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Old 18th September 2006, 13:49   #1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoviceDriver
Read in today's TOI, Delhi version that BMW India is having problem in educating the government about their "run-flat" tyre technology. This technology helps BMW cars to drive at 80 kmph for some good distance, hence the 3-series and 5-series cars do not have any spare wheels (not even the space to accommodate one in 3-series). And as we all know, our country's road rules make it mandatory for the cars to have a spare wheel. Interesting bottleneck, any comments guys..............?
Guess what is the biggest barrier for BMW to produce cars in India?

Run Flat technology.
This technology means that the spare wheel is not necessary.
So they dont have provision for spare wheel in their cars.
According to Indian regulations, a car without a spare tyre cannot be Homogelated. i.e. cant be assembled in India and sold etc., Import is the only route.

BMW officials are talking to ARAI, but have been hit by a wall of babudom.

Read it here

Can you think of other instances where due to this red tape so many projects have gotten delayed or India denied cutting edge tech(S class anyone?).

Note this is not limited to BMW.
The world over automobiles are evolving. We have IR vision, radar based collision avoidance,... the list goes on.
Our regulations date to british raj. Going by the red tapism in our govt, and importance given to automobile related issues, and the shortsightedness of the govt(remember, how long it took to draft a small car policy), more such hurdles will come up, and we will be the losers.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 18th September 2006 at 14:45.
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Old 18th September 2006, 14:26   #2
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Yes the Ancient Research Authority(?) of India is a bit out of touch with the rest of the world..
They need to update their methodology and need to do so FAST if we are to see any of the goodies mentioned above and many more to come into India.
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Old 18th September 2006, 14:30   #3
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Those wondering about "Atutomatic accident prevention systems", my guess is since radar technology is severly regulated under Indian law, these machines will have difficulty.
Most manufacturers choose to remove such tech, and then claim govt's responsibility.

BMW here does not have an option. They dont have any place to put the spare wheel.

Whats the solution?
1. Relinquish govt control. Have an autonomous body with representatives from automobile faternity and form an independent body
2. NCAP etc., already have a good reputation. So India can approve cars approved by them in safety parameters. No need to reinvent the wheel.
3. Also cars allowed to be sold in west should be allowed here. Their norms are sticter. For example Euro norms for emission etc.,
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Old 18th September 2006, 15:16   #4
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Read the article, para 2 line 3. It says "all BMW models don't have space for a spare wheel." Wrong, checked new 5-series pictures and it does have space for a spare wheel. This is what happens when journos get trigger happy and write anything when they get half baked information.

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Old 18th September 2006, 15:47   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvmaster
Read the article, para 2 line 3. It says "all BMW models don't have space for a spare wheel." Wrong, checked new 5-series pictures and it does have space for a spare wheel. This is what happens when journos get trigger happy and write anything when they get half baked information.

Revv
Please read Para 8 Line 2 it clearly mentions that a spare in the 5-series is possible but 3-series is going to be difficult.

And I think ARAI should either be given a major revamp or abolished in favour of a more modern & up-to-date institute. The equipment and facilities present there are hardly capable of testing the modern cars being launched here. I recently had the oppurtuninty of listening to a senior officer in ARAI during a conference and as far as I could tell all he did was quote the rule book to us. The fellow was a typical Govt. servant, he knew the rule book inside out but had practically no knowledge about automobiles and today's changing market scenario.

As far as I know testing procedures for many equipment is still hugely outdated & hardly relevant in today's market scenario. No wonder most cars how so ever outdated still pass the ARAI tests.

IMHO the institute exists mainly to hassle new entrants into the Auto industry and make life difficult for low-volume manufacturers. If a car like the BMW 3 & 5 series passes every possible tests worldwide does it really need to be tested by an outdated, piece of crap institute like ARAI?? Can't we have a system where a resposible, up-to-date testing body's certification is good enough for our goverment boffins? (eg. the EURO NCAP test for safety)
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Old 18th September 2006, 15:50   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
Please read Para 8 Line 2 it clearly mentions that a spare in the 5-series is possible but 3-series is going to be difficult.
Apologies. Guess I was trigger happy in this case.

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Old 18th September 2006, 16:30   #7
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IMO, rather than having an India-specific body (ARAI) to regulate any foreign auto manufacturer's entry into Indian automobile industry (in actual, its just a place to park some of our BABUs), our government should accept EURO NCAP certified cars.
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Old 18th September 2006, 16:48   #8
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does it hold if there is a cut in the sidewall ?
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Old 18th September 2006, 17:01   #9
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The following link will throw some light on our understanding regarding the "run-flat" technology.

http://www.etyres.co.uk/run-flat-tyres
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Old 19th September 2006, 11:55   #10
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While its true that ARAI has been a hindrance in this particular case and probably a few other cases, it is not just right to paint them yellow and say 'oh lets do away with them'.

ARAI has done quite bit of work with regard to emission regulations, testing procrdures and a whole lot of other areas. The difference between Indian and European emission norms were close to 15 years a few years back. This has been reduced to about 3 - 4 years now. It might be simple to say that they just adopted the existing norms there. That is not completely true, as they have modified the norms based on the Indian driving cycle and also the density of vehicle population (for 2 wheelers). They also work closely with the tranport departments of big cities like Delhi to improve on the PUC checking process.

Agreed that they currently do not have testing facilities (crash testing?) which are required in todays world, but that is being taken care of. Their existing facitlies at Pune and Gurgaon along with the VRDE facility at Ahmednagar are being upgraded. Additional facility is also being built at Chennai.

They ofcourse have the disadvantages of a typical government organisation, but the little which is being done today to ensure that vehicle manufacturers do not take people for a ride is done by ARAI.
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Old 19th September 2006, 20:10   #11
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I dont think the ARAI should stick their nose into whether we need a spare tire or not.

Have you ever wondered whey the billions of motorcycles running around dont have spare tires but every scooter has to have one. What does ARAI have to say about this.

PS: Looks like BMW dosent know how to pass cash under the table.
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Old 19th September 2006, 20:21   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower
PS: Looks like BMW dosent know how to pass cash under the table.
Good point !

But then they might also become impervious to customer response like Skoda. Most companies who pass cash under the table soon learn that 'sab chalta hain in India..just keep the palms of the right people greased constantly'.
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Old 19th September 2006, 20:58   #13
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Well guys, having a spare wheel is a major concern for i guess everyone who owns a car, and judging by the condition of Indian roads, it definately is a must.So when the BMW guys were road testing the 3 and 5 series cars in India last year.. the first thing we pointed out bout the 3 series was absolutely no provision for a spare wheel,Although the 5 series comes with a emergency spare wheel of size 135/80 R17 as an opiton which is still acceptable.To this they replied that the 3 series has been designed without the spare wheel as an option.This can be a major problem from the selling point of the 3 series as people cant go on replacing tyres every now and then.. even the 6 series does not have the option of a spare wheel, they dont even provide a wheel spanner and a jack!! agreed their technology is miles ahead.. but until our roads r upto their standards.. its gonna be difficult.. hope they find a viable solution..

Last edited by Maverick5490 : 19th September 2006 at 21:02.
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Old 19th September 2006, 21:15   #14
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Quote:
Well guys, having a spare wheel is a major concern for i guess everyone who owns a car, and judging by the condition of Indian roads, it definately is a must.So when the BMW guys were road testing the 3 and 5 series cars in India last year.. the first thing we pointed out bout the 3 series was absolutely no provision for a spare wheel,Although the 5 series comes with a emergency spare wheel of size 135/80 R17 as an opiton which is still acceptable.To this they replied that the 3 series has been designed without the spare wheel as an option.This can be a major problem from the selling point of the 3 series as people cant go on replacing tyres every now and then.. even the 6 series does not have the option of a spare wheel, they dont even provide a wheel spanner and a jack!! agreed their technology is miles ahead.. but until our roads r upto their standards.. its gonna be difficult.. hope they find a viable solution..
ARAI Zindaabaad!
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Old 19th September 2006, 21:42   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
Guess what is the biggest barrier for BMW to produce cars in India?

Run Flat technology.
This technology means that the spare wheel is not necessary.
So they dont have provision for spare wheel in their cars.
According to Indian regulations, a car without a spare tyre cannot be Homogelated. i.e. cant be assembled in India and sold etc., Import is the only route.

BMW officials are talking to ARAI, but have been hit by a wall of babudom.

Read it here

Can you think of other instances where due to this red tape so many projects have gotten delayed or India denied cutting edge tech(S class anyone?).

Note this is not limited to BMW.
The world over automobiles are evolving. We have IR vision, radar based collision avoidance,... the list goes on.
Our regulations date to british raj. Going by the red tapism in our govt, and importance given to automobile related issues, and the shortsightedness of the govt(remember, how long it took to draft a small car policy), more such hurdles will come up, and we will be the losers.
I'm sure being a government agency has its flaws anywhere in the world. But, we need to revisit whether the existence of ARAI has proven directly/indirectly beneficial to the common man and his car, rather than to the 0.5% populace in India that can afford Mercs,BMWs,Porsches, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Hummers, Minis, Rolls Royces, Bentleys and Maybachs. Heck, these are the owners who're never going to touch any part of their car except the rear seat; let alone bother to change a flat with the nonexistent stepney.

Some of the tests they do, for our public comsumption: http://www.araiindia.com/html/SHL.jsp
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