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Old 2nd December 2015, 14:43   #16
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by Gannu_1 View Post
Do a dyno and simultaneously get the PUC done. If your car makes it through, no issues.
Haha - why should i deviate from the standard operating procedure of issuing the PUC :-)

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
I assume the ARAI check is against the BS III norms? If so interesting and disappointing to see that VW does not meet even these BS III norms which is still the standard for most of the country. For the Top 18 cities as I understand it is BS IV.

As per what I read online, the BS III standard is somewhat equivalent to what Europe had ~10 years back. The NOX limit in India for BS III is 0.5 g/km (0.18 g/km in top 14 cities that adopt BS-IV norms).
Slightly confused - if EA189 was not able to meet BS3/BS4 norms - how do they get the PUC after 1 year ? Is it due to the software where engine goes in defeat mode when stationary ?
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Old 2nd December 2015, 14:43   #17
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
I assume the ARAI check is against the BS III norms? If so interesting and disappointing to see that VW does not meet even these BS III norms which is still the standard for most of the country. For the Top 18 cities as I understand it is BS IV.

As per what I read online, the BS III standard is somewhat equivalent to what Europe had ~10 years back. The NOX limit in India for BS III is 0.5 g/km (0.18 g/km in top 14 cities that adopt BS-IV norms).
I had the exact same question. Is it the BS3 or BS4 norms that is being breached. If it is BS 4, then i don't think they can force (even legally) people whose cars are registered in BS3 cities. If it is not meeting even BS3 norms then God Save us all.

Also how can VW continue to sell cars with the same engine if they don't comply. So i suppose they will have to stop sales. So i am sure, the first thing they do will be to makes the changes in those and start sales. So these 'fresh' cars with the fix will give an idea of the impact of the fix on performance and efficiency.

On a lighter note, now when i drop-off my family at home i ask them to cross from the front and not the back

Last edited by Mohan Mathew A : 2nd December 2015 at 14:45.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 15:27   #18
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Since by virtue of the software revision the basic parameters of the car will be changed, I mean, the parameters based on which the car was bought, will be changed (like, the emissions, the driveability and the other technicals that might be involved) in the recall, I think the matter should be referred to the courts for BREACH OF TRUST and FRAUD.

The company has damaged its reputation, no doubt about that. But the customers who bought cars based on trust in Volkswagen need to be compensated by the company for defrauding them.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 16:15   #19
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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India = no such incentive as their sales are too little for VW HQ to be bothered.
VW india might not be. However, the concern should be for higher value brands like Audi and Porsche. VW is made to feel premium (non desi, its good for their marketing, remember Das Auto?) but VW does not bother much. But Audi and Porsche are different. VW HQ will need the brand equity here. While no Audi runs the 1.6, the 2.0 is present. Audi users don't like to be paid petty compensation, they don't bother about a few thousand rupees, what they will look for is any loss in power and subsequent low of prestige of owing a 'defective' or 'corrected/tinkered with' 30 L car. That would be the same worry that VW US would have that Audi/Porsche in India would have. BMW is breathing on the neck in this segment. How would Audi like to hear a customer who says 'I had been to the BMW showroom and they said, sir why buy the Audi XXX model in which the engine is being recalled and fixed for cheating v/s some BMW XXX model'.

A better managed compensation strategy will need to worked out for (if at all) for VW and Audi. Legal fines are a different thing, that will go to the Govt. the end users might not get any. At max VW might throw in a free checkup/service along with the recall.

What I would be interested is if VW will offer to extend the 4 year engine warranty from the date of defect fix. This is crucial. When the engine is fixed with a mechanical change its as good as a new engine, with change in the crucial mechanics. The original warranty is now void as the engine configuration is altered by VW. I would expect that VW extends the standard and the extended warranty on the engine at no extra cost.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 16:56   #20
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Would be so much fun when VW rectifies it and we have our TBHP members coming home and re-loading the original maps to restore any lost power.

While I understand the sentiment that VW cheated etc. I still think it's a great car to drive. Not once have I regretted buying the Vento and it's just all that I ever wanted in a highway run sedan. If the power drops, I am sure there will be boxes, chips and remaps available to get that sorted out. Yes, its not the original / base number but who cares. For an extra 30k, get a Pete's / RD and the fun is endless. And [*possibly] clean.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 16:58   #21
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

To all VW/Skoda owners who say that they would not get this recall done since it would lower the power/torque figures, from what i have seen and observed at VW/Skoda, a software update is applied to cars every time they come for service. Once they connect the vag com, it checks for an update and then the same is installed.

It is is really not in our hands, we may send the car for servicing and they will automatically apply the update unless you specifically instruct them not to do any software/firmware update. These updates keep coming every 6 months or so and carry improvements related to nvh etc.

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Originally Posted by man_and_machine View Post
I would expect that VW extends the standard and the extended warranty on the engine at no extra cost.
That would seriously be a dream considering how VW group works here in India. They will not be offering any thing like that. I would be amused if even Audi offers compensation or some thing like that. I have no trust on VW and would not be sending my car for this recall until technicals details are out on what this software update would to do to my engine figures.

Audi should atleast send a box of chocolates and an apology letter to its high end car customers (A6,A8) to apologize for their cheating.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 17:35   #22
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

What about the cars running a remap? Will the software upgrade wipe off the map? Since my car is out of warranty, i do not intend sending it to Skoda for service in any case.

The car is running so much better post the remap that i really don't want to lose it!

Rohan
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Old 2nd December 2015, 17:50   #23
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Even if the customer decides against going for a software fix, won't the guys at Skoda, VW and Audi do it on their own during service checks? That is even if we instruct them not to?
Is there really an escape for someone whose car is still in the warranty period?

Last edited by GTO : 3rd December 2015 at 12:43. Reason: Typo
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Old 2nd December 2015, 18:02   #24
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Since my car is out of warranty, i do not intend sending it to Skoda for service in any case.
The way that I see it, these are the different categories of owners.

- Don't care, car out of warranty. Odds are, a majority of these cars will never be fixed. VW offers a standard warranty of 2 years. Going by their sales numbers from Jan '14 onward, VW has less than 100,000 cars on the roads within warranty coverage today. In other words, a majority of the recalled cars are out of warranty coverage.

- Customer cares, car out of warranty or within (doesn't matter). The good Samaritan. Small number of owners will go out of the way, dedicatedly visit the VW workshop and get the fix.

- Don't care, car in warranty. Think of the non-car guys or chauffeur-driven owners. Whenever their car goes in for a service next, they'll get the software changes, but will remain oblivious to it.

- Car in warranty, worried about power loss. Team-BHPians . This is the category where all the concerned owners lie. If I paid VW 20 lakhs for a delicious 6-speed Jetta and - post correction - it loses that punch, I would be .
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Old 2nd December 2015, 18:10   #25
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Talking Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The way that I see it, these are the different categories of owners.

- Don't care, car out of warranty. Odds are, a majority of these cars will never be fixed. VW offers a standard warranty of 2 years. Going by their sales numbers from Jan '14 onward, VW has less than 100,000 cars on the roads within warranty coverage today. In other words, a majority of the recalled cars are out of warranty coverage.
That's the biggest dilemma, i care about the car and the environment alike.

I wont send it to Skoda for a service because they are over priced thugs and their service standards have been falling hopelessly. Till my 75k service, everything was done at Skoda (including wiper changes). I have now realized its better to use that extra money for upgrades and track day charges!

And knowing how they work, i wont be surprised if they actually don't do any update and say they have done it!

My only concern is the remap that i have just gotten done. The car is perfectly set up for my use. In D mode, it drives better than factory and is probably running cleaner too! Sports mode is a different story- wheel spin up to 3rd gear with ASR off!

Hence the predicament and chaos in my mind!

Rohan
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Old 2nd December 2015, 18:34   #26
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

So I just spoke to few of my colleagues who own Skoda's and VW's(I just booked a Vento tsi and was in touch with them on feedback).

No one is impacted and concerned, they all knew about it through papers and except one none other has plans to take car to service centre even if called. They were like if government is so concerned please do something about auto, taxis and lorries. No one will speak a word about them cos of political angle involved.

Where in everyone does agree that this is shameful at VW part, and trust is dented, none plans to change cars.

Its like selling roadside food is awesome, but the moment a bit if Msg is discovered in some random samples of Maggi entire world goes mad.

My personal stance around the topic is that I am taking the delivery of my car.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 19:04   #27
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Academic, but is it not contempt of law if you were offered a legal fix and you did not turn up will fully. Warranty is from the manufacturer is related to cost of repair/replacement and the indemnity on the customer to be covered for it. If you vehicle is out of warranty does it legally indemnify you not to go for corrections as mandated by law?

What is more interesting is the PUC that is issued to call cars that have a validity of 6 months. Should we say that all the 3.4 lakh cars got a BS IV certificate pan India where the NOx and CO2 where always in limits? This whole thing is a sham.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 21:03   #28
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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If you vehicle is out of warranty does it legally indemnify you not to go for corrections as mandated by law?
Legally yes. But legally in India is a funny term. Its not just flexible, is bendable, breakable, reshapeable and what not.

Its like the street corner emission test which will probably yield the same result before and after this correction and thats all the RTO may even need as evidence.

I am part of first category. Its MKV, 2010 model and i am not even thinking of taking it to service and even if i do i will take it to service centers where i know my mechanic and ensure they dont touch the software even if it has a recall.

And i am absolutely sure in few months after the installation there will be a after market software available to revert back things.

More than the physical modification suggested i think its the software control of power vs efficiency vs emission that will alter the engine dynamics.

And if they can fix it with a software, our german friends will un-fix it with a software upgrade.

I am not bothered that i will loser power and in fact i am waiting to start modifying the care like chetan did.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 04:24   #29
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
Unless either VW certifies there is no change in HP/Torque numbers or it pays me compensation - no way i will the engine touched. As far as emissions is concerned - if i am able to get the govt mandated PUC certificate - whats the issue ?
I'm guessing that VW India will do the software upgrade when the car is due for service whether one likes it or not.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 09:24   #30
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

VW closes in on approval for fixes for diesels in Europe

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The proposals for the three affected engines have been submitted to German motor vehicle agency KBA and have made a “positive” impression on regulators
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Germany is responsible for approving those vehicles in Europe, and the final go-ahead there would provide a template for a recall across the region
We will need to await the Indian authority on giving the go ahead for the VW submitted solution.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...sels-in-europe
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