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Old 19th September 2006, 21:56   #16
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well i think ARAI is acting like a kid and playing tit for tat
international agencies dont accept ARAI's standards so i guess its their way of showing the world the finger...
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Old 19th September 2006, 23:21   #17
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Honda Activa scooter has a run flat tire. what about that?

I have driven on all kinds of indian roads and never did I see a cut on a tire that was deep enough to cause a flat.

I think they will be OK by reducing the wheel size and increasing the profile of the tire.
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Old 20th September 2006, 00:46   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theMAG
I'm sure being a government agency has its flaws anywhere in the world. But, we need to revisit whether the existence of ARAI has proven directly/indirectly beneficial to the common man and his car, rather than to the 0.5% populace in India that can afford Mercs,BMWs,Porsches, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Hummers, Minis, Rolls Royces, Bentleys and Maybachs.
Well said, but is the ARAI really beneficial to the common man? I drove a friend's Fusion in India the other day and it had its indicators set up for LHD. The bonnet release was similarly on the passenger's side (LHD Driver's side).

We use indicator stalks and bonnet release levers a lot more than spare tires on a 7 series - why dont they fix THAT first? If the chap can afford a 7-series he can afford to have a service vehicle carrying his spare tyre running escort service at all times.
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Old 20th September 2006, 01:28   #19
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Interesting points raised. Though IMO it is simply not possible, neither feasible, to do away with ARAI. A mandate to pass anything that has NCAP rating or to accept any car that is OK in the west is not only shortsighted but also will mean political suicide. The opposition and NGOs will immediately cry foul and someone will file a PIL for sellout to the mutinationals.

Also, going by that logic we would have never had bodies like ISI or BIS... We borrowed heavily from the british standards but then added our own tadka to suit our local needs. A case in point being this spare tire matter. BMW may have fantastic technologies but they also run on smooth turmac. In india we have abyssmal roads. Forget rural areas, even a developed and bustling city like Hyderabad is atrocious at times. We someone has seen a busy road like the one at Polo Grounds or the one running behind the HiTec city will know. There are sharp and hard rocks embedded in all those potholes that can tear apart a moderately worn-out tire so easily.

A car that comes minus a spare wheel, a jack and a tire-wrench can be suicidal on such roads, especially at nights. I think there is a reason behind why ARAI is insisting on that tire folks. This is not to say that Govt bodies are saints... they are the worst cases of red-tapism thrusted upon the people. Just that in this case I feel they just may have a valid point.
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Old 20th September 2006, 09:22   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick5490
its gonna be difficult.. hope they find a viable solution..
well one thing they never picked up from Rover



The P6 had big issues with boot space so one solution was the boot mounted wheel. And then in 1974, they came out with the dunlop denovo run flat. After the car was phased ou, the tyre never took off due to cost and availability
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Old 20th September 2006, 09:33   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo
A car that comes minus a spare wheel, a jack and a tire-wrench can be suicidal on such roads, especially at nights. I think there is a reason behind why ARAI is insisting on that tire folks. This is not to say that Govt bodies are saints... they are the worst cases of red-tapism thrusted upon the people. Just that in this case I feel they just may have a valid point.
Huh? I think we are talking about "Run Flat tyres".
i.e. tyres which can be run after a puncture for 200km at 90kmph
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Old 20th September 2006, 12:19   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
Huh? I think we are talking about "Run Flat tyres".
i.e. tyres which can be run after a puncture for 200km at 90kmph
We obvoiusly do not have repair facilities for run flat tyres every 200 kms. So doesn't ARAI have a point?

Last edited by Joz : 20th September 2006 at 12:21.
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Old 20th September 2006, 12:24   #23
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Interesting logic!
That means all cal manufacturers who do not have dealerships within 200kms should not be allowed to set up shop. What happens if you mercedes breaks down 300kms from the nearest service station?
There are parts of India(I have travelled on those roads) where there is no tubeless repair facility for 100kms+.
So cars with tubless tyres should be banned too!

If any place has a dealership within 200kms, there will be run flat repair center too.
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Old 20th September 2006, 12:31   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
That means all cal manufacturers who do not have dealerships within 200kms should not be allowed to set up shop. What happens if you mercedes breaks down 300kms from the nearest service station?
There are parts of India(I have travelled on those roads) where there is no tubeless repair facility for 100kms+.
So cars with tubless tyres should be banned too!

If any place has a dealership within 200kms, there will be run flat repair center too.
I think we're splitting hairs here, tsk. Cars with tubeless tyres have spare wheels. Your mercedes does not break down as often as you would get a flat tyre - if it does then you have a bigger problem.

I think the point Joz made is valid - what happens if you run on your run-flat tyre for 200 kms? Check into the next hotel (within 200 kms, of course) and wait for the replacement to arrive?
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Old 20th September 2006, 12:33   #25
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One dumb question, what happens to a run-flat tire after it has punctured? Do you have to throw it? Is it repairable, just like normal tires?
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Old 20th September 2006, 12:41   #26
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There is no repair, the tyre has to be replaced.

@Steeroid, as for the frequency of punctures, how many punctures have you had on your Safari as opposed to breakdown?
Modern tyres are extremely resistant, and if you are very unlucky you will suffer a puncture once in about 8000-10000kms.

Also any new technology takes time to seep in.
Once we have run flat tyres being fitted, more dealerships will crop up.

Also this tech will save lives on expressways. Normal tyres can undergo sudden deflation in case of high speed punctures(even tubeless) and this can lead to severe accidents.

Freeways in the US are littered in places with tyre pars and skid marks leading to concrete barrier.

Run flat tyres do not undego such deflation and loss of control is not there even if there is sudden loss of pressure. A puncuture in a tubeless or tube tyre(tubed tyres are even more dangerous) on a highway at 100kmph can kill you, however with a run flat tyre you will be stranded for some time in the worst case.

What makes ARAI seem foolish is that cars above 40,000$ do not require any such homogelation. Its only for "assembled or made" in India.

http://www.pirellisafety.com/safety/...q_en.shtml?4_0

Last edited by tsk1979 : 20th September 2006 at 12:45.
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Old 20th September 2006, 12:54   #27
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Default Repairing Run-flat tyres

Quoting from http://www.etyres.co.uk/run-flat-tyres

Quote:
One area of particular interest is the question of repairs to Run-flat Tyres. At the moment the majority of tyre manufacturers DO NOT recommend a Run-flat tyre be repaired following operation at reduced pressure. When a standard tyre is punctured and runs at reduced or zero pressure it will suffer damage to the sidewall that will render it unfit for repair and re-use. This damage is easily spotted once the tyre is removed and is usually seen as a creasing to the inner liner of the tyre in the sidewall area. This creasing indicates that damage has occured to the internal construction of the tyre and further use could result in casing failure.
Due to its heavily reinforced sidewall construction a Run-flat tyre will not exhibit these signs and there may be internal damage that cannot be seen. A Run-flat tyre will undergo a great deal of stress while operating in a zero pressure situation and will therefore be subject to greater stresses than a standard tyre. The actual tyre does not carry the weight of the vehicle - it is the pneumatic effect of the air inside the tyre that carries the weight.
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Old 20th September 2006, 12:55   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakhon
One dumb question, what happens to a run-flat tire after it has punctured? Do you have to throw it? Is it repairable, just like normal tires?
I think its not repairable and has to be replaced with a new one. Not sure though.
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Old 20th September 2006, 12:56   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
If any place has a dealership within 200kms, there will be run flat repair center too.
Tsk, getting a flat on Indian roads is not that difficult a task. Also, I don't think all dealerships will be able to handle run falt tyres. Run-flats are inherently more complex in nature with pressure loss sensors and/or being linked to the ABS system. Inspite of this, if one wants to take the pleasure of driving a Beemer into a local garage, they have loads of guts!

For arguement sake, what happens if the sensors do not detect a flat, the driver continues driving and detect a flat out of the blue? Ofcourse, this might happen one in a million times, but it still might. Regulatory bodies would need to look at even these remote possibilities. That's their job.
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Old 20th September 2006, 12:59   #30
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Quoting from http://www.etyres.co.uk/run-flat-tyres

Quote:
One area of particular interest is the question of repairs to Run-flat Tyres. At the moment the majority of tyre manufacturers DO NOT recommend a Run-flat tyre be repaired following operation at reduced pressure. When a standard tyre is punctured and runs at reduced or zero pressure it will suffer damage to the sidewall that will render it unfit for repair and re-use. This damage is easily spotted once the tyre is removed and is usually seen as a creasing to the inner liner of the tyre in the sidewall area. This creasing indicates that damage has occured to the internal construction of the tyre and further use could result in casing failure.
Due to its heavily reinforced sidewall construction a Run-flat tyre will not exhibit these signs and there may be internal damage that cannot be seen. A Run-flat tyre will undergo a great deal of stress while operating in a zero pressure situation and will therefore be subject to greater stresses than a standard tyre. The actual tyre does not carry the weight of the vehicle - it is the pneumatic effect of the air inside the tyre that carries the weight.
Tyres need to be replaced, no repair.
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