic condition” was modified to discern when lab testing was occurring so that the Audis in question could pass their emissions tests and also have nice quiet start-ups that customers would find inoffensive.
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Old 31st May 2017, 13:05   #258
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

My Polo 1.2 Diesel was updated last week. My observations post update:-
- Car felt better to drive at low speeds. In start-stop traffic and after a sharp speed-bump, i had to put it in first gear before. Now, i am able to do so in the second gear.
- Clatter has definitely increased.
- Felt smoother to drive now.
- Haven't tested it on the highway yet to confirm top end drive.
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Old 31st May 2017, 14:08   #259
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruising_rapid View Post
I had given my Rapid 1.6 tdi for 45000 kms service to Mahavir Auto Hyderabad and was informed that the update would also be carried out. When I refused for this, I was told that it was mandatory from Skoda. I kept on sitting since 10:00 AM till 03:30 PM before the servicing work started on my car. Finally, the technicians somehow missed out on updating but it was soon caught by the SA. By now, It was 05:40 PM and then SA told me to wait for 2 more minutes while he gets the update carried out, I bluntly told him not to test my patience which they had been doing since morning.

By this time almost everyone was aware that there is a car which is being delivered to the customer without the software update and they all started panicking but I managed to convince them that I would get it done some other day as I had some urgent work to do and i needed to go.

They had irritated me a lot and at the time of payment, when I was asked again that what time I would arrive the next day, I answered by asking why were they so keen on doing?

They said that it was mandatory and I told them that the car belongs to the customer not the manufacturer so they can't do anything to the car in the name of mandatory update without the concurrence of the customer. That person with all audacity replied to me saying since they are not charging the customer for this, so any concurrence was not required. I told him that once the car was sold, the concurrence of customer should be required, whether he was charged or not.

End result :-
1. I came back with my car without any update as I had no time for it and was reluctant too. I read everywhere that many owners, If not all, have reported the loss of punch and turbo kick around 2000 RPM and a change in the engine characteristic.

2. The job card was not closed, I was not given any invoice and was given a manual gate pass saying that it will be closed when the software update would be carried out.

3. I came back and spoke to my trusted SA in Skoda Mandi(HP), who told me that it was better to get it done, however it was customer's wish at the end, though Mahavir Auto guys were after my life to get it done.

I am in a fix whether to get it done or avoid it.
If your car is still under warranty, I would say you are at their mercy. You never know in future they might say no to warranty since you did not get this done. Not sure how they are going to make sure that the cars which no more visit their workshop are updated.
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Old 31st May 2017, 14:37   #260
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

I went to the service centre for something else on my Vento TDI and they said they will do the update. I flatly refused and the SA agreed and they didn't perform the update.

When the bill came he also asked me to sign a one page document saying that "i have refused the update and in doing so there could be technical problems later for which VW and the dealer cannot be held responsible and that i am waiving them from all responsibilities" (though not exactly in the same words this was the gist of it). I flatly refused to sign it saying that when it is voluntary why do i have to sign a waiver and i am not going to give a written document waiving them of all responsibilities because i didn't do the update. He argued a lot and i didn't budge. Finally he made a note in the invoice that i refused the update and thats it.

This document is a problem. Has anyone else seen this or signed this?

P.S. My car is still under extended warranty
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Old 31st May 2017, 15:01   #261
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by neoonwheels View Post
If your car is still under warranty, I would say you are at their mercy. You never know in future they might say no to warranty since you did not get this done. Not sure how they are going to make sure that the cars which no more visit their workshop are updated.
Well, This possibility gets me worried as my car is under extended warranty till March-2019.

The cars which no longer visit their workshop are possibly those ones which are beyond the warranty period and choice of repair, maintenance and upkeep to be done from authorised service centres rests solely with the owners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A View Post
I went to the service centre for something else on my Vento TDI and they said they will do the update. I flatly refused and the SA agreed and they didn't perform the update.

When the bill came he also asked me to sign a one page document saying that "i have refused the update and in doing so there could be technical problems later for which VW and the dealer cannot be held responsible and that i am waiving them from all responsibilities" (though not exactly in the same words this was the gist of it). I flatly refused to sign it saying that when it is voluntary why do i have to sign a waiver and i am not going to give a written document waiving them of all responsibilities because i didn't do the update. He argued a lot and i didn't budge. Finally he made a note in the invoice that i refused the update and thats it.

This document is a problem. Has anyone else seen this or signed this?

P.S. My car is still under extended warranty
This attitude is a major reason why in spite of getting a clean slate to start with in Indian automotive market, Volkswagen has not yet been able to entrench its legs firmly in our country. In your case, they tried to use it as an opportunity to cunningly waive themselves from any technical glitch arising out in future due to their own engineering failure and blame it squarely on you.

Due to this lack of confidence on part of manufacturer coupled with their arrogant behaviour, I might not add another car in my garage from their stable.
We never faced any such engineering glitch and cheating in our Honda car.
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Old 5th June 2017, 17:39   #262
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Guys,

I have given my 2014 Polo 1.5 TDI for 45k servicing, and service center did check my VIN and asked me to update software as a mandatory operation.

I said yes, they did inform me that noise will incerease and you will feel little sluggishness. Now I have driven almost 700-800 kms after servicing and software update.

Following are the observations:

1. Noise is very very high.
2. I have lost power punch. I feel like I am driving some maruti wagonR or something
3. Ride smoothness has gone

In my opinion - THIS SOFTWARE UPDATE is PATHETIC. DO NOT GO FOR IT IF YOU ARE NOT IN WARRANTY. As a matter of fact I am not very aggressive driver still I am frustrated with my VW's driving manner.

Now my question to experts here - is it possible to get ECU remapped to earlier parameters (my car is in extended warranty until July 2018)? Has anyone tried to do it? Any tips on how to convince service center guys to go back to earlier settings? (thanks in advance)
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Old 5th June 2017, 19:27   #263
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by NickKohl123 View Post
Guys,

I have given my 2014 Polo 1.5 TDI for 45k servicing, and service center did check my VIN and asked me to update software as a mandatory operation.

I said yes, they did inform me that noise will incerease and you will feel little sluggishness. Now I have driven almost 700-800 kms after servicing and software update.

Following are the observations:

1. Noise is very very high.
2. I have lost power punch. I feel like I am driving some maruti wagonR or something
3. Ride smoothness has gone

In my opinion - THIS SOFTWARE UPDATE is PATHETIC. DO NOT GO FOR IT IF YOU ARE NOT IN WARRANTY. As a matter of fact I am not very aggressive driver still I am frustrated with my VW's driving manner.

Now my question to experts here - is it possible to get ECU remapped to earlier parameters (my car is in extended warranty until July 2018)? Has anyone tried to do it? Any tips on how to convince service center guys to go back to earlier settings? (thanks in advance)
It should be theoretically possible. I have heard of a Laura owner who complained of irregular idling and got his stock map back. Even I want to do the same to our Jetta (noise and sluggishness) but my dad doesn't listen.

However, do keep in mind, these idiots always have unsuspecting tricks up their nasty sleeves. I remember an incidence on this very thread where they said they would not honor warranty claims if the car was not recalled. Such fools I tell you!

I have heard that the recall has caused a DPF failiure and fault in the injectors of many cars. However, Volkswagen replaced these parts free of cost in majority of incidences.

-Just quiz the Service centre whether you can revert back without voiding warranty. If they agree, take it in written from them that they won't void your warranty if you revert

- Consider an aftermarket remap if you have a manual transmission
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Old 5th June 2017, 19:48   #264
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by vishy76 View Post

I have heard that the recall has caused a DPF failiure and fault in the injectors of many cars. However, Volkswagen replaced these parts free of cost in majority of incidences.

-Just quiz the Service centre whether you can revert back without voiding warranty. If they agree, take it in written from them that they won't void your warranty if you revert

- Consider an aftermarket remap if you have a manual transmission
The recall has started some 6-8 months back right? How come there are reported issues of injector failures so early? Any data to back this ?

I have bought a used Jetta and its been updated with the Dieselgate fix in Jan of this year. Now I am worried if this gonna fail in some way or other
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Old 5th June 2017, 20:06   #265
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by neoonwheels View Post
The recall has started some 6-8 months back right? How come there are reported issues of injector failures so early? Any data to back this ?

I have bought a used Jetta and its been updated with the Dieselgate fix in Jan of this year. Now I am worried if this gonna fail in some way or other
Yep here's a link and a quote from the same.

Quote:


• My 2 litre 140BHP Seat Exeo had the update a couple of weeks ago. I’ve not noticed any difference in the way it drives but the MPG is down 5%-10%.

• The DPF [diesel particulate filter] is regenerating three or four times a week and filling the car with fumes. Also lots of smoke coming from the exhaust … didn’t happen before the upgrade.

• Our 2012 Tiguan 2.0 TDi BlueMotion was returned with obvious loss of power at 1,000-2,000 RPM. First (VW) mechanic that tested it confirmed the motor lacked power.

• After the update our car was returned with the engine light on. At first they couldn’t figure out why, then said an air intake actuator would need to be replaced and would cost me £600.

• This is the reason I left Volkswagen. My conscience would not let me carry on telling loyal customers that the new version of engine management software was not causing the problems you all seem to be suffering. If any of the customers who I had contact with are reading this forum I can only apologise. You don’t legally have to get the recall done, it is not safety related. It causes more harm than it cures.
Another serious incident.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...ar-undriveable

Quote:
This week Guardian Money was contacted by reader James Harrison who says the recall has ruined his car. His family’s 2010 Golf 1.6 diesel required a significant change to the engine. However, Harrison claims the car, which has done 50,000 miles, has become almost undriveable since the work was done. “The car has begun to stall intermittently, and is difficult to restart. It used to go into ‘regeneration mode’ [whereby soot collected in a filter is burnt off at high temperature to leave only a tiny ash residue] a few times a year, but now does it on almost every journey. This is my wife’s car and is used to transport our two children. As far as I can see they have ruined a perfectly working car.”
I am worried here. My beloved Jetta is out of warranty. Any replacements, would cost me $$$ and my dad is going to sell the car of for sure. (he isn't a car lover)

Fingers crossed, no Volkswagen owner goes through these problems due to a fraud committed by a company.

Another article. Claims that a rare number of cars are affected.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...ses-breakdowns

Quote:
The damning claims come from a report submitted by the Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum (VDCF) that says owners of cars issued with a fix for affected 2.0-litre diesel engines have also noticed increased exhaust smoke, excessive regeneration of diesel particulate filters (DPF) and DPF failure.

It says exhaust gas regeneration (EGR) valves have also failed, as have turbochargers and fuel injectors. Further claims state that other vehicles have entered limp mode or their engines have got louder once the voluntary fix was issued.

But VW has told Autocar that these issues affect less than 1% of the 600,000 cars it has fixed (at around 20,000 a week), which equates to less than 6000 cars overall.

A spokesman said: "That means that over 99% of customers are satisfied with the application of the technical measures, which of course are carried out free of charge. As you would expect, we make it a priority to look at the vehicles of the very small proportion of customers who report any issues."

VW also believes that a large portion of the vehicles with problems have been poorly maintained, with some even missing their factory-fitted DPFs. It says this means many of the issues that have arisen are unrelated to the fix.

Last edited by vishy76 : 5th June 2017 at 20:12.
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Old 5th June 2017, 20:06   #266
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by vishy76 View Post

- Consider an aftermarket remap if you have a manual transmission
I think bhpian iliketurtles (Pete's) remapped his DSG Jetta so aftermarket remaps for DSG shouldn't be an issue.
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Old 5th June 2017, 20:08   #267
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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I think bhpian iliketurtles (Pete's) remapped his DSG Jetta so aftermarket remaps for DSG shouldn't be an issue.
Theoretically, yes. However, the Vento uses a DSQ-250 dry clutch unit. As the name suggests, the gearbox can handle 250nm of torque. Beyond this, there is no guarantee that the gearbox could stand the stress.

It's better that DSG owners don't go for a remap when in warranty. The 7 speed DSG is a problem child, so better to stay away from these things.

The Jetta has a much better wet clutch unit, designed to handle more torque.

Last edited by vishy76 : 5th June 2017 at 20:11.
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Old 5th June 2017, 22:08   #268
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by vishy76 View Post
As the name suggests, the gearbox can handle 250nm of torque. Beyond this, there is no guarantee that the gearbox could stand the stress.
A small correction. The 7 speed dry clutch gear box in the Polo GT, Vento TSi, Vento TDi, Rapid TDi, Octavia TSi, Polo GTi etc. is DQ200.

DQ250 is the 6 speed wet clutch gear box doing duty in the diesel Jetta, Octava, Superb etc.
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Old 6th June 2017, 09:49   #269
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

My friend's 1.5 TDI polo was recently recalled and the following observations were made post software update:

1. Major engine clatter.
2. Loss of power/ Turbo kick in feels lethargic.
3. Acceleration is dull.

when buying any car I look at handling, acceleration and power. Having personally driven this car for thousands of kilometers it was a fantastic car to drive before the update but after? If I were in my friends' shoes, I would have felt cheated. Paying 10 lakhs for car only to drive it under powered is not something I would like.

To justify their blunder VW is compensating by giving away some sort of goody gift hamper to their customers, now when I look at how VW is "compensating" their customers in the US, I smell double standards and it is gutting, a gift hamper? seriously.? This is to me totally unacceptable.
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Old 12th June 2017, 11:12   #270
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Just got a call from Autobahn Navi Mumbai that a software update is available for my 2014 Vento 1.6. Here's what happened:
Lady: Sir, we have a software update for your vehicle.
Me: What software update? I had my car serviced in April and the software was updated then.
Lady: This is a mandatory software update directly from Volkswagen, India
Me: Is this about the emission issue?
Lady: No, it's a software update to improve your car's performance
Me: Are you sure? I was not contacted by Volkswagen officially. Besides, I'm aware this is for fixing the emission problem.
Lady: No, it will improve the performance of your car
Me: Will there be any other parts changed? (I had read earlier that for the 1.6 engine there would be some part changes along with a software fix)
Lady: No, just software update. It will take a couple of hours and you will not be charged.
Me: I'm happy with the performance of my car and don't want an increase.
Lady: But it's mandatory....
Me: (Getting irritated at this point) I own the car and I will decide what I would like to be done with it. Neither you nor VW can force me to anything to the car without my consent.
Lady: (Sensing my tone) Ok sir. We have a special offer where you can have your car dented and painted and it will be covered under insurance.
Me: Are you telling me that you are committing insurance fraud?
Lady: No sir, if you have any bodywork to be done and have zero-depreciation insurance, you can have it done at our workshop.
Me: What is it that you will do if a customer has insurance and wants to get the car repaired? It is already covered under insurance...
Lady: OK sir, thank you.

It got slightly off topic but now that I'm calm, I'm thinking about what I should do with my car.
> The whole reason I bought it was for performance and as per the reports that's gonna go down the drain if I get this update.
> I like to get the service done at the workshop for peace of mind but now I won't be able to visit for the fear of the update. (Some people have reported updates being done even after signing a form)
> I was planning an ECU remap for later this year but don't know how that would be affected or whether it will override the damage done by this software fix.

I have absolutely no knowledge of legalities but can we all get together and sue Volkswagen India for their mistake? The company gets away with committing fraud (I'm not aware that the Indian government is penalizing them), the government and automotive bodies seem to have lost interest and as for us consumers, we get stuck with duds. Whatever happened to the mantra "Customer is the king"?
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