Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd December 2015, 09:57   #31
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Rajeevraj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,119
Thanked: 7,231 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Looks like this issue is hitting sales badly. In Nov 2015 VW dispatches stood at just 1942 cars. They typically dispatch ~4000 units monthly.

Or have the stopped supply of the diesel cars until the fix is ratified and applied? No point delivering cars and then making them come back after a month.

In the big markets they can handle a drop in sales, but in the Indian market considering their numbers are already low, this can hit them badly. Dealers will be worried.
Rajeevraj is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2015, 10:12   #32
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ghaziabad
Posts: 973
Thanked: 663 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
- Car in warranty, worried about power loss. Team-BHPians . This is the category where all the concerned owners lie. If I paid VW 20 lakhs for a delicious 6-speed Jetta and - post correction - it loses that punch, I would be .
(RANT ALERT)

Agreed that Customers have been cheated and misled, but I do hope that this particular category i.e. Team-BHPians, will LEAD the way and DO THE RIGHT THING.
The RIGHT THING to do, in this regard, is to get the Correction from VW, with all the associated compromises.
Please go ahead and sue the company for compensation or whatever, but SET AN EXAMPLE.

(RANT OVER)
roy_libran is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2015, 11:00   #33
Senior - BHPian
 
the mole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 2,150
Thanked: 699 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

What will happen to the 1.9 TDI Skoda Laura? I don't see the 1.9 TDI engine in the list of recalls.
the mole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2015, 11:26   #34
BHPian
 
racer_ash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 422
Thanked: 409 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

I have a basic theory. VW says that their cars can detect when the cars go for a PUC test and they automatically turn their engines to Green mode. Does this apply when the cars undergo the customary once in 6 month PUC check at local petrol pumps and PUC vans. If it does, then the defeat device is a genius. If it doesnt and the PUC vans still do not detect unusually high pollution levels, then we have a problem. Either the PUC procedure employed by the honorable GOI a complete sham, or the PUC operators can simply manipulate excess reading to show cars to be compliant.

Big can of worms, I say.
racer_ash is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2015, 11:29   #35
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 160
Thanked: 153 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

I have a 2010 Vento which I guess will be recalled. Ofcourse I would hate the decrease in power output but on the other hand I don't want the country to suffer based on something done by an European brand. If Volkwagen is ready to offer some kind of compensation (maybe like free services for the next year or so), I would not even think twice about it.
kartavya is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2015, 11:29   #36
Senior - BHPian
 
aseem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,735
Thanked: 414 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

This article shows there would be a loss of 10% power on the 2.0 Tdi and more importantly its the torque curve that takes the biggest hit:

http://www.tflcar.com/2015/10/how-mu...-video-report/
aseem is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2015, 12:40   #37
Senior - BHPian
 
Tanveer_2558's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,474
Thanked: 1,748 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
This article shows there would be a loss of 10% power on the 2.0 Tdi and more importantly its the torque curve that takes the biggest hit:

http://www.tflcar.com/2015/10/how-mu...-video-report/
If they are actually going to reduce the power, I will not send my car in.
Just the other day i saw a tata sumo emitting out soo much smoke that car's behind could not see anything in the front! And it isn't the first instance i have seen such a scene, I am sure the tata sumo guy can provide a PUC aswell if asked upon
Tanveer_2558 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2015, 12:42   #38
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Noida/New Delhi
Posts: 379
Thanked: 694 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Considering that PUC tests in almost all parts of India are carried out in stationary vehicles, how does the ECU decide to switch the map? Every single time i have gotten the PUC done, not once has the agent asked me to rev the car (it wont beyond 2500 in any case). And if the readings are taken at idle, i would expect them to be same throughout! I am just not able to wrap my head around this!

More than the car(s), i think the way tests are carried out needs a serious overhaul!

Rohan

Last edited by RohanDheman : 3rd December 2015 at 12:43.
RohanDheman is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2015, 13:36   #39
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 8,885
Thanked: 13,136 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Volkswagen Group could face a penalty of Rs 32 crore for fitting emission-cheating software and devices in its cars sold in India.

Quote:
If we ascertain that the company was selling cars fitted with faulty or substandard quality devices then under section 182 A of Motor Vehicles Act, it could face a penalty of Rs 1,000 per car. The law mandates provision of penalty in such cases
The company is also likely to halt sales of some of its diesel cars till the time it complies with stated norms.

http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...nalty/50023022

Last edited by volkman10 : 3rd December 2015 at 13:37.
volkman10 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2015, 14:37   #40
Senior - BHPian
 
StarScream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Noida/Delhi
Posts: 1,238
Thanked: 623 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
This article shows there would be a loss of 10% power on the 2.0 Tdi and more importantly its the torque curve that takes the biggest hit:

http://www.tflcar.com/2015/10/how-mu...-video-report/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanveer_2558 View Post
If they are actually going to reduce the power, I will not send my car in.
Just the other day i saw a tata sumo emitting out soo much smoke that car's behind could not see anything in the front! And it isn't the first instance i have seen such a scene, I am sure the tata sumo guy can provide a PUC aswell if asked upon
This is not true for India. There will be no loss in power.

In the U.S., the cars switched off emissions tech such as diesel particulate filters to improve performance. That stuff isn't used in India anyhow, so there is nothing to switch on or off. Not to mention, our emissions tests aren't as stringent as the U.S. i.e. front wheels running, back wheels stationary etc. so the car can deduce it's being tested.

Frankly, if VW hadn't come clean, we'd have never known. They are just replacing the software with a clean version, not that the "dirty" version did anything here in the first place.
StarScream is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2015, 15:59   #41
Senior - BHPian
 
aseem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,735
Thanked: 414 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
This is not true for India. There will be no loss in power.

In the U.S., the cars switched off emissions tech such as diesel particulate filters to improve performance. That stuff isn't used in India anyhow, so there is nothing to switch on or off. Not to mention, our emissions tests aren't as stringent as the U.S. i.e. front wheels running, back wheels stationary etc. so the car can deduce it's being tested.

Frankly, if VW hadn't come clean, we'd have never known. They are just replacing the software with a clean version, not that the "dirty" version did anything here in the first place.
I disagree, if there will be no power loss in India then why would they install the cheat software to begin with?

Secondaly I think whenever you give your car for Service, VW Engineers would upgrade the ECU map anyways. So no one can escape the loss in power and drivability.
aseem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2015, 16:13   #42
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: PNQ, BHX
Posts: 16
Thanked: 21 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

So, just Rs. 32 cr for, at some extent, putting the lives of citizens of a country in danger? Specially at times when the VIP visits to discuss climate change and pollution may cost more than 10s of cr per visit?? I reckon there is more to this.
Ironhood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2015, 16:17   #43
Senior - BHPian
 
vinit.merchant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,060
Thanked: 813 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
I disagree, if there will be no power loss in India then why would they install the cheat software to begin with?
That is because they did not make a clean software in the first place and used the only software they had. Its not that they map separate ECU software for each country, especially seeing the numbers they were selling in India.

This is just one possible reason.

It is very much possible that their cars exceed even the archaic Indian norms by a big margin.
I do not think India has the tech to check the pollution of the car while on the go. A stationary car at the PUC will not produce as much pollution as when it is on the run.

Last edited by vinit.merchant : 3rd December 2015 at 16:19.
vinit.merchant is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2015, 16:39   #44
Senior - BHPian
 
StarScream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Noida/Delhi
Posts: 1,238
Thanked: 623 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
I disagree, if there will be no power loss in India then why would they install the cheat software to begin with?

Secondaly I think whenever you give your car for Service, VW Engineers would upgrade the ECU map anyways. So no one can escape the loss in power and drivability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
That is because they did not make a clean software in the first place and used the only software they had. Its not that they map separate ECU software for each country, especially seeing the numbers they were selling in India.

This is just one possible reason.

It is very much possible that their cars exceed even the archaic Indian norms by a big margin.
I do not think India has the tech to check the pollution of the car while on the go. A stationary car at the PUC will not produce as much pollution as when it is on the run.
Because, as vinit.merchant says, the software is standardized across the EA189 engine family, which in turn is sold around the world. They don't tweak it for each different market.

Simple test. The cheat software was made to switch off tech like DPF. Find me a diesel car in India with a DPF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhood View Post
So, just Rs. 32 cr for, at some extent, putting the lives of citizens of a country in danger? Specially at times when the VIP visits to discuss climate change and pollution may cost more than 10s of cr per visit?? I reckon there is more to this.
Every carmaker that sells diesel technology in India is playing with your life. The govt. is also playing with your life by not upgrading emission standards - who are you going to blame?
StarScream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2015, 17:10   #45
BHPian
 
sasi@8689's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 42
Thanked: 44 Times
Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post

I'll be surprised if even 1/3rd of VWs on our roads get their emissions corrected. Here are some details from the last scam (Chevrolet Tavera). The hit rate then was <20%:
Even if the owners of the vehicles don't turn up for the specific sessions, they can always do it as part of the scheduled service whenever a car visits them next. Agreed that it would take a longer time, but that's the best they can do, i guess. This would not have worked for chevy because Tavera, predominantly, is a commercial vehicle where most of the owners may not bother with scheduled services and that too at authorised centres.

Agreed on the driving part - would be interesting to see how much this rectification process alters the behaviour of their engines (particularly that strong torque)
sasi@8689 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Honda recalls 2.2 lakh cars (CR-V, Civic, City, Jazz) in India over faulty airbags Aditya The Indian Car Scene 132 18th June 2016 17:22
ARAI to test Volkswagen cars in India for emissions itwasntme The Indian Car Scene 16 4th October 2015 18:10
Nissan recalls 12,000 cars in India over faulty engine switch and airbags RavenAvi The Indian Car Scene 5 19th August 2015 13:42


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 01:10.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks