Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th January 2016, 20:35   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
StarScream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Noida/Delhi
Posts: 1,247
Thanked: 633 Times
Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
I don't think this can be called a scam by Maruti Suzuki to take advantage of the odd-even formula.
Nowhere did I say the SHVS system was made especially and just in time to take advantage of the odd-even rule. I cited that as an additional benefit to the various subsidies for hybrid and electric cars available in Delhi from the state and central governments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
The system is known as a mild hybrid. It is similar to the Civic hybrid in operation but on a much smaller scale.
I am very skeptical of the motor assist bit because Maruti seems to have replaced the interesting bits of this tech with cheaper, local technologies, while retaining the name and marketing spiel and there in lies the scam - lowering cost by taking govt subsidies when it doesn't deserve it.

This is how the original Suzuki SHVS system works:

So where's the lithium ion battery? I really don't think a slightly larger lead acid battery is the same thing or can do the same job. If Maruti's version is so great why isn't it available with their petrol engines? Why is it mated to a relatively more polluting technology i.e. diesel? It's a cynical decision, because that engine is inherently fuel efficient, even without the hybrid system it returned 26kmpl. The cat would have been out of the bag with petrol engines because there would be little or no boost in fuel efficiency and people would wonder what the "hybrid" is about.

Last edited by Technocrat : 13th January 2016 at 01:30. Reason: Please quote selectively as a large quoted post causes inconvenience to our mobile readers, thanks
StarScream is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2016, 21:00   #17
BHPian
 
coldice4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Delhi
Posts: 156
Thanked: 86 Times
Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

Clean cars or not, it doesnt help the purpose. The main objective should be getting cars off the road. Less cars on the road = buses move faster = less traffic jams = cars move faster = less pollution.

Its a win win for all.

Last edited by GTO : 13th January 2016 at 13:24. Reason: Mod Note : Please avoid typing with excessive dots.........like................this. Thanks
coldice4u is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2016, 21:11   #18
BHPian
 
anand.shankar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 245
Thanked: 267 Times
Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

Instead of all these J-I-T antics the Govts should chalk out a long term solution. Something they can do right now is invite Arcimoto guys to setup an unit in India and Produce the SRK locally. Seems to be such a thrilling and clean option/alternate to Car/Bikes. There might be many more models/brands, quoting this as an example. We should ideally be focused on improving non fossil fuel and Public transit options instead such restrictive measures.
anand.shankar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2016, 23:01   #19
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HR 51/HR 29
Posts: 498
Thanked: 946 Times
Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

This seems nothing more than a creatively named start-stop system with mild brake energy regeneration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Maruti mentions that the ISG can even provide little torque back to the crank.
I don't see how this is possible. The is no motor or anything such which is powered by the battery and assisting the engine.
Shreyans_Jain is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2016, 00:55   #20
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 51
Thanked: 79 Times
Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
This seems nothing more than a creatively named start-stop system with mild brake energy regeneration.

I don't see how this is possible. The is no motor or anything such which is powered by the battery and assisting the engine.
We own an Ertiga SHVS in our family but my views are technical and unbiased.

Indeed there is an integrated motor generator (ISG). During deceleration, ISG acts as a generator and stores energy from the wheels in the battery and during Start-Stop and acceleration, ISG acts as a motor to start the ICE and to assist it respectively.

SHVS is not merely a start-stop system similar to the ones in Scorpio, TUV, etc. It is a mild hybrid technology but in small scale. In SHVS, apart from Start-Stop and brake energy recuperation, there is a feature called torque assist which assists (using recuperated energy) the ICE during acceleration but for a small time which helps in reducing FE as well as emissions slightly. Start-Stop together with torque assist will result in noticeable reduction in FE and emissions.

Comparing a car with SHVS with a normal car (you cannot buy big hybrid cars at the price of SHVS equipped cars) will tell you the difference in FE and emissions especially in city traffic situations if one uses start-stop option properly. Think about the reduction in emissions if 70% of the cars standing in red signal are switched off.

Of course SHVS is a small scale hybrid technology but a cheaper one also. Even if the gain is small still it is good considering the number of vehicles on the road.
Something is always better than nothing! So I feel Maruti did the good thing by bringing in SHVS at a cheaper price.

Untill now no other OEMs made any attempt to bring in such a cheap technology like SHVS which can reduce FE and emissions at least to a smaller amount in budget cars which forms the majority market share.
gopi_rm is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2016, 02:41   #21
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HR 51/HR 29
Posts: 498
Thanked: 946 Times
Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopi_rm View Post
Indeed there is an integrated motor generator (ISG). During deceleration, ISG acts as a generator and stores energy from the wheels in the battery and during Start-Stop and acceleration, ISG acts as a motor to start the ICE and to assist it respectively.
I am not saying that they are not offering something. But I'd refrain from calling the Ciaz a 'hybrid' of any kind simply because Maruti wants me to do so.

Their regenerative braking system helps charge the battery. The ISG (the advanced starter/self) uses this stored energy to start the engine. OK, it makes sense. I am willing to buy that.

It is the claimed assist part that I am skeptical about. How does this work? How exactly is the power transmitted? How much is transmitted? For how long? There are no clear answers to these questions.

Last edited by Shreyans_Jain : 13th January 2016 at 02:43.
Shreyans_Jain is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2016, 05:42   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
carwatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bardez, Goa
Posts: 1,185
Thanked: 999 Times
Default

This move looks like Govt validating someone affixing 4x4 sticker on its car as real 4x4.
It does nothing but dilutes the seriousness of the whole concept of Hybrid cars.
But we shouldn't be complaining as we have a "Car" by name Scorpio, an "SUV" by name Creta and another "SUV" coming up named KUV100.
carwatcher is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2016, 06:59   #23
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 89
Thanked: 29 Times
Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

This rule will result rise in demand for "SHVS" cars errr.. badges.
How do they intend to check if the someone has just not stuck the SHVS badge on a car to get away from odd-even rule?
flycatcher is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2016, 08:45   #24
Distinguished - BHPian
 
audioholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BengaLuru
Posts: 3,257
Thanked: 4,990 Times
Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

This is one Smaaartt move by Maruti. Forget all the technology, hybrid or no hybrid, blah blah blah. Just one ad campaign about how these cars are exempt from the scheme will push sales like anything. Majority of the people dont even bother about why and whats inside. The very fact that they can take these cars daily without any rule implications will make them prefer these cars. Whoever devised this idea at MSIL will get a nice raise.

By devising the idea, not the idea of SHVS. The plan of convincing the government that these cars must be exempted from the rule. Definitely not a voluntary action from the government without some convincing and explaining.
audioholic is online now   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2016, 08:54   #25
BHPian
 
gaurav_3000ad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Delhi's belly
Posts: 67
Thanked: 221 Times
Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

Someone from maruti must have pitched a damn fine PowerPoint to the Delhi govt honchos.

My two cents to the Delhi govt would be - If you want to implement the odd-even scheme then go all out and implement it without liniencies and dilutions. Stop mimicking the caste based quota system that's already plaguing the education system. This has no end to it.
gaurav_3000ad is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2016, 09:12   #26
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 211
Thanked: 155 Times
Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

Does Ciaz SHVS perform better than the regular Ciaz Diesel when it comes to emission controls?

Does Ciaz SHVS perform better than even the Ciaz Petrol when it comes to emission controls?
searacer932 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2016, 09:41   #27
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 56
Thanked: 50 Times
Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

I guess now we can see the so called "hybrid" technology spawning on everything with wheels. Imagine SVHS on autos and motorbikes just to beat the odd-even rule. Good potential for business too if someone develops an after market hybrid kit with say a UPS battery and motor from a mixer/grinder.... :-)

Last edited by anish5225 : 13th January 2016 at 10:01.
anish5225 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2016, 10:03   #28
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Rotterdam
Posts: 84
Thanked: 117 Times
Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

With this rule, I wonder if Maruti will plonk in the SHVS tech into all their diesel cars overnight, except celerio (which is not running on the 1.3L MJD engine). The demand for SHVS badges will skyrocket and it won't be long when we'll see an Alto SHVS on roads even before Maruti engineers can think of it!

If Delhi government is serious about implementing the odd even rule and giving exemption to hybrid vehicles, they should check with the ARAI to confirm the list of vehicles that are actually "pure hybrids". Further, ARAI should check if these "hybrids" are significantly less polluting than their non hybrid peers by testing these vehicles on a Dyno (most of the vehicles) or on a test track (specifically VW vehicles )

Last edited by govindremesh : 13th January 2016 at 10:04. Reason: Spelling mistakes
govindremesh is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2016, 11:03   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
theexperthand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,369
Thanked: 1,136 Times
Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopi_rm View Post
Start-Stop together with torque assist will result in noticeable reduction in FE and emissions.

Untill now no other OEMs made any attempt to bring in such a cheap technology like SHVS which can reduce FE and emissions at least to a smaller amount in budget cars which forms the majority market share.
Hi Gopi, I think you wanted to mention that the hybrid technology increases FE while reducing the pollution. It if really reduced the FE, I am sure Maruti (or most of the other manufacturers) wouldn't have touched it with a barge pole, even if it cuts emission by 50% or more

--Anoop
theexperthand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2016, 11:19   #30
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 51
Thanked: 79 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
Hi Gopi, I think you wanted to mention that the hybrid technology increases FE while reducing the pollution. It if really reduced the FE, I am sure Maruti (or most of the other manufacturers) w
========
--Anoop

Anoop thanks for pointing out. It was a typo mistake. I meant that it reduces fuel consumption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopi_rm View Post
We own an Ertiga SHVS in our family but my views are technical and unbiased.
===================
Untill now no other OEMs made any attempt to bring in such a cheap technology like SHVS which can reduce FE and emissions at least to a smaller amount in budget cars which forms the majority market share.

Apologies for my typo error. In all the instances I meant SHVS reduces fuel consumption and not FE.
gopi_rm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maruti Ciaz ZDi+ SHVS - 30,000 km of companionship! ptaneja Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 199 13th December 2017 11:44
Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days. EDIT: Rd 3 from 13th Nov - Now Cancelled Rajeevraj Street Experiences 668 8th December 2017 08:44
Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now launched! RavenAvi The Indian Car Scene 204 9th June 2016 08:01
After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system? MSAneesh Street Experiences 70 18th February 2016 12:33


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:33.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks