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Old 5th January 2016, 13:35   #1
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Default Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

In December 2015, the Supreme Court of India announced a ban on the registration of diesel vehicles with engines displacing more than 2,000cc in Delhi till March 31, 2016. Some automakers have been hit hard by this ruling as some of their best-selling models are powered by diesel engines larger than 2,000cc.

In order to sell models like the Scorpio and XUV500 in Delhi, Mahindra is considering the introduction of petrol versions of the two vehicles. Toyota, which is another company that has been hit by the ban, is also mulling the introduction of petrol versions of the Innova and Fortuner.

While the Innova is Toyota's best-selling model, the Fortuner is the leader in its segment. Both cars are powered by diesel engines displacing over 2,000cc. When Toyota launched the Innova in India, the vehicle had a petrol-powered variant. However, the demand for the version was poor and the company discontinued it.

Toyota, along with Mahindra and Mercedes-Benz, has also appealed against the Supreme Court ruling. The hearing is scheduled for January 5, 2016.

Source: ET Auto
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Old 5th January 2016, 13:48   #2
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Default Re: Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

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Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
Toyota, along with Mahindra and Mercedes-Benz, has also appealed against the Supreme Court ruling. The hearing is scheduled for January 5, 2016.

Source: ET Auto
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/50450661.cms

With Supreme court upholding the ban, Toyota and Mahindra will be left with no choice but to introduce petrol variants.
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Old 5th January 2016, 19:22   #3
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Default Re: Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

Launching Petrol in these cars will not attract buyers. Rather buyers will go to other cities to buy the Diesel car. Petrol Innova didnt click.

Best would be to have diesel options lesser than 2000cc, something like 1.6 Or 1.5 liter engine and get the same good output.

I think Formula1 cars run on 1.6 liter engines, not sure about it.
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Old 5th January 2016, 19:33   #4
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Default Re: Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

Unlikely that Toyota will introduce a petrol engine just to cater to a three month ban in one city.

Yes, they'll take a sales hit but it's a small dent in their Indian operations and not one worth bothering about.
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Old 5th January 2016, 19:37   #5
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Default Re: Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

With this ban, I bet the resale prices of existing Innovas and Fortuners will rise in Delhi and surrounding areas. Similar would be the case with Scorpio, XUV and others.
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Old 5th January 2016, 20:02   #6
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Default Re: Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
Unlikely that Toyota will introduce a petrol engine just to cater to a three month ban in one city.

Yes, they'll take a sales hit but it's a small dent in their Indian operations and not one worth bothering about.
Agree with your post.

But also disagree : this ruling, through both the original one and it being upheld in appeal, shows that someone is taking the issue of pollution seriously. And it surely isn't insignificant enough to vanish and never reappear.

We have cities such as Bangalore and Mumbai pondering over something that has been implemented in Delhi: the odd/even ruling.

Regardless of what happens after 3 months, manufacturers such as M&M and Toyota and of course the Germans have terrible exposure so they absolutely need to have a Plan B.

--

On a related note: is Honda paying attention? Golden opportunity to strike big with CRV.
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Old 5th January 2016, 20:42   #7
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Default Re: Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

In a way its important to have 2 things to reduce further pollution by Diesels

1. Standard EU-V implementation across country and availability
2. New diesels should come with DPF like in europe and australia. Toyota's engine meets Euro5 emission standards and has a diesel particulate filter.

Toyota has these, why not introduce here in India ?

http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-revi...st-drive-36436
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Old 6th January 2016, 09:56   #8
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Default Re: Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

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Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
With this ban, I bet the resale prices of existing Innovas and Fortuners will rise in Delhi and surrounding areas. Similar would be the case with Scorpio, XUV and others.
How will prices rise ? They can't register the car in new owner's name. So if they can't sell it, then rise in prices is meaningless. Then again, if they sell it outside Delhi, it doesn't matter because market forces haven't factored in 2000cc ban there so old prices will prevail.
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Old 6th January 2016, 11:25   #9
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Default Re: Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

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How will prices rise ? They can't register the car in new owner's name. So if they can't sell it, then rise in prices is meaningless. Then again, if they sell it outside Delhi, it doesn't matter because market forces haven't factored in 2000cc ban there so old prices will prevail.
Ok. I was under the impression that only new cars can't be registered. So it is basically no new registrations for above 2000cc diesel cars.
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Old 6th January 2016, 12:31   #10
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Default Re: Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

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Originally Posted by tanwaramit View Post
Launching Petrol in these cars will not attract buyers. Rather buyers will go to other cities to buy the Diesel car. Petrol Innova didnt click.
Petrol SUVs & MUVs have never sold in India. However, if this ban on 2 liter diesels continues, they will find some acceptance. Toyota can go a step further and bring in its hybrids (which they anyway plan to do) - that should take away the gas guzzling nature of heavy petrol UVs.

Expect Toyota, Mahindra & Tata to start work on 1.9L diesels. It's really not that difficult to do that to their current engines.

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How will prices rise ? They can't register the car in new owner's name.
Yes they can. Existing Delhi-registered 2 liter cars can be sold & transferred to new owners. What is not allowed is registration of used cars from outside Delhi. Those with Delhi plates have no problem.

Anyone who bought a Fortuner in December can actually sell it for a profit!
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Old 6th January 2016, 12:43   #11
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Default Re: Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

Petrol MUV/SUV's will not sell here so I don't think Toyota will be thinking seriously on this part. Hybrid Fortuner & Innova can be an option but that will take ages considering none of these cars have a hybrid version anywhere in the world.

I understand the court said yesterday that they are considering extending the diesel ban to cars with engines less then 2.0 L capacity too. Now that will really be throwing the cat among the pigeons.
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Old 6th January 2016, 13:05   #12
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Default Re: Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

Sometimes i really wonder why do SUV paying customers who are paying so much moolah be concerned too much about the Fuel price. He of all the people should be ready to buy a good powered SUV and then fuel it with Petrol, why price should be a deterrent.

I really support this move of starting banning diesel vehicles, and it should trickle down to smaller variants too. Keep diesel for Trucks/lorries and subsidize the price again to keep price check of commodities. I know majority won't agree, but this is my opinion.

Last edited by GTO : 7th January 2016 at 11:16. Reason: Typos
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Old 6th January 2016, 13:08   #13
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Default Re: Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

A petrol engine on any of the affected models which have larger diesel engines will be a failure because the petrol engines would have fuel efficiency in the low single digits which is why they weren't sold in the first place. What is the use of an SUV that can go anywhere provided anywhere is a place that happens to have a reliable petrol pump nearby? The tank range of a diesel vehicle is nearly double with fuel that costs 20% less, no diesel no sale period. Hybrid options eat up precious cargo space, so long trips can be planned with only toothbrushes as luggage, 2 litre diesels can do what most people want, I guess that's what we'll see.
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Old 6th January 2016, 13:43   #14
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Default Re: Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

There are very good 1.9L diesel engines capable of 140-150bhp. I guess, world over the focus is going to smaller engines. If 1.6-1.8 liter diesels with power output of 150bhp or so are developed. this can be a long term plan not just for India, but other fuel economy sensitive markets.

That said, the ban does not make sense. Government should mandate emission norms and then ban all non confirming vehicles, whether 2000cc or 200cc.

If Govt feels EURO-IV is not enough, why not make EURO-VI compulsory?
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Old 6th January 2016, 14:18   #15
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Default Re: Toyota India mulls petrol versions of Innova, Fortuner

A lot of Innova vehicles are used by Taxi sector. For them a petrol wouldn't make any sense. Not only is petrol more expensive, it does not give a good fuel economy on these heavy cars.

I have driven a Toyota Previa ( our Innova) abroad and though extremely smooth car, it drinks petrol like anything. Max 1.6 litre and upto 1200-1300 Kilos is the ideal size and weight where petrol engines will still be used in our country in the near future. With turbo petrol motors coming in the engine size will go even lower.
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