Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th December 2015, 00:59   #136
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NOIDA
Posts: 12
Thanked: 2 Times
Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

I'm curious as to how hard it could be (practically and financially) to add a bicycle rack to a bus. If it was not too far fetched to do so, I would gladly take my cycle to work rather than my car. Maybe it could help me lose some weight from my body rather than my wallet! Wishful thinking but to make it happen, probably the bus frequency would have to be better as well.
Don't get me wrong, I love my car! But there are several days when driving in traffic annoys me to such an extent that I feel that we people do not deserve to drive or even walk on the roads with the entitled way that we use it.
If this ban/ odd even policy actually works, kudos to the men in power. If it does not, well, alternatives would need to come quickly.
To be very honest, I want the the bans and formulas to come in place but i would rather that it would not apply just to me! Imagine being able to drive 50kms to and fro from work and drive only an hour both ways with 20+ mileage!! Sadly for my fantasy, that ain't gonna happen. No offense intended at anyone gentlemen.
I don't mind doing my bit for the city that much though really. I just hope there is an amicable conclusion to this entire situation.
RaghuSuresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2015, 06:02   #137
Distinguished - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 7,694
Thanked: 4,637 Times
Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

Quote:
Originally Posted by vagu View Post
Hey Rdhawan, I understand your point. But controlling population is not the right way. Tokyo Beijing and other big cities have 15M population and still they are pollution free or managing it. Plus immigrants add to economy. What I do agree is that govt needs create more centres of economy other than 4-5 big cities.

Denying anybody a right to move to Delhi is just wrong on so many levels. My family moved to delhi 100 years ago so that does not give me the right to stop people moving in delhi now. Also, this influx of immigration has habilitated and developed Delhi. Before 1910 delhi was not even among the big cities of North let alone India. All big cities of the world are based on immigration NY, London, Berlin, Paris, Bejing,Tokyo.
I completely wholeheartedly agree with this post.

We need more cities or satellite townships, properly connected with good infrastructure.
Sadly we suffer from "siege" mentality which causes us to "flock together" as it were.
Other than Lavasa which is far off from any other town and therefore, slightly cut off, I don't think that we have built even one proper city after Independence. Yes, Chandigarh was a "designed" and "planned" city, but this is the only one of its kind.

Yes, all the biggest cities of this World were completely based on immigration and as an Indian, I would certainly object to anyone telling me that I can't move freely across my own country!

Saying all this, I also agree with the point made earlier in the thread, that we who live in cities, would benefit from cleaner fuels which cause less emissions. Even to the point of paying more for such fuel. I will gladly embrace this.

I would however, also submit that there needs to be price parity across all urban centres. No more of this nonsense about low priced fuel and lower tax structures for vehicles and so on, in Union Territories! Why should Delhi residents get the benefit of lower taxes and lower prices on fuel, than the rest of urban India?
shankar.balan is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2015, 07:42   #138
Senior - BHPian
 
sourabhzen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: GURGAON
Posts: 1,423
Thanked: 1,155 Times
Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragavsr View Post
The exceptions here seem to apply for 75% of the population.( Assuming 50% women population overall + half of the men allowed to drive ) . The exceptions seem to be bigger than the rule.

Tough luck if u have two vehicles of the same sequence.

The other measures seem to be not getting proper importance . That is what I am trying to highlight.

If this ban on 2000cc and above is only for 3 months, its even more funny!

What will stop people from using the so called luxurious and polluting diesel vehicles next winter if the ban is temporary?


I can empathize.

I would support a wholesome ban on diesel cars than this tamasha.

What would stop people from registering vehicles in other states?.
Other measures, though not being importance, well have higher impact on pollution control that 2000 cc car rule.
These three months are the coldest and most dangerous due to particulate matter. Most elderly people suffer slot during this time, hence temporary ban during this time. Permanent measures will follow.
The ban is in NCR, so Gurgaon and Noida are covered. Now, only desperate person will get it registered in other state. I won't. I can easily get it registered in UP but well wait for the months and then decide. There must be many more like me.
sourabhzen is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2015, 08:17   #139
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 99
Thanked: 75 Times
Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

Fuel Quality Checks at Petrol Pumps.

I doubt that will ever happen. For the suppliers are public sector undertakings - anything in public sector is sacrosanct and unquestionable.They can't do anything wrong because they are 'Govt. of India Enterprise'

And the petrol pump owners themselves are influential people - that's why they got the dealership in first place. Has 'amicus curiae' pointed this to Supreme Court? I doubt. In any case after IOC's Manjunath's murder on inspection of a petrol pump, who would seriously do quality checks at petrol pump?

Oh, but its so easy to ban something with just one flourish of a pen stroke!

Last edited by DwarkaDelhiWala : 18th December 2015 at 08:38.
DwarkaDelhiWala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2015, 08:55   #140
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 157
Thanked: 149 Times
Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

Beijing is shut down again today due to pollution.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ert-smog-china


And there are folks who still think we are not going through an 'environmental emergency'.

If world chooses to go electric, the conversion costs won't be a fraction of what it would cost us to clean the environment damage 20 years from now.
hkollar is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2015, 09:37   #141
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Delhi
Posts: 25
Thanked: 20 Times
Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

A major step which has been missed out is sensitizing public and private organisations (for this ban as well as for the odd-even rule).

A salaried person (like most of us) does what he does due to the pressures of his job requirements. Putting pressure on him while not taking organisations in the loop to make accommodations such as flexible timings, work from home, etc. is an incomplete step. It gives a feeling that the government is trying to take the easy way out.
shekatkar31 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2015, 09:47   #142
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 78
Thanked: 76 Times
Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

Desperate times, desperate measures!

But I believe all these decisions have been taken in haste and without proper analysis.

We see so many autos, RX 100s, old Bajaj Chetaks etc. everyday that smoke heavily. Why doesn't the police catch hold of them, seize the vehicles and cancel the RC?
Car-go-man is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2015, 10:03   #143
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 130
Thanked: 43 Times
Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

The most stringent air pollution control guidelines of california are worth studying on their website;
Their approach requires training of drivers of trucks, stringent pollution checks, classification of emission in terms of particulate matters and smog.
check: http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/veh-e...-emissions.htm
particularly . There are legal requirement for the following;
1. Idling
2. emission control labels
3. inspection etc.
I am attaching the multirule information brochure for reading.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf multirule.pdf (116.1 KB, 166 views)

Last edited by bullock-Car : 18th December 2015 at 10:07. Reason: url for vehicle emission comprehensive added
bullock-Car is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2015, 10:56   #144
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 6,695
Thanked: 3,132 Times
Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

With us the technical expertise of courts is zilch. Even if you are a Sicence or Engineering grad from 30 years ago it does not count. Amicus Curae are equally 'competent'. Advice comes from activists which is what leads to this sort of a knee jerk reaction and chaos. Having a government which is too much into PR gestures also does not help.

We need a competent Environmental advisory panel dedicated to automotive, with the courage and guts to act. If our fuels were of the legal standard will we be having myriad threads here on 'best fuel bunks in xyz'.
sgiitk is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2015, 11:00   #145
kat
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 30
Thanked: 47 Times
Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

Quote:
Originally Posted by Car-go-man View Post
Desperate times, desperate measures!
Exactly. What was the SC or the Delhi Government doing so long? I assume that the pollution levels of Delhi didn't go up to hazardous levels overnight. Instead of taking desperate measures, there should have been a planned, phased manner in implementing proper, feasible, long term measures which should have started once the pollution levels started rising (maybe around 5-10 years back).
Well, the mindset in developing countries is to only "Cry (and subsequently ban) after spilling milk"
kat is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2015, 11:34   #146
Newbie
 
palsaumik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 24
Thanked: 23 Times
Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

My brother works with Bosch and I have heard him say that Bosch GmBH claims that diesel is cleaner than petrol. I have no data to substantiate this but if this is actually so, then why all this fuss?
palsaumik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2015, 11:42   #147
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 165
Thanked: 153 Times
Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

Quote:
Originally Posted by vagu View Post
Hey Rdhawan, I understand your point. But controlling population is not the right way. Tokyo Beijing and other big cities have 15M population and still they are pollution free or managing it. Plus immigrants add to economy. What I do agree is that govt needs create more centres of economy other than 4-5 big cities.

Denying anybody a right to move to Delhi is just wrong on so many levels. My family moved to delhi 100 years ago so that does not give me the right to stop people moving in delhi now. Also, this influx of immigration has habilitated and developed Delhi. Before 1910 delhi was not even among the big cities of North let alone India. All big cities of the world are based on immigration NY, London, Berlin, Paris, Bejing,Tokyo.
You misunderstood the point. The point I am trying to make is that the migration into Delhi has not come with the required upgradation of infrastructure. This has resulted in ill-planned increase in the number of people on the roads and the number of unauthorized colonies.

And, the populist Governments have only made the issue more drastic by allowing uncontrolled growth of re-settlement and unauthorized colonies.

Why should the Government not plan to:

a) improve and expand road infrastructure
b) lay down cycling infrastructure within the city
c) improve carriage carrying capacity on Metro and over flyovers

I mean there are hundreds of things that can be done or could have been done. But, first the Government does nothing. Then, in order to show to the WHO and UN that we care for the citizens, they come up with decisions that betray all logic and reasoning.

Tell me, why is that suddenly Delhi's pollution has become a news item? It is because Beijing has taken emergency steps to control smog and pollution. Being the most polluted city, how could Delhi Government not take any action?

I am all for improving air quality in Delhi and other parts of the country. However, we all know what is the main source of pollution and why the successive Governments choose to look in an altogether different direction while targeting pollution.

Adulterated diesel, poorly maintained trucks, 2-wheelers and dust on the roads. Even a 5 year old could list these and IIT Kanpur study already proves and lists the main sources of pollution.

What we will end up with is a few days worth of news reporting and a pat on the back of Government for earning some brownie points in International media. Then, all will be forgotten until next December when smog in Beijing makes headlines and Delhi Government comes up with its own plans to be in media cynosure.

Last edited by rdhawan15 : 18th December 2015 at 11:43.
rdhawan15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2015, 11:59   #148
BHPian
 
batterylow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Driver seat!
Posts: 548
Thanked: 576 Times
Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

Quote:
Originally Posted by palsaumik View Post
My brother works with Bosch and I have heard him say that Bosch GmBH claims that diesel is cleaner than petrol. I have no data to substantiate this but if this is actually so, then why all this fuss?
Less CO2, yes.
But at the cost of more particulate matter.
Quote:
Although diesel cars obtain 25 to 35 percent better mileage and emit less carbon dioxide than similar gasoline cars, they can emit 25 to 400 times more mass of particulate black carbon and associated organic matter ("soot") per kilometer [mile]. The warming due to soot may more than offset the cooling due to reduced carbon dioxide emissions over several decades, according to Mark Z. Jacobson, associate professor of civil and environmental engineering at Stanford University.
Source
batterylow is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2015, 13:00   #149
Senior - BHPian
 
carwatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bardez, Goa
Posts: 1,121
Thanked: 883 Times
Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

How many of us seriously believe that the dust on roads can be curbed by any method, I mean any. I personally believe that I won't be seeing it happening in my lifetime.

The fact is we will remain manufacturing hubs like China for all developed countries and all this pollution is a by-product of that.

WRT CNG buses I remember very well that the Air quality of Delhi did actually improved and the ban on private Diesel cars has been demanded by many agencies since very long time (>15 years). If Diesel is not a big polluter then why are they demanding ban on it and why has pollution increased many fold.

Its good for any business. First pay premium by way of cost difference for buying Diesel cars, then drive them more with the false sense of cost saving, then pay for treatment of diseases generated by such pollution, we humans are really funny.

If one looks at it, its not the Govt, the politicians are responsible for everything.

Flyover under construction for long time, reason for delay are either contract being awarded to some company owned by politician or the construction is opposed by the rival leader for some 400-500 votes, who pays for it, us, who pays for delay, us, who pays for cost overruns, us.

I read a post mentioning common sense, I firmly believe that the odd-even rule is most common sensical, simple and east to follow, solution.

I am ready to follow it, I want to follow it but still won't follow it because others are taking advantage of it and I feel like a loser, fool, cheated, conned, etc. This mentality will take us where we are today. We can proud ourselves in having the Most Polluted city in the world tag.

For a start, we can atleast opt for car ban once a week based on car numbers ending with 1,2 on Monday, 3,4 on Tuesday as mentioned in Manila.
carwatcher is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2015, 13:27   #150
RSR
Distinguished - BHPian
 
RSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,495
Thanked: 3,637 Times
Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
Other measures, though not being importance, well have higher impact on pollution control that 2000 cc car rule.
These three months are the coldest and most dangerous due to particulate matter. Most elderly people suffer slot during this time, hence temporary ban during this time. Permanent measures will follow.
The ban is in NCR, so Gurgaon and Noida are covered. Now, only desperate person will get it registered in other state. I won't.
Well said! I think so many folks are just jumping in to comment, without going through the gist of the SC order, or even without knowing who it was who gave these directions. It's actually quite hilarious to see people blaming the government (of Delhi, I presume) in the temporary three-month ban on diesel passenger vehicles with >2000cc engines.

It's not just >2000cc diesel engines, by the way. From Team-BHP's homepage article:

Quote:
The court is not letting buyers of smaller diesel cars get away lightly either. It has decided to impose a one-time pollution tax on such vehicles in the coming year.

The court has fixed a hearing on January 5, 2016 to decide the amount of tax to be levied on diesel vehicles having engines smaller than 2,000cc.
Having said that, I think the Delhi government should give up its highly impractical proposed odd-even formula. It just would not work in an unruly and corrupt country like India. And unlike these measures by the SC, which do NOT affect even a single existing (private) vehicle owner/user, the odd-even formula would affect a whole load of existing white-board vehicle owners/users.

The SC is taking a lot of steps that are targeting the root cause of pollution (by particulate matter & obnoxious, carcinogenic fumes) in Delhi. This is highly welcome, even if it's a much delayed move!

Let's face it. Delhi is facing such a severe pollution crisis that it prompted the Delhi HC to call it a "gas chamber". There is no way any government in India is going to act unless it's prodded to do so by the judiciary in a situation like this.

I hope this long list of important measures by the SC is able to bring back some sanity to Delhi's poisonous environment.

I heartily appreciate your stance in supporting these measures to reduce pollution, despite one such measure personally preventing you from buying a vehicle of your choice! This is like a breath of fresh air on this thread (pun very much intended!) where we have so many comments from those outside Delhi and those who will not be affected in any way crying foul over these much neeeded measures, instead of crying foul over the shockingly filthy air that Delhiites are being forced to breathe this winter.

How can the order be implemented in Gurgaon & Noida? Aren't they a part of neighbouring states in terms of jurisdiction, RTOs, etc.?

Last edited by RSR : 18th December 2015 at 13:52.
RSR is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban darklord The Indian Car Scene 280 2nd December 2016 15:46
Supreme Court bans pressure / musical / multi-sound Horns darklord The Indian Car Scene 29 20th July 2016 18:25
Supreme Court bans tourism in core areas of Tiger reserves across the country gauravdgr8 Shifting gears 26 17th October 2012 14:02
Car tints banned by HC! EDIT: Supreme Court bans all kinds of sunfilms in cars kpzen The Indian Car Scene 2687 14th June 2012 16:26


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 03:53.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks