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Old 4th December 2015, 14:27   #61
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Govt to take penalty decision on Volkswagen case after IIT panel review.

Government will set up a committee of experts from IIT to look into Volkswagen's emission-test cheating case before deciding on any penalty.

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Road transport ministry will be forming a committee of IIT experts. The committee will be tasked to analyse and understand the VW issue and submit the findings to the ministry,
http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...dkari/50040761

Last edited by volkman10 : 4th December 2015 at 14:29.
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Old 4th December 2015, 15:53   #62
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

National Green Tribunal asks for ban of VW cars - http://www.motorbeam.com/2015/12/car...cars-in-india/

Penalty and problem rectifications seem the better way.

Last edited by KomS_CarLog : 4th December 2015 at 15:54.
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Old 4th December 2015, 17:19   #63
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

From the time we have got new government, asking for ban for everything is so IN. Don't understand why a call for ban is needed when the company has agreed and fixing things. Ya if the issue persists after that, please do ban, but screaming ban ban for everything is so pathetic.
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Old 4th December 2015, 17:29   #64
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by AtheK View Post
From the time we have got new government, asking for ban for everything is so IN. Don't understand why a call for ban is needed when the company has agreed and fixing things. Ya if the issue persists after that, please do ban, but screaming ban ban for everything is so pathetic.
NGT is not eh Govt to ban. Its a agency that has asked the govt to ban. I guess its valid to ask for a ban on sales. Its done in the US right now in states like California. There is a voluntary admission of guilt, so until its corrected a ban in completely logical. Remember, there is breach of trust from VW on this front. Mere admission on guilt does not immune from making further damage. What is the point in selling new cars with defective devices and recalling them later? VW should have voluntarily stopped sale of vehicles until a factory correction can be made for those that are delivered new.

A Ban is a reaction to on-compliance, which holds good in this case.

Even clever is not the ban, but the state RTOs should not allow registration until they have a clear directive from ARAI that the vehicles have cleared the necessary requirements. That way irrespective who wants to sell, who wants to buy the authory will not allow them on road until they set their act right.
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Old 4th December 2015, 17:45   #65
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Acc. to maharashtra RTO site

Quote:
3. The procedure for conducting the test shall be as below
Diesel Vehicles - Free Acceleration Method
The reading of pollution levels should be noted when the acceleration pedal is fully pressed. An average of five such readings should be taken as the final reading.
Petrol Vehicles - Idling Limits
The reading shall be noted when the vehicle is idling.
Now, the question is, the corner PUC-walla doesn't even know how to test vehicles properly. Not to mention un-maintained and uncalibrated machines that they use.

Few months ago, a friend and I took his MKV Jetta for PUC and surprisingly the readings very very low. So low that they barely were 0.xx . Now, suppose the govt forces the VW owner to supposedly fix his car, the owner can show previous PUC test results and claim that its not polluting.

How can the govt. tell us definitely that VW cars are polluting ? Just because VW said so themselves ? Shouldn't the govt. do actual testing that'll show pollution before and after the fix ?
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Old 4th December 2015, 17:50   #66
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by man_and_machine View Post
NGT is not eh Govt to ban. Its a agency that has asked the govt to ban. I guess its valid to ask for a ban on sales. Its done in the US right now in states like California. There is a voluntary admission of guilt, so until its corrected a ban in completely logical. Remember, there is breach of trust from VW on this front. Mere admission on guilt does not immune from making further damage. What is the point in selling new cars with defective devices and recalling them later? VW should have voluntarily stopped sale of vehicles until a factory correction can be made for those that are delivered new.

A Ban is a reaction to on-compliance, which holds good in this case.

Even clever is not the ban, but the state RTOs should not allow registration until they have a clear directive from ARAI that the vehicles have cleared the necessary requirements. That way irrespective who wants to sell, who wants to buy the authory will not allow them on road until they set their act right.
I tend to disagree on this particular context, setting there acts right, yes definitely, ban of vechiles nope. And how they do a ban if it has to come to that, is it a blanket ban on VW group, a ban on diesel vechiles. With this context they will probably need to ban other manufacturers too(if found guilty), I have seen tata and maruti emit black smoke from diesel cars, isn't that pollution also.

This topic involves many jobs too, so a good sensible discussion should be carried on, with probably huge penalties on manufacturer, why make the employees suffer.
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Old 4th December 2015, 19:19   #67
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by AtheK View Post
is it a blanket ban on VW group, a ban on diesel vechiles.

No, not a blanket ban. For those VW vehicles with engine types under EA 189.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtheK View Post
With this context they will probably need to ban other manufacturers too(if found guilty), I have seen tata and maruti emit black smoke from diesel cars, isn't that pollution also.
Like discussed elsewhere in the thread there is more than one type of pollution. Those that are visible, like the soot and smoke you mentioned that are usually covered under the precipitants category and NOx, CO2 etc that are not visible etc. Just because something is emitting black smoke does not mean it is polluting on all factors. Anyways, it found guilty all those should be prevented from sales until rectified (ban is one way).

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This topic involves many jobs too, so a good sensible discussion should be carried on, with probably huge penalties on manufacturer, why make the employees suffer.
This is not a logical reason. jobs can't be a holding factor for letting the manufacturer have a free run. Here its not just the employees but also the supplier/dependent network at risk. But then, there is very little you can do. Its similar to filing for bankruptcy for financial reasons,the same method can be applied.

But this taking this off topic. What is important is not if the vehicle is banned from sale or not. What is crucial is what are the measures taken to address consumer confidence. If consumer confidence erodes away, then ban or not the vehicle will not see the roads. For the fence sitters this is very confusing. "to buy or not to buy is the question".
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Old 5th December 2015, 10:48   #68
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwasp View Post
Acc. to maharashtra RTO site



Now, the question is, the corner PUC-walla doesn't even know how to test vehicles properly. Not to mention un-maintained and uncalibrated machines that they use.

Few months ago, a friend and I took his MKV Jetta for PUC and surprisingly the readings very very low. So low that they barely were 0.xx . Now, suppose the govt forces the VW owner to supposedly fix his car, the owner can show previous PUC test results and claim that its not polluting.

How can the govt. tell us definitely that VW cars are polluting ? Just because VW said so themselves ? Shouldn't the govt. do actual testing that'll show pollution before and after the fix ?
Isn't that what the cheat is all about!
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Old 5th December 2015, 11:08   #69
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by satya180 View Post
Isn't that what the cheat is all about!
No. The pollution testing setups itself are big scam in India and much bigger cheat than what VW has done. They don't test pollution, rather not capable of.

VW cheat code is much more skilled that it can defeat much more capable pollution testing equipment which test vehicles for longer duration by running it on dyno.

Last edited by tbppjpr : 5th December 2015 at 11:11.
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Old 5th December 2015, 11:18   #70
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by KomS_CarLog View Post
National Green Tribunal asks for ban of VW cars - http://www.motorbeam.com/2015/12/car...cars-in-india/

Penalty and problem rectifications seem the better way.
NGT as I said before is a bunch of retired government officials who feel restless that they have no importance left, hence they come out with hare brained Hitlerian schemes of bans and governmental control. Their intentions seem genuine, but their methods need a lot of refinement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by satya180 View Post
Isn't that what the cheat is all about!
Volkswagen cheat system was designed to beat sophisticated testing methods like the UK MOT etc, to ensure that no matter what the emissions released would be within limits. Indian PUC testing which involves putting a meter probe in a idling engine exhaust will ensure even a 50 year old rattly bus/truck passes all kinds of norms.
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Old 7th December 2015, 13:41   #71
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

I drive a 2013 Vento TDI.

Based on VW's statement, my car will be fitted with a flow-transformer and the software will be updated.

As they are adding a "flow-transformer" (which is primarily an unwanted component) how will the warranty of that component be covered?
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Old 7th December 2015, 15:44   #72
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by Srikanthan View Post
how will the warranty of that component be covered?
If you read below this is exactly the question I had too. For those who had purchased the 2 year extra warranty this is a bigger issue. There are no details yet from VW on this.
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Old 7th December 2015, 22:45   #73
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

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Originally Posted by Srikanthan View Post
Based on VW's statement, my car will be fitted with a flow-transformer and the software will be updated.

As they are adding a "flow-transformer" (which is primarily an unwanted component) how will the warranty of that component be covered?
VW India is conducting a voluntary recall and updating cars to EU technical updates to be on par.

VW India website itself states its engine doesn't violate BS IV norms and aren't fitted with defeat device. So as a Volkswagen owner, we shouldn't be worried about our car having higher pollution level then allowed as per law.

VW Current Customer Information

2.0 TDi shall only have a software update.

1.6 TDi shall be fitted with a flow transformer and software updated to latest one.

Why need for flow transformer in 1.6 TDi only?
Reason being, 2.0 TDi already had a flow transformer built in its MAF sourced from BOSCH. 1.6 TDi MAF sourced from Continental doesn't have a flow transformer. Since flow transformer helps in better performance, thats why its being fitted.

More info.

Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud-mafsensors.jpg
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Old 8th December 2015, 16:10   #74
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Default Re: Official: Volkswagen recalls 3.24 lakh cars in India over emissions fraud

In the "highly polluting" list VW cars probably come in the bottom after all the trucks, buses, tempos, vans, Cabs that never get serviced. But owners of those vehicles have their "vote banks", "associations", "nexus with politicians" so they will never be asked to comply to any standards.

There is no strategy from Govt that can be applied to "all vehicles" based on a pollution index.
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Old 8th December 2015, 21:55   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post
VW India is conducting a voluntary recall and updating cars to EU technical updates to be on .



More info.



Attachment 1447940

Thanks for the link. The article states that adding a flow transformer and remapping the engine may affect reliability, which is probably the reason why VW didn't apply this method earlier. Could this be correct? With so much attention on this issue any reliability issues post these rectifications could pose a bigger pitfall for VW.
I just hope it's not the case and I also wish VW was more categorical in its statement. The current statements by VW India are too diplomatic and not giving any concrete info to the customers.
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