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Old 23rd December 2015, 22:10   #181
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

Mahindra to Refund Booking Amount to Customers Affected by Delhi Diesel Ban

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Mahindra and Mahindra will refund booking amounts to all customers in Delhi who are set to purchase new diesel SUVs which come under the recently-imposed Supreme Court ban. The move comes after India's top court banned the registration of new diesel-powered vehicles above 2000cc from January 1, 2015 till March 31, 2016 in an attempt to tackle the alarming levels of pollution in the national capital.

The Indian carmaker added that the affected customers who have placed orders for these SUVs will be given options to purchase cars in the sub-2000cc range, such as the Mahindra TUV300. There is hope for dealers as well as they will be provided with alternatives such as relocating those vehicles to adjoining regions.

The company already exports a variant of the Scorpio with a 2.2-litre MPFI turbocharged petrol unit from India, but has not introduced it in the country, considering the fact that there is no demand for a petrol SUV.
SOURCE: http://auto.ndtv.com/news/mahindra-t...el-ban-1257951
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Old 23rd December 2015, 23:32   #182
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Just see how confusing is the pollution data in India.

http://scroll.in/article/775685/cars...lhis-pollution
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Old 30th December 2015, 18:54   #183
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Default Re: SUV Registrations Banned in Delhi NCR !

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Originally Posted by greatgyan View Post
This sentence has left me sort of confused, does it imply that any diesel vehicle over 2000c engine capacity is banned while those below 2000cc can run?

Or, apart from the ones over 2000cc, there'll be a separate list of cars referred to as "luxury diesel cars" which are banned irrespective of their engine capacity.
I think what the court implies is that all cars above 2000cc are luxury vehicles and diesel ones need to be banned. I don't get the logic either.
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Old 31st December 2015, 15:59   #184
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

Recent study conducted by IIT Kanpur has found presence of PAH (Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons) and PM2.5 (Particulate Matter of size<2.5) at alarming levels in Delhi's air. I guess we'll see many newer laws flowing in and stern enforcement of the existing ones for a better pollution control.

Source: Indiatoday
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Old 3rd January 2016, 19:52   #185
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

This New york times article highlights the inherent flaws in Europe's push towards diesel in the last decade or so and how it is inherently much more polluting than petrol.
"Diesel exhaust is laden with insidious soot particles, the so-called PM 2.5 (particulate matter smaller than 2.5 microns, or one-thirtieth the width of a human hair), which allow carcinogens to penetrate deep into tissues and organs. In other words, a driver who steps on the accelerator of a diesel car may be filling the lungs of nearby pedestrians, cyclists, infants in strollers and other drivers with potentially deadly particulate matter."
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/op...smtyp=cur&_r=0
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Old 4th January 2016, 19:02   #186
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

Mahindra, Toyota, Mercedes move Supreme Court against diesel ban
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/auto/st.../1/561783.html

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The Supreme Court will hear a plea on Tuesday by automobile manufacturers seeking modification of its order prohibiting the sale and registration of diesel vehicles with an engine capacity of 2000cc and above.

An apex court bench headed by Chief Justice T. S. Thakur on Monday said the matter would be heard on Tuesday after senior counsel Abhishek Manu Singhvi, Kapil Sibal and Gopal Subramaniam appearing for the automobile manufacturers Mahindra & Mahindra, Mercedes and Toyota sought modification of its December 16, 2015 order prohibiting the sale and registration of diesel vehicles above a 2000 cc engine capacity.


Moreover, the petition says they are doing service to common people by selling diesel-fueled vehicles.The Supreme Court had issued a ban on registration of any new diesel cars in the capital and NCR region till March 31, 2016 to curb dangerously high levels of pollution. The SC also said that only CNG-run taxis will be allowed to ply in Delhi and NCR during this period.

The court has imposed the ban in the wake of alarming air pollution during the winter season.
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Old 4th January 2016, 23:47   #187
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Default Re: SUV Registrations Banned in Delhi NCR !

Courts should not exist in space of legislation. Courts do not have wherewithal to decide public policy. But courts have to step in when legislative body fails. With experiments such as odd/even legislative body can barely succeed. I believe that the solutions lies in enforcing pollution control. Also, ideas such as carbon pricing should be explored.
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Old 5th January 2016, 05:48   #188
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

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Originally Posted by neeld View Post
The Supreme Court today banned the registration of diesel SUVs and cars above 2000cc in the national capital till March 31, saying the decision will not affect the common man.

The top court also ruled that commercial vehicles registered before 2005, which are not Delhi bound, will not be allowed to enter the national capital through entry points NH-8 and NH-1.......

For full news please see below link:

http://www.ndtv.com/delhi-news/regis...-lateststories
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Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
They will just register in neighbouring states and drive in Delhi. The decision makers in all their wisdom, have not banned private diesel vehicles with 2L + engines registered elsewhere from entering Delhi. Now the revenue will go elsewhere, while Delhi will remain as polluted as now. Wonder why they are not able to see this and address the pollution problem, rather than coming up with such knee-jerk reactions.
Good observation PatchyBoy.
The ruling from the Supreme Court is in the wake of some petitions. The court has not ruled on their own. So I wonder why the petitioners did not consider this aspect while drafting the petition.

Last edited by Rahul Bhalgat : 5th January 2016 at 05:50.
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Old 5th January 2016, 18:26   #189
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Default Re: SUV Registrations Banned in Delhi NCR !

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Originally Posted by rahulsnh View Post
Courts should not exist in space of legislation. Courts do not have wherewithal to decide public policy. But courts have to step in when legislative body fails. With experiments such as odd/even legislative body can barely succeed. I believe that the solutions lies in enforcing pollution control. Also, ideas such as carbon pricing should be explored.
I agree. Instead of targeting engine size, authorities should target exhaust pollution/km or some other relevant parameter. Tax higher polluting vehicles more and ban vehicles that exceed the limits.

Bit by bit registering a new vehicle in Uttarakhand (UK) is become extremely lucrative. On one hand they are not registering >2000CC Diesels in Delhi, on the other hand road tax + parking tax + new pollution tax makes registration in Delhi at least three times that of UK. So for a 30L diesel the saving on tax itself can buy an Alto (1.43L vs 3.41L).

As it is difficult to ban vehicles registered in other States, buyers will now get their vehicles registered elsewhere and drive in Delhi.
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Old 5th January 2016, 19:41   #190
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

Who knows if they come out with some kind of Entry Tax for outside State ( NCR ) vehicles similar to what they have for commercial vehicles , I am not aware if lawyers of affected manufacturers got enough opportunity to represent with facts today or were they even ready with technical data ?

Coming to facts , does anyone know how much is actual difference in emissions from Mercedes 4 cylinder Diesel vs Maruti 4 cylinder Petrol or even their own Petrol engine or how do they compare with smaller capacity Diesel engines say with 1,3 ltr Fiat engine ?

Edit :: Even SC has asked similar questions

The court directed the car manufacturers to prove that their diesel cars with engines above 2000cc pollute equal to petrol vehicles and to prove their claims through documents. The Court agreed to hear the plea of automobile manufacturers seeking lifting of ban on diesel-run vehicles of more than 2000cc upon production of documentary evidence that their cars pollute less or equal to the petrol cars.

Last edited by Turbanator : 5th January 2016 at 19:48.
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Old 5th January 2016, 20:02   #191
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Who knows if they come out with some kind of Entry Tax for outside State ( NCR ) vehicles similar to what they have for commercial vehicles.
Well, definitely they can and probably they will. But the real question is whether that is pragmatic? Is pollution going to come down after taxing, on top of plentiful exemptions? Already, Delhi is awaiting Sankranti to relieve them of odd/even.

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Coming to facts , does anyone know how much is actual difference in emissions from Mercedes 4 cylinder Diesel vs Maruti 4 cylinder Petrol or even their own Petrol engine or how do they compare with smaller capacity Diesel engines say with 1,3 ltr Fiat engine ?
Agree! This is the type of question we should be asking? When our legislatures can afford panel to investigate betting in cricket, why can't they have one to form policy on pollution? Why go for expedient solutions to only those cities which have exceeded limits by multiples - I'm sure there are streets in smaller towns where multiples are far worse!
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Old 5th January 2016, 23:07   #192
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

Looks like the ban is staying until documentary evidence is furnished by Toyota, Mahindra and Mercedes.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/50451059.cms

http://www.hindustantimes.com/cities...ZPOo39JJJ.html

http://www.ndtv.com/delhi-news/do-yo...toyota-1262350
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Old 6th January 2016, 18:04   #193
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Default Delhi: Ban on diesel cars over 2,000cc upheld by SC

As an after effect of the Supreme Court of India's order to ban diesel vehicles with an engine capacity larger than 2,000cc for 3 months in Delhi, Mahindra, Mercedes-Benz and Toyota moved the court to protect their businesses.

The Supreme Court upheld its ruling to ban the sale of diesel cars in Delhi till March 31, 2016. The court has agreed to hear pleas filed by the carmakers and has asked them to provide documentary evidence which shows a comparison between the levels of pollution caused by their diesel vehicles and petrol vehicles.

The petitioners claim that their vehicles contribute less than 0.2% of the total pollution in the region.

The court has also banned the entry of heavy commercial vehicles (not bound for Delhi) from NH 2, 10, 58 and state highway 57. Earlier, trucks not bound for Delhi were restricted entry through NH 1 and 8. Those CVs that are Delhi-bound will be allowed to enter the city after being charged a pollution cess.

The Delhi government has been directed by the court to appropriately issue No Objection Certificates (NOCs) for 10-year old diesel and 16-year old petrol vehicles to be sold outside the NCR.

Additionally, the Centre has been asked to replace all government diesel vehicles which are over five years old.

Source: The Times of India
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Old 6th January 2016, 18:33   #194
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR:EDIT lifted with 1% cess

Not sure if this will make much difference. Number of diesel vehicles added per month will not be huge as compared to existing vehicle number. And if they are banning, why the ban on just engines above 2000 CC, why not ban the entire diesel range. I have seen some Indicas releasing greater level of smokes than any of the higher CC cars/SUVs. Short sighted move in my opinion.
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Old 7th January 2016, 07:34   #195
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If a judge of the honorable spend court makes a comment like "are your cars emitting oxygen", one can see how much scientific evidence is being considered. Percentage wise, two wheelers and trucks contribute to more pollution than cars as a whole (irrespective of petrol or diesel). Top polluter is dust in general (raked-up by sweeping), construction activities, burning of garbage and fires lit for other reasons. Without a sound scientific reasoning and knee jerk reactions, that force people to shift to cars fueled by comparatively less fuel efficient engines, it will ultimately only add to costs for people and nation in general. I'm not sidelining health concerns. If all cars being sold currently are legal, their sales cannot be banned suddenly. How can sales of cars passing the BS IV criteria, set by the government only, be banned suddenly, unless there is a change in the policy or rules backed by scientific evidence and reasoning. There can be stricketer norms enforced with a short time frame. But that cannot be done. Why? Because the government controls oil companies will need to make a huge investment to be able to produce even BS IV compliant fuel for the whole country. I'm not even talking about BSV or VI.

We have three cars in the family with manufacturing years ranging from 2010 to 2015 and all are BS IV compliant. Today if I want to replace a vehicle, do I have a choice of a BS V vehicle? No. How can you blame the consumers and manufacturers (who are ready to produce BS V compliant vehicles), when there is no compliant fuel available for them. For more than five years, no effort has been made to move from BS IV to BS V, and now there is suddenly talk of leapfrogging to BS VI by 2020. So for 10 years (2010-2020) we are stuck at BS IV (BS III in case of many cities), and the blame is on manufacturers!?

Initial scientific results point to no significant reduction in pollution because of the odd even rule in Delhi. Now what?
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