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Old 12th January 2016, 16:02   #1
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Default Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

While this is a good news for the owners, does this actually help to reduce pollution to a great extent? On the other hand, such move will inspire manufacturers to provide a better technology. This comes days after a news that Maharashtra govt will not tax electric vehicles.

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Maruti recently launched its fuel-saving SHVS tech in India and the first model to benefit from it was the Ciaz sedan equipped with the 89bhp 1.3-litre diesel engine. The carmaker also added this feature in the facelifted Ertiga diesel which also comes with the same engine. Since these two models come with Maruti’s SHVS system that includes a start-stop mechanism and other upgrades (See below), they qualify as 'hybrids' and hence fall in the exempted list. Apart from this, both these models also qualify for the subsidy extension of around Rs 13,000 under the Government of India’s electric and hybrid vehicle policy also known as the FAME scheme.
Details : http://m.autocarindia.com/Article.as...9569&type=News

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Last edited by swiftnfurious : 12th January 2016 at 16:08.
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Old 12th January 2016, 16:11   #2
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Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
While this is a good news for the owners, does this actually help to reduce pollution to a great extent? On the other hand, such move will inspire manufacturers to provide a better technology. This comes days after a news that Maharashtra govt will not tax electric vehicles.



Details : http://m.autocarindia.com/Article.as...9569&type=News

Mods, please merge if this doesn't warrant a new thread.
TUV300 also has this start-stop mechanism, let's see whether it will also be exempted.

Last edited by GTO : 13th January 2016 at 13:20. Reason: Typos
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Old 12th January 2016, 16:13   #3
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Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

Shouldn't the Mahindra SUVs (TUV, Scorpio, XUV) also benefit then?

They also have a start stop system (ironically called a Micro Hybrid) and even a braking regenerative system in their newer cars.
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Old 12th January 2016, 16:18   #4
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Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

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Originally Posted by ntomer View Post
TUV also have this start-stop mechanism, let's see whether it will also be exempted.
The SVHS system charges the battery as well. The Micro-Hybrid system on Mahindra products (XUV500, Scorpio & TUV300) doesn't charge the battery or create any energy, but just switches of the engine. I doubt they'll get an exemption. Remember, the SVHS technology is eligible for the FAME excise cut as well.

Front the above Autocar link,
Quote:
What is Maruti’s SHVS tech?

As reported earlier, the SHVS system comes with a start-stop technology uses an integrated starter generator (ISG) that functions as a battery charger during braking and acts as the starter motor when the stop-start technology is in use. The car also gets an electric boost via the Engine Power Assist system where the ISG supplements the engine’s power during acceleration. This happens at around 2,500rpm. The car also comes equipped with a gear shift indicator. Vehicles equipped with this system get a new high-capacity battery. The system uses a separate ‘U’ belt-driven starter/generator that also uses an additional idler and tensioner belt system to keep the belt firmly on the pulley.
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Old 12th January 2016, 16:22   #5
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Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
While this is a good news for the owners, does this actually help to reduce pollution to a great extent? On the other hand, such move will inspire manufacturers to provide a better technology. This comes days after a news that Maharashtra govt will not tax electric vehicles.



Details : http://m.autocarindia.com/Article.as...9569&type=News

Mods, please merge if this doesn't warrant a new thread.
This to me seems like a bit of a scam from the country's largest car maker. This is a mild hybrid at best and looks like an attempt to benefit from well-intentioned policies be it the Delhi exemption or benefits given to true hybrid and electric cars.

This story in the TOI today -- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/1...w/50541168.cms -- in the print edition carries with it a chart that shows pollution from diesel varies between 23% to 15.7% depending on the season. Petrol varies b/w 7.4% and 1.8%.

Last edited by StarScream : 12th January 2016 at 16:25.
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Old 12th January 2016, 16:23   #6
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Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

Err this is a really stretched definition of hybrid. By this definition all Volvos sold in India with Drive-E tech are also hybrids as they have a start stop system and brake energy regeneration.
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Old 12th January 2016, 16:31   #7
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Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

All this exempt or not, fun will end in 3 days.
So, even if your car is exempt, you can use it at best for 3 days.
Nobody is going to buy an Ertiga, or Ciaz just because it would be exempt from an Odd / Even formula carried out for 15 days.
We cannot predict what scheme will come in the future, and what formula they will stick to.
(It is altogether a different matter that, these are nice cars and there is a huge market for Ertiga and Ciaz for their practicality, and strong support, SHVS or not.)

Last edited by GTO : 13th January 2016 at 13:21. Reason: Typos
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Old 12th January 2016, 17:02   #8
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Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
Err this is a really stretched definition of hybrid. By this definition all Volvos sold in India with Drive-E tech are also hybrids as they have a start stop system and brake energy regeneration.
When I was considering a BMW, their brochure said this too - brake regeneration and start-stop. They call it Efficient Dynamics: http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...eneration.html
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Old 12th January 2016, 17:11   #9
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Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
When I was considering a BMW, their brochure said this too - brake regeneration and start-stop. They call it Efficient Dynamics: http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...eneration.html
Yes, they have been doing it for some time. Although they capture some energy that would have come from engine otherwise, it doesnt directly run the engine ! These small improvisations should actually be made mandatory.
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Old 12th January 2016, 17:26   #10
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Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

I don't think this can be called a scam by Maruti Suzuki to take advantage of the odd-even formula.

First, the two SHVS vehicles mentioned were launched well before the implementation or even announcement of the policy.

Second, it takes a long while to develop such a micro-hybrid system (which is what it truly is) and implement it in a car, so it's not as if Maruti Suzuki came out with this system to hoodwink the Delhi government and its ill-advised odd-even formula.

Third, and most importantly, this is a system that actually provides assistance to the engine in powering the car (even if it is only at a certain rpm range). As mentioned in the article quoted by swiftnfurious:

Quote:
The car also gets an electric boost via the Engine Power Assist system where the ISG supplements the engine’s power during acceleration. This happens at around 2,500rpm.
The other systems that do not qualify for the exemption are not hybrid systems by any stretch of the imagination! Start-stop technology and brake energy regeneration do not provide any assistance to the engine in powering the car.

However "mild" or "micro" a hybrid the SHVS system implemented by Maruti Suzuki may be, it does provide the engine some assistance to power the car. This undeniable fact technically makes it a hybrid, and it therefore gets its due by being exempted along with other hybrid vehicles like the Prius, Camry Hybrid and Civic Hybrid.

Maruti Suzuki's SHVS sounds very similar to Nissan's S-HYBRID system found on their Serena. The main difference is that Nissan's system uses an additional battery (source):

Quote:
The S-HYBRID powertrain equipped in the Serena is a simple and compact hybrid system. It mounts an upgraded version of the ECO motor used in the existing Serena, and serves as an auxiliary motor to increase power output and power generation capabilities. The hybrid system also adds a sub battery for increased storage capacity, which fits in the current engine compartment.

Last edited by RSR : 12th January 2016 at 17:55.
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Old 12th January 2016, 17:29   #11
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Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Yes, they have been doing it for some time. Although they capture some energy that would have come from engine otherwise, it doesnt directly run the engine ! These small improvisations should actually be made mandatory.
I never said it powers the wheels. In fact that raises the question from the explanation for SHVS - does it power the wheels? If so, how does a starter generator do that job?
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Old 12th January 2016, 17:59   #12
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Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
When I was considering a BMW, their brochure said this too - brake regeneration and start-stop. They call it Efficient Dynamics: http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...eneration.html
Yes, the BMW F30 320 D has this feature.

Exempt that too!
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Old 12th January 2016, 18:04   #13
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Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
This to me seems like a bit of a scam from the country's largest car maker. This is a mild hybrid at best and looks like an attempt to benefit from well-intentioned policies be it the Delhi exemption or benefits given to true hybrid and electric cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
Err this is a really stretched definition of hybrid. By this definition all Volvos sold in India with Drive-E tech are also hybrids as they have a start stop system and brake energy regeneration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
I never said it powers the wheels. In fact that raises the question from the explanation for SHVS - does it power the wheels? If so, how does a starter generator do that job?
The system is known as a mild hybrid. It is similar to the Civic hybrid in operation but on a much smaller scale.

The alternator and starter motor is replaced by a single unit known as the ISG (integrated starter motor generator).

The ISG can start the engine and stop it like the Mahindra Micro hybrid system.

When coasting or braking the ISG works like a generator and charges the battery (larger battery vs the regular diesel Ciaz).

Maruti mentions that the ISG can even provide little torque back to the crank.

BMW efficient dynamics and the new XUV has similar tech but that only charges the battery under coasting or braking. This system is even lower. This way doesn't put the alternator load on the engine thereby improving FE.
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Old 12th January 2016, 20:14   #14
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Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

Looks like lobbying by Maruti rather than anything else.
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Old 12th January 2016, 20:30   #15
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Default re: Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Looks like lobbying by Maruti rather than anything else.
Correct, need to give it some other name. Even I can manually switch off my car and call myself hybrid.

That is not hybrid. This is Hybrid -
(Toyota Prius or Reva are real hybrids)
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Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule-001.jpg  

Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule-003.jpg  

Maruti Ertiga & Ciaz diesels with SHVS exempt from Delhi's odd-even rule-004.jpg  


Last edited by aerohit : 12th January 2016 at 20:58.
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