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Old 3rd March 2017, 20:29   #481
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Default Re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine

Baleno RS is "Overpriced", because there are so many cars of different categories available at this price range.

You have Hatchbacks, Compact Sedans, Sedans, SUVs in this price range.

In hatchbacks, If one is looking for an Automatic in this price range, then one has Jazz CVT & Baleno CVT, both of which are cheaper then Baleno RS. Here convenience scores over Performance.

I say convenience, because the Regular Baleno isn't by any means underpowered/sluggish. It's equally good, and the Premium that RS is demanding isn't justified IMO.

If one wants a Turbo Petrol+Auto, then you have the popular Polo TSI. It's a complete package & I wouldn't mind paying additional 40k just for the auto gearbox.

If one wants a Turbo Petrol+Manual, the Ecosport Trend+ is a good 13k cheaper then this Baleno RS. Yes, Trend+ misses out on some features but it makes up by offering better Ground Clearance & Easy Entry/Exit, and not to forget Superior Dynamics. The Ecosport despite being a 4 yr old makes a compelling case even now. That's a remarkable achievement in my books.

I haven't bought Figo Diesel into equation, because it's a good 2.03 lakhs (Titanium) & 1.44 lakhs (Titanium+) cheaper then the Baleno RS. It's a no brainier. One would save enough (Fuel) for 3-4 years.

In Compact Sedans, you can get Ameo Diesel AT for 8.78 lakhs. And that 1.5 TDI is no way Inferior. In fact, I prefer Diesels if the difference isn't much.(Between Petrol & Diesel). So, one can have a car which is better built, has efficient engine, Auto Gearbox for a small Premium (9k) over this Baleno RS.

In Sedans
, as everyone mentioned, City S can be had for 20k less. And that 1.5 IVTEC with 4 cylinders will be a complete package in terms of performance & refinement. We can give credit for Honda for pricing the S very well. Now this particular S grade makes City VFM.


Someone looking at Baleno won't be willing to pay additional 1.4 lakhs for this RS version. Also, claimed FE is almost same as regular 1.2 VVT. If I had to pick between the two (1.2 VVT & 1.0 Boosterjet), it would be the former just because of the huge price difference and not so much differentiation (Performance & Features).
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Old 3rd March 2017, 20:33   #482
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Default Re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
While I agree to all of what you have said, here are the reasons why the GT TSI sells in reasonable numbers:

-> Automatic. When i was getting my car, a couple of others had come to TD the GT TSI. Neither was a performance freak and both were buying the car solely cos it was a loaded AT.

-> Both were looking for a second car. This car is bought by a lot of folks who want a city beater or a car for the wife and have higher end car for highway duties.

-> The primary reason the above folks buy this car are (a) Technology, (b) Drive Quality, (c) Build Quality, interior quality and feeling of safety in a small package.

-> Performance of the DSG+TSi combination. These are the folks who mod this car due to the extensive modification options.

Unfortunately for the folks above, the little bit extra in maintenance or the lack of rear seat space simply isn't a consideration. Neither is the fact that it is a Maruti as this clientele doesn't really buy Marutis.
All the above is true. Which is why I said Maruti can get away with this pricing. The points you mentioned above indicate to a niche category. People with multiple cars, need for an AT, second/third car when the first car is a premium car. This means the Polo GT TSI has super limited appeal.

Now compare it to the Baleno, Maruti badge, excellent comfort and space even more than my Corolla!, cheap to own and maintain, now with a turbo petrol with 100+ horses. Automatically the appeal of the Baleno RS is way more than the Polo and it's 40K lesser.

A Polo GT TSI customer may not look at the RS, but a huge number of people who did not look at Polo GT due to high maintenance, rear space and fear of DSG now suddenly have an option in this segment. There's nothing else!

Honda has the 1.5L i-VTEC engine which can give both the Polo GT tSI and the BAleno RS sleepless nights if they plonk it in the Jazz and W-RV but they are in deep slumber to even see this.

All the above points you raised are easily filled by the Honda Jazz if they had a 1.5L i-VTEC engine with the 7 speed CVT box. Sadly to save a few bucks on excise duty they have let this go.
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Old 3rd March 2017, 20:48   #483
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Default re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine. EDIT: Launched at Rs. 8.69 lakh

Well a high price tag for an engine brought from foreign shores was expected. At this moment there must be a capacity constraint for Maruti. Imagine launching at lower price could trouble supply chain and expose Maruti. They are buying time and would sure up the ante in future.

Last edited by Sip : 3rd March 2017 at 20:50.
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Old 3rd March 2017, 20:56   #484
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Default Re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Honda has the 1.5L i-VTEC engine which can give both the Polo GT tSI and the BAleno RS sleepless nights if they plonk it in the Jazz and W-RV but they are in deep slumber to even see this.

All the above points you raised are easily filled by the Honda Jazz if they had a 1.5L i-VTEC engine with the 7 speed CVT box. Sadly to save a few bucks on excise duty they have let this go.
That is so true but sadly our industry runs purely on numbers. A 1.5L i-VTEC is not capable of producing the excellent mileage figures that these small 3cyl turbos are capable of in 'test' conditions. Unfortunately there are very few people who understand that in real world city conditions mileage may vary only by 1kmpl or so. They all see that ARAI figure that says 20+ kmpl or some ridiculous number that could only be achieved if cruising at 0 elevation in top gear at 60 kph with not traffic or speed breakers and get wowed by that. Variable Valve timing was the last truly efficient change to the ICE, perhaps Koenigsegg's FreeValve tech might be the next change but these other permutations and combinations with number of cylinders and turbos simply chase after dream numbers. Waste of money in terms of R&D and not to mention the dilution of a pure driving experience.
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Old 3rd March 2017, 21:04   #485
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Default re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine. EDIT: Launched at Rs. 8.69 lakh

One good thing about Baleno is the manual gearbox. Thank god they didn't put a CVT. Hot hatches deserve a manual GB and Volkswagen has been very stubborn against it.

If Polo TSI would've been offered with manual transmission, it would've been no brainer.

Baleno RS actually looks like a good alternative to the TSI. Let's wait for the road tests for the engine.

Also, Punto Abarth, though brilliant and very powerful engine failed due to it's substandard gearbox. But mainly due to after sales and the FIAT brand image in India. Don't see such problems in the Baleno. I think it'll succeed.

Last edited by The Brutailer : 3rd March 2017 at 21:25.
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Old 3rd March 2017, 21:08   #486
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Default re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine. EDIT: Launched at Rs. 8.69 lakh

Another way to look at it is only 0.26 lakhs over 1.3 Alpha Diesel. (8.69 vs. 8.43 ex show room Delhi).

Question is 'why not' RS for the following reasons:
  • Turbo kick from Petrol instead of Diesel
  • Linear torque delivery from 1700 rpm all the way up
  • Such a linear delivery of torque above 1700 rpm not possible in a petrol car of normal Baleno
  • Petrol-head who bought diesel just for torque gets it in petrol now

Plus, following advantages over competition:
  • No reliability issues like VW 1.2 TSI
  • Superb safety from the safety compliant Baleno
MS has a winner on hand. Get the 1.0 Boosterjet on the Brezza and 1.4 Boosterjet on S-cross in future


Quote:
Originally Posted by chncar View Post
Looks like a premium of 1.4 lakhs over 1.2 Alpha. Totally not worth it at that price.
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Old 3rd March 2017, 22:17   #487
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Default re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine. EDIT: Launched at Rs. 8.69 lakh

The price is definitely higher than what we all expected and its not as VFM as the regular Baleno (even if you consider the better performance) IMO. The Maruti is surely banking on their reputation to sell this product at this price and I guess its a good strategy for the company as the buyer for this is an enthusiast, so squeezing him/her another 30-40k is likely possible and thats what they are aiming for.

I'm in no way justifying the price, but I can see the reason. The only thing that can fix this is competition!!

Lets hope for the best, that is

A 1.5 Jazz
An Ecoboost Figo
A Powerful Bolt(Bolt sport was on cards once)
and of course, the Manual GT TSi Polo
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Old 3rd March 2017, 22:21   #488
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Default re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine. EDIT: Launched at Rs. 8.69 lakh

Comparison numbers between the big 3:

The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine. EDIT: Launched at Rs. 8.69 lakh-untitled.png
(Click on the image to *OPEN* in a NEW window)

Last edited by GTO : 4th March 2017 at 18:48. Reason: As requested :)
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Old 3rd March 2017, 22:28   #489
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Default re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine. EDIT: Launched at Rs. 8.69 lakh

The Hot Hatch scene for the Indian enthusiast on a budget, according to my opinion, is as follows:

1. Punto Abarth - Undoubtedly the true king of affordable hot hacthes in India for obvious reasons.
2. Figo 1.5 Tdci - Mesmerising engine, Superb built and impeccable value for money make this hatch truly deserving for the second spot.
3. Polo GT Twins - Great cars. Awesome engines plonked into the chassis of the normal car. A little overpriced especially when compared to Figo.

Baleno RS - Sorry but plonking a turbocharger in a 3 cylinder engine doesn't make enough power. It doesn't bring the refinement as well.
All show and No go, This is what the hatch would be best described as. Period.
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Old 3rd March 2017, 22:34   #490
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Default re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine. EDIT: Launched at Rs. 8.69 lakh

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Comparison numbers between the big 3:
Small correction - Abarth has a 1.4 TJet and not a 1.2 as mentioned above.
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Old 3rd March 2017, 22:57   #491
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Default re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine. EDIT: Launched at Rs. 8.69 lakh

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Comparison numbers between the big 3:
What VW offers for an additional 2L is far far better than what Maruti offers for an additional 1.4L.

It should have been priced a minimum 40K lesser. But Maruti might have priced it at this premium citing the import duty for the Turbo engine. If and when it starts producing the engine locally, the price may come down to realistic levels.

Last edited by romeomidhun : 3rd March 2017 at 22:59.
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Old 3rd March 2017, 23:01   #492
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Default Re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
That is so true but sadly our industry runs purely on numbers. A 1.5L i-VTEC is not capable of producing the excellent mileage figures that these small 3cyl turbos are capable of in 'test' conditions. Unfortunately there are very few people who understand that in real world city conditions mileage may vary only by 1kmpl or so. They all see that ARAI figure that says 20+ kmpl or some ridiculous number that could only be achieved if cruising at 0 elevation in top gear at 60 kph with not traffic or speed breakers and get wowed by that. Variable Valve timing was the last truly efficient change to the ICE, perhaps Koenigsegg's FreeValve tech might be the next change but these other permutations and combinations with number of cylinders and turbos simply chase after dream numbers. Waste of money in terms of R&D and not to mention the dilution of a pure driving experience.
I would have to disagree with you regarding the above. Engines are made efficient not only through quantum leaps in technology. But through regular improvements in terms of improving tolerances, removing frictional losses, reducing heat losses, improving injector design etc. 3 cylinder turbos are here to stay. As engine designers, we used to believe in the old adage, there is no replacement for displacement. But it doesn't hold true anymore. The 3 cylinders can be made as good as any modern 4 cylinder engines. It takes money and effort , that's it, nothing more, no utopian solutions. Regarding Boosterjet, my company which specialises in Turbo engines, would definitely be having a closer look. I will definitely share any non confidential takeaway from the same.
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Old 3rd March 2017, 23:11   #493
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Default re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine. EDIT: Launched at Rs. 8.69 lakh

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Comparison numbers between the big 3:
Thanks for the chart. I would be more interested to see a comprehensive comparison between Baleno RS, Polo TSI and Abarth Punto. I believe Abarth would be leap years ahead followed by Polo.
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Old 3rd March 2017, 23:46   #494
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Default Re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarguyNish View Post
I haven't bought Figo Diesel into equation, because it's a good 2.03 lakhs (Titanium) & 1.44 lakhs (Titanium+) cheaper then the Baleno RS. It's a no brainier. One would save enough (Fuel) for 3-4 years.

In Compact Sedans, you can get Ameo Diesel AT for 8.78 lakhs. And that 1.5 TDI is no way Inferior. In fact, I prefer Diesels if the difference isn't much.(Between Petrol & Diesel). So, one can have a car which is better built, has efficient engine, Auto Gearbox for a small Premium (9k) over this Baleno RS.
After the (over) pricing of the RS I am now seriously considering the Figo Diesel Titanium with additional safety pack. Prior to the pricing I had almost made up my mind in favour of the RS. IMHO the following are the advantages and disadvantages of the Figo & RS:

Positives of Figo from my perpective:
1. VFM
2. Diesel at a price lower (approx 1.75 lakhs) than the petrol RS.
3. Six Airbags
4. Better build quality
5. Slightly smaller. Easier to maneuver as almost 2 inches less wider.


Positives of Baleno RS from my perpective:
1. Maruti A.S.S
2. Hot hatch from the stable of Maruti {which has more than 50% market share)
3. 16 inch alloys vs. 14 inch alloys
4. Rear Disk brakes
5. Rear Parking sensors and all the other bells and whistles
6. More spacious / Easier to drive vis-a-vis the Figo

Fellow BHPians please help me choose between the RS and the Figo TDi Titanium (O) variant.

Last edited by raichoudhury : 3rd March 2017 at 23:47.
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Old 4th March 2017, 00:33   #495
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Default Re: The Maruti Baleno RS: 1.0L turbo-petrol engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Honda has the 1.5L i-VTEC engine which can give both the Polo GT tSI and the BAleno RS sleepless nights if they plonk it in the Jazz and W-RV but they are in deep slumber to even see this.

All the above points you raised are easily filled by the Honda Jazz if they had a 1.5L i-VTEC engine with the 7 speed CVT box.
Very true. I would have bought the Jazz a long time ago if it had the 1.5 iVTEC, 7 speed CVT, and in the top trim. Sorry for the OT.

All said and done, the Baleno RS is surely overpriced. And my guess is, it may not be as successful as some here are anticipating, because the majority of people who are going to go for the Baleno may not care for the performance of the turbo petrol engine with direct injection, especially at that price.

Somehow I feel that it hardly matters to Maruti if the Baleno RS sells in large numbers or not, given that they are such an enterprise car maker in India with several cars with 10k+ sales per month. I feel, Maruti is testing out new grounds for future market strategies. If they cared, a petrol S-Cross with a bigger boosterjet would have appeared by now.

BTW, RavenAvi, another small correction in your comparison table. The VW GT TSI now comes with 195/55/R16 tyres on 16" alloys.

Last edited by asitkde : 4th March 2017 at 00:53.
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