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Old 16th December 2015, 17:43   #46
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR

First of all we should have Diesel quality improved rather than focusing on the "intolerant" way of Banning.

With due respect to Judiciary, why are they not bothered to force the PSU giants in adopting to a better quality of fuel ?

Now if there are 6 people to travel then there needs to be 2 cars running the same route burning more Diesel and polluting more than a Single 2.0 L plus Diesel vehicle.
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Old 16th December 2015, 17:44   #47
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR

I agree with the ruling but not totally on the account of pollution... anyway a lot has been said on that topic and am sure will be a lot more.

I am against the fact that people buying luxury diesel cars are running them on subsidized fuel. There has to be a way to differentiate subsidized diesel from regular diesel such that this misuse stops. Why should the common man pay taxes to subsidize someone running his E / S / 5 / 7 / etc on subsidized fuel! Although this guy won't probably even blink to put petrol in his car, there can be steps to ensure it happens.

The "GiveItUp" for LPG cylinders was an amazing move and I hope something can be done about diesel as well. I believe this ruling might just pave the way for this to happen and play a role in reducing the tax burdens on the aam-aadmi.

Last edited by avdhesh15 : 16th December 2015 at 17:49.
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Old 16th December 2015, 17:45   #48
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Default Re: SC's ban on diesels with >2,000 cc capacity in Delhi

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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
CO2 is also a gas released by you and me. We are talking about serious pollutants that consists of heavy particles poisonous for health.
I take your point and I just mentioned CO2 because its one of the major contributors to global warming. There are various other pollutants and if we look at the Euro norms they specify levels for CO, NOx etc and also particulate matter. Also the norms are different for both petrol and diesels. Considering that Bharat norms emulate what the Euro norms say, I will be surprised if that is not the case here in India. So the point I want to make is that its better to drive stringent emission norms rather than impose a blanket ban on cubic capacity.

This obviously assumes that the SC accepts the Euro/ Bharat norms and is not debating the norms themselves, in which case I would presume that the learned SC's bench is composed of a lot of doctors, researchers and biologists.
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Old 16th December 2015, 17:50   #49
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR

My opinion on this

I definitely endorse the fact that we all need to curb the pollution problem and all suggestions are welcome however below factors should be considered as well :

1) The quality of diesel available in Delhi is not good which causes smoke from cars no matter if they match the Euro 4/5 emission standards.

2) The number of commercial vehicles ( HR55, RJ02, HR69 etc) who operate in Delhi is way higher than anticipated. They need to control this number

3) The 2 wheeler in India still follow a BS III emission standard vs 4 wheeler which operate on a Euro 4/5 standard. Also, 2 wheeler are higher contributing factors to the pollution.

4) I think there should be a lifeline attached to each of the vehicles and based on their regular checkup, the vehicles should be bought back by the manufacturer at a reasonable price and provide a more advanced engine to the customer.


The crux of this entire issue is that in this customer centric world where a lot of options are available, the customer is the one who is actually suffering due to this entire situation.
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Old 16th December 2015, 17:54   #50
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR

Another hasty decision. Like seriously? What was the NGT thinking. If Delhi is the pollution capital, why just attribute it to diesel? There are SO many factors. *facepalm*

Am sure the automotive bodies will do something to challenge this. Positive side, why not bring in some of the more awesome hybrid SUVs sold abroad?!
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Old 16th December 2015, 17:54   #51
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR

This is by far one of the most worst, award winning BAN of the year 2015. The government itself must learn to stop pollution along with the public. One single minister travels in a long convoy of Innova's, Safari's, Ambasador's, Bolero's and what not? Such convoy's not only increases the pollution but cause traffic jams which again lead to multi-fold pollution than that of moving traffic.

Stop wasting resources in this manner and adopt new technology for additional safety. The king of Dubai travels alone in his self driven car and roams around, interacts with public like a common man. This is achievable with stringent policies/law and intelligent decision making and not by banning anything.
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Old 16th December 2015, 18:05   #52
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Default Re: SC's ban on diesels with >2,000 cc capacity in Delhi

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Originally Posted by AR123 View Post
I take your point and I just mentioned CO2 because its one of the major contributors to global warming. There are various other pollutants and if we look at the Euro norms they specify levels for CO, NOx etc and also particulate matter. Also the norms are different for both petrol and diesels. Considering that Bharat norms emulate what the Euro norms say, I will be surprised if that is not the case here in India. So the point I want to make is that its better to drive stringent emission norms rather than impose a blanket ban on cubic capacity.

This obviously assumes that the SC accepts the Euro/ Bharat norms and is not debating the norms themselves, in which case I would presume that the learned SC's bench is composed of a lot of doctors, researchers and biologists.
Currently global warming is not the concern nor is the norms, Implementation is. Majority of owners give no regards to norms. I agree that this is knee jerk reaction but that's how it works here. Even CNG rule was implemented after Supreme Court intervention. Political class, police do not care how norms at implemented, they just make norms for the sake of it.
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Old 16th December 2015, 18:19   #53
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR

Compare the number of diesel cars sold < 2L engine, with the number of Luxury SUVs > 2L engine sold.
Did they take any measurements of the emissions by different cars and their engines, along with their average monthly sales statistics?
IMHO, a 1.2L diesel cars which sells 5000 units a month would contribute much more to the pollution than a 2.4L diesel car which sell 100 units a month, based on pure mathematics.
Let us see how the Governments progress with the implementation of these bans!
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Old 16th December 2015, 18:50   #54
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR

I know many would disagree but, here are my two paisas on this ban and subsequent prospective steps to curb pollution:

I totally welcome Government decision to temporarily stop sales of a certain segment of Diesel Vehicles. The aim here is to bring focus back to the fact that diesel is subsidised (sometime even at expense of Petrol) to boost agriculture and commercial requirements. People owning the 'to-be banned' vehicles can really afford to go petrol.

BUT,

The hastiness of decision is contradictory and real dampener for people associated with automobile industry. The sudden decision has lead to a situation of chaos among manufacturers. First, we present ourselves as a pro-diesel community so much so that some brands have to completely phase out their petrol offerings due to lack of sale and then suddenly bring out a law that leaves them now with no product to sell. This is counterproductive for our country and its economy.

Solution:

Create a plan in phased manner where you should have clear and marked deadlines under which manufacturers be allowed to phase out such vehicles and also provide them a chance to produce alternative products to support change in demand. The time-plan could be anywhere from 6 months to 24 months as we can foresee no political change at centre during this time.


Alternatively, Government can also initiate other measures like:


1. Governments of all states must stop re-registration of Diesel Vehicles older than 10 years and Petrol Vehicles older than 15 years. This should apply to all vehicles - private, commercial, 2-wheeler, 3-wheeler, etc. This will not only spur automobile manufacturing sector towards growth but will also check environment concerns by regularly updating to best technologies.

2. As an exception to above measure, if a person wishes to keep a vehicle beyond the above mentioned limits, only for recreation or vintage purposes, he/she could be allowed to re-register vehicle in a 'VINTAGE' segment requiring periodic fitness tests and yearly re-registration.

3. Government should bring latest fuel quality measures and ensure all oil companies are up to date on best fuel quality. This shall not be difficult if above measures are already in place as most vehicles non-compliant with latest fuel standard shall anyways be phased out.

4. Government shall also lead by example and slowly phase out fleet of diesel vehicles from its fleet wherever possible except where conflicting with defence matters.

5. Scrap the nonsensical even-odd formula with immediate effect. It is a short-term stop gap solution with long term harm than good. You do not even have the force, nor the manpower, to penalise every offending vehicle in NCR and it is too much effort for little result. How do you monitor vehicles from other states? You have exempted commercial vehicles from the rule which honestly are the biggest contributors to pollution. C'mon, such measures can only be introduced at community level rather than as law.

6.If you want to make people shift from diesel, make petrol affordable. Historically, Petrol prices have suffered the brunt of diesel subsidies. If you sell petrol at lesser margin over diesel, people would happily change sides without any government pressure.

7. Lastly, what good is a government which is harsh on diesel vehicles but turning its back on hybrid vehicles. India has non-existent motivation towards hybrid vehicles and their sale is minuscule in our country. Motivate companies by whatever means to produce vehicles with green technologies and make these vehicles easy on pocket of customer. Most people in urban India have commute distance of less than 30 Kms. a day which is easily manageable with current breed of electric and hybrid vehicles.

C'mon people, Anything that secures our future should be supported whole-heartedly because whatever we leave behind for our future generations would amount to nothing if we don't give them a healthy air to breath.
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Old 16th December 2015, 18:54   #55
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR

Quote:
Originally Posted by avdhesh15 View Post
I agree with the ruling but not totally on the account of pollution... anyway a lot has been said on that topic and am sure will be a lot more.

I am against the fact that people buying luxury diesel cars are running them on subsidized fuel. There has to be a way to differentiate subsidized diesel from regular diesel such that this misuse stops. Why should the common man pay taxes to subsidize someone running his E / S / 5 / 7 / etc on subsidized fuel! Although this guy won't probably even blink to put petrol in his car, there can be steps to ensure it happens.

The "GiveItUp" for LPG cylinders was an amazing move and I hope something can be done about diesel as well. I believe this ruling might just pave the way for this to happen and play a role in reducing the tax burdens on the aam-aadmi.

It is only the kitchen fuels like LPG and Kerosene that is subsidised. Diesel is taxed lower than petrol but by no means is it subsidised.
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Old 16th December 2015, 19:03   #56
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR

Looks like the ban will decimate Toyota's Innova and Fortuner in the coming months which are its "bread" and "butter" models. Toyota's days of milking the customer is soon coming to an end. That said, the whole ruling is nothing short of absurd. Oh well, no surprises there.
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Old 16th December 2015, 19:06   #57
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If a study were to be done, it would probably come out that DIesel Gensets to power shops, offfices, industry, Malls and residential complexes are the biggest single pollution source. In the summer months, most of Gurgaon runs on Diesel fuelled Gensets run for a significant paat of the day. The government should look at providing 24X7 power supply so that this type of backup power is not needed rather than banning neww 2000 CC Diesel vehicles which are relatively limited in number. They shoud also beef up public transport so that people do not have to rely on personal transport and what about the miliions of 2 wheelers.

The message out from this judgement is that rich ( who are few in number) cannot pollute, but 2 wheeler owners can do so because they are relatively poor. Never mind if they contribute to a major share of the pollution .Seems like the couts are also following the concept of " common but differentiated responsibilities" being advocated by the government in all climate meets

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftdiesel View Post
Looks like the ban will decimate Toyota's Innova and Fortuner in the coming months which are its "bread" and "butter" models. Toyota's days of milking the customer is soon coming to an end. That said, the whole ruling is nothing short of absurd. Oh well, no surprises there.
Renualt Lodgy, Maruti Ertiga and Honda Mobilio should benefit significantly from this decision.

Last edited by manson : 16th December 2015 at 20:01. Reason: Please avoid back to back posts by using the edit tab whilst posting within an interval of 20 minutes.
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Old 16th December 2015, 19:17   #58
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR

All the SC and the government is doing is hiding its own shortcomings and punishing the manufacturers for following the rules set by them.

We have a company selling cars which is deemed to have cheated on the emission norms but our SC decides that its suddenly safe for the Volkwagen to sell its cars for flouting the norms and its not safe for the likes of Mahindra/Mercedes to sell its car which are safe. If the SC and the government are so desperate to reduce the pollution why not ban VW from selling all its diesel cars ! I am pretty sure they must be causing more pollution than of the other manufacturers.

Our PUC system is a joke, any and every car can pass it. This isn't the fault of the manufacturers but the shortcomings of our government. Why can't they start implementing stricter rules instead of stupid decisions like odd even numbers and banning sales of luxury diesel cars !

The first time I read about the odd-even concept I thought I was on the fakingposts website. I have cars at home and all the same number (Ahmedabad), surely there are atleast 100 different ways than what they are implementing.

I normally don't call out the government and understand their job is tough but this is ridiculous.

Punish those who break the rules not the ones who follow them. If the rules are too lenient, make them stringent and give the manufacturers time to follow them.
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Old 16th December 2015, 19:29   #59
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR

While this is supreme court order so the law of land is the final word, I still find it plain funny that that anything over 2.0 litre is banned but VW can still sell the 2.0 TDI Jetta and Audi A4/A6 which have been proven worldwide to be a lot more polluting.
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Old 16th December 2015, 19:45   #60
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Default re: Supreme Court bans registration of diesel cars over 2,000 cc in Delhi & NCR

I still don't understand how the stopping of diesel vehicle sales will lead to lesser pollution. Afterall of-all-the crude Oil India receives, I think 50% (Rough numbers) of it is Diesel and barely 13% is Petrol/Motor-Spirit/Gasoline. (https://www.quora.com/How-many-liter...l-of-crude-oil)

Its very obvious in order to manufacture more Petrol, Refineries have to keep producing more and more diesels.

And now since there is a limit to how much one can store, it will eventually lead to fall in Diesel Price. This will lead to higher purchase of diesel driven cars though outside of NCR, eventually leading to more and widespread Pollution all around India instead of just concentrated in NCR.

Last edited by anu21v : 16th December 2015 at 19:49.
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