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Old 29th August 2016, 13:59   #106
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

This move looks weird. Launching only i20 auto in the Magna variant doesn't make sense, at least to me. They should have launched it in the Sportz variant, which is fairly loaded, at the least if not for the top variant.
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Old 29th August 2016, 14:31   #107
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

Thanks for the scoop Nipcarlover!!

Looks like a torque converter rather than a CVT. And Magna variant is disappointing as well.
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Old 29th August 2016, 14:59   #108
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

Quite disappointing, infact we were in the market for an auto and i20 was in the wish lift. But if they are going to launch it in base models only, that option fly's out! What are they thinking? Do they just want to say cheapest auto box in the segment and be happy with it?

This is a good car and could benefit well if they offer the Auto in both low and high end models. And seriously how much of production effort it would be to spec it that way? Or is that the top end models are export priority and we have to be satisfied with low specs step brotherly treatment??
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Old 29th August 2016, 16:26   #109
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Quite disappointing, infact we were in the market for an auto and i20 was in the wish lift. But if they are going to launch it in base models only, that option fly's out! What are they thinking? Do they just want to say cheapest auto box in the segment and be happy with it?

This is a good car and could benefit well if they offer the Auto in both low and high end models. And seriously how much of production effort it would be to spec it that way? Or is that the top end models are export priority and we have to be satisfied with low specs step brotherly treatment??
I think it is purely the cost. Consider the 2012 i20 Price below.

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As we can see, the AT variant commanded an almost 2 Lakh premium over the equivalent manual variant. The Automatic premium has not changed much for Hyundai even today, the additional tax and stuff has also not changed as far as I know, so it would be fair to assume that the new AT Magna that is coming will be priced ~2L more than the manual variant.

Today the Elite i20 Magna MT costs around 6.15L (Ex showroom Delhi). Add the AT and 1.4L premium, we are looking at an Ex Showroom of ~8 Lakhs. The Baleno Zeta AT is at 7.8 and the Jazz V AT sits at 8.21.

With similar extrapolation An Elite i20 Sportz Variant AT would be 8.5-8.6 L Ex Showroom, An Asta would be 9-9.1L and an Asta (O) would be 9.5L. The last two would even go beyond the GT TSI.

So my take is that they are just launching it to have it in the portfolio and at a first look compare it sits nicely between the Jazz and Baleno. I assume it would perform better than the Jazz and Baleno due to the larger engine and traditional torque converter. I guess they will see the response and maybe launch it in the Sportz variant later. Like Maruti did with the Baleno.

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 29th August 2016 at 16:30.
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Old 29th August 2016, 21:26   #110
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

Bare bones Magna variant + bare bones ice-age 4-speed AT? No thank you , Hyundai. I stopped expecting anything of value from this company. Number one seller Maruti still does offer you excellent value for your money but not Hyundai any more. And they are getting greedier by the day. i10, i20 and Creta success has gone to their head. IMO, their cars are not worth what they charge.
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Old 29th August 2016, 21:48   #111
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

Three back to back ICOTY's has given Hyundai a 'superiority' complex! If news is to be believed then the i20 AT is a 'stillborn' product. Bare bones+High Price=No thanks, Hyundai!
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Old 29th August 2016, 22:10   #112
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Quite disappointing, infact we were in the market for an auto and i20 was in the wish lift. But if they are going to launch it in base models only, that option fly's out! What are they thinking? Do they just want to say cheapest auto box in the segment and be happy with it?

This is a good car and could benefit well if they offer the Auto in both low and high end models. And seriously how much of production effort it would be to spec it that way? Or is that the top end models are export priority and we have to be satisfied with low specs step brotherly treatment??
+1 exactly my thoughts and I could easily quote some 20 others who share the same frustration. Whats appalling is this is the same story with all the manufactures, not offering AT in top variants!! Frankly I can't put my anger/disbelief in words therefore I will just quote myself. Something I have posted almost a year back on another thread is pretty much relevant here:

Quote:
What is it with these car manufacturers and their new launches? Creta,Jazz and now Baleno all offerings of auto variants don't have top end model!! If you are giving increase in price as the reason, baffling to say the least. They think prospective buyers looking for convenient of auto box don't crave for all the safety features and gizmos of top end model? They couldn't be anymore wrong Give customer choices let him choose what works best for him, let the buyer decide what is expensive. It's not that you have to keep separate inventory for auto top variants, as the same features/spares are already available for manual transmission. May be one day,one day I will understand the brilliant logic behind it.
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Old 29th August 2016, 22:14   #113
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

Their existing 1.2 litre engine with a CVT would have been the best option from price (maximum Rs. 1 Lac premium over manual), technology and fuel economy point of view. Micra, Baleno and Jazz all have CVTs, Polo has a DSG and i20 has a what again?
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Old 30th August 2016, 00:31   #114
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

Firstly the 1.4 (1368 cc) litre engine isn't the problem, in fact this engine comes closest to the 1.4 (1341/1399 cc) engines of the legendary Getz.. its just right for a car of this size and when paired with the correct gearbox will be simply perfect for city driving - neither as sluggish as their all time bestseller+dud the 1.2 Kappa nor as fuel inefficient as 1.6 litre engines. I wonder why they didn't simply lift the 1.4 engine of the Getz (1399 cc DOHC) into the i20 since inception. The under 1.2 Indian regulation for reduction of excise duties has done more harm to the environment in ways one cannot imagine, a 1.2 in a car the size of i20 or Polo cannot make for a good drive AT ALL and hence demand for 1.5, 1.6 & 2 litre engines are booming more than ever before. This foolish regulation killed off the best petrol engine family of Hyundai - the Alpha.

Also after starting off making engines with near-instant torque, fantastic gearing flexibility and superb refinement, to cater to the masses they've gone the efficiency route and hence each engine therefrom has the following signature "improvements" :

1) Reduce the cubic capacity by fraction percentages.
2) Reduce torque all through the band, specially early on.
3) Add dual VTVT *dual facepalm*
4) Name the engines after Greco-Phoenician alphabets in continuing order, rightly so their first line of 1.3 litre engines were called Alpha (ultimate) and current is called K (Kappa, 10th in line), if so I shudder to imagine what the rest of them starting with Xi through Omega will feel like.

I'm happy that they've brought this engine to India though, I hope it even makes it to the manual cars of i20/Active. The gearbox can be forgiven for being 4-speed as this engine can provide enough and more grunt for city speeds even with poor tuning of gears. However they did the one thing I imagined they would the minute I heard the 1.4 engine is going to be paired to an automatic - introduce it only in the lowest variants to reduce price. Very, very poor planning. The rear-wiper missing alongwith better tyres really take away the luxury aspect of having an automatic. There surely is a market for a 10-11 lakh i20 Automatic, even if it's only a couple of hundred a month, they've lost all these sales now.

I hope in a years time or so, the 1.2 Kappa is relegated only to the ranks of Grand i10. The new 1.4 should be the standard for i20 and up (its good enough even for the Verna & Creta).
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Old 30th August 2016, 19:12   #115
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

First, I'm absolutely delighted to learn that Hyundai are finally doing justice to the Asta(O) variant of the i20! The previous generation i20 Asta(O) was a tremendous path-breaker for providing the first ever side & curtain airbags in a car costing less than a million rupees.

Sadly, while Hyundai created the path, they most stupidly abandoned it when the current i20 was launched without an Asta(O). Continuing with their stupidity, they just provided a touchscreen SAT-NAV system and called it Asta(O) [although its projector headlamps, additional LED DRLs & dedicated cornering lamps were very useful & welcome]. Ford gleefully grabbed the opportunity thrown away by Hyundai, by selling the EcoSport Titanium(O) & Titanium AT, and then, in a knock-out move, by introducing the superbly positioned Titanium+ variants of the Figo & Aspire twins.

The Ford Figo & Aspire were making an utter mockery of the supposed "premium" hatchbacks positioned above them by providing the very important side & curtain airbags (that the premium hatchbacks didn't!) After they finally make amends with the new Asta(O), Hyundai can join Ford in rolling on the floor and laughing about those 4m hatchbacks that claim to be "premium" but simply don't have side & curtain airbags on offer.

God bless competition! It took a competitor in the form of the Blue Oval to shame Hyundai into doing the right thing by re-introducing a proper Asta(O) with side & curtain airbags on the new i20. Yeah, I know a sunroof may still be missing, but in India, I'll take a touchscreen SAT-NAV system over a sunroof any day, thank you. I guess the Asta(O) also gets speed-sensing auto door locks, finally!

That said, the fools who decide the variants at Hyundai have exposed their stupidity yet again, by offering the new 1.4 AT in the Magna trim only. What on God's Earth were they thinking?!? The ideal variants to offer the AT would be Sportz & the new Asta(O). Providing an AT on the Magna trim level alone simply defies common sense!

It's never too late to make amends. Hyundai should offer the 1.4 AT on the Asta(O) as well ASAP!

Otherwise, I quite welcome the new 1.4 litre twin-cam Kappa Dual VTVT belting out 100 PS & 13.5 kgm of torque mated to the 4-speed torque converter gearbox. After Volkswagen's 1.2 litre turbo-petrol (105 PS & 17.8 kgm) & 7-speed DSG which is in a league of its own, this is the next best mechanical choice in this segment.

The ever-whining, noisy, kill-joy, glorified rubber band transmissions * which are mated to those two puny 80 ~ 90 PS 1.2 litre NA engines just don't come close, and one of those 1.2 litre engines (i.e. Honda's) has a vintage, archaic & utterly outdated single-cam mechanism as well.

* - I guess one really cannot (& should not!) use the term "gearbox" for a mechanism that's very similar to the manual method of drawing water from a surface well - Heave Ho! Heave Ho! Halt. Catch a breath. Heave Ho! Heave Ho! Halt. Catch a breath. Repeat.

Last edited by RSR : 30th August 2016 at 19:36.
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Old 31st August 2016, 10:04   #116
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
The ever-whining, noisy, kill-joy, glorified rubber band transmissions * which are mated to those two puny 80 ~ 90 PS 1.2 litre NA engines just don't come close, and one of those 1.2 litre engines (i.e. Honda's) has a vintage, archaic & utterly outdated single-cam mechanism as well.[/i]
Hi, while agreeing to your post above, I would only differ on this last point.

In the real-world driving scenario where we are most often stuck in bumper-to-bumper measly crawling or stop & go traffic, it doesn't really matter if we call the CVTs as rubbery transmission mated to an archaic single-cam engine. This is because in the real world driving scenarios, CVTs are arguably better in terms of fuel efficiency (speed doesn't really matter when you are in crawling traffic any ways) compared to the rather archaic 4-speed torque converter that Hyundai uses.

In the end, we all know that the torque converters are arguably less fuel efficient (take the case of our Creta Review forum where members are noticing that the real world fuel efficiency of the 6-speed AT is nothing to be proud about). TO moot my point, also read the reviews of Honda JAZZ CVT/Honda City CVT and see the real world fuel efficiency and how the members often mention how pleasant these are to use in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

I would rather suffer a rubber-bandesque AT box in a Honda car which is given quite a few creature comforts, rather than the one which is mated to a new engine but a rather archaic gearbox and also which is devoid of any creature comforts (Hyundai's Magna trim) because it just doesn't cut it for me and a million others like me.

What was Hyundai smoking when they decided to launch the i20 AT only in the Magna trim ! I want that !
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Old 31st August 2016, 10:37   #117
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post

God bless competition!

It's never too late to make amends. Hyundai should offer the 1.4 AT on the Asta(O) as well ASAP!
[/i]
Quote:
Originally Posted by toofanwheels View Post
Hi, while agreeing to your post above, I would only differ on this last point.
i20 AT :

+ve ------ good engine
opinion varies on ------ 4 speed gearbox (some calling it archaic, some calling it mechanically superior and engaging than CVT)
-ve -------- magna variant misses out on a lot of features

Jazz AT:

+ve -------- V variant has most of the required features
opinion varies on ---------- CVT (some calling it whiny, some calling it newer with better FE on road)
-ve ---------- Small 1.2L engine in a big hatch, CVT oil maintenance (??)


Figo/Aspire AT

+ve --------- good features on Titanium variant, 1.5L Engine
opinion varies on ---------- reliability of the 6 speed DCT gearbox
-ve ----------- doesn't sell that much in spite of having the necessary bells and whistles, absence of so called 'Ford feeling'

Ecosport AT

+ve --------- good features on Titanium variant, 1.5L engine
opinion varies on ---------- reliability of the 6 speed DCT gearbox
-ve ----------- nothing much, maybe whimsical pricing and under attack from Brezza


Baleno AT

+ve ------ Maruti backup, good features on Zeta variant
opinion varies on ---------- CVT (some calling it whiny, some calling it newer with better FE on road)
-ve ---------- Only sold via Nexa, Small 1.2L engine in a big hatch, CVT oil maintenance (??)

Does that mean in real world, the Figo/Aspire/Ecosport ATs offer better bang for your buck than i20/Jazz/Baleno AT?

Last edited by blackasta : 31st August 2016 at 10:45.
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Old 31st August 2016, 11:15   #118
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackasta View Post
i20 AT :

Does that mean in real world, the Figo/Aspire/Ecosport ATs offer better bang for your buck than i20/Jazz/Baleno AT?
All I know is that i20 AT offers ZERO bang for the buck if it launches the car with this particular slushbox (4-speed) and the Magna variant combination- and its totally a fair observation ! Forget what others are offering here- i20 AT falls woefully short of competition (Hyundai must realize that the competition has really upped the game in the current times in this segment) because of these 2 factors and that about sums it up!

Had it even offered the 6-speed AT in a Sportz/Asta trim, then Figo/Aspire/Jazz/Polo and even the strong Baleno would have been running for cover. That is the whole point of discussion.

Hyundai is NOT doing what it CAN do to tap a rapidly growing market. It just has to do a rejig and it can set the charts on fire. Take the case of Creta- Hyundai (and even Maruti) missed the trend of launching crossovers/urban SUVs. When Hyundai decided to finally enter the fray, look what it has achieved- Creta has been a segment topper now for a while despite being overpriced and missing out ONLY ON SOME features that the market does not think are critical.

In case of i20- the missing of even critical features like a touchscreen (its becoming a raging trend these days), rear parking camera and on top of that providing only an age old 4 speed gearbox will definitely make them realize that the customers cannot be taken for granted. It may have been lucky with the Creta, but not necessarily with the i20 AT.

Just my observation.

Last edited by toofanwheels : 31st August 2016 at 11:18.
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Old 31st August 2016, 12:30   #119
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackasta View Post
Does that mean in real world, the Figo/Aspire/Ecosport ATs offer better bang for your buck than i20/Jazz/Baleno AT?
If they are going to launch with the 2 lakh ex showroom price difference (as they did in the previous gen), am not sure on takers for i20 AT. The i20 Magna AT OTR price will probably be on par or exceed Aspire Titanium AT's OTR pricing.

If i10 AT's FE is anything to go by, i20's FE will be a further 1-2 kmpl south. So you are looking at a 9.5-10 lakh INR that's going to give you about 6-8 kmpl in city conditions, so neither are your upfront cost low nor the running cost, if you compare with competition.

To top it all, you get a much lower trim in comparison for the price paid.

As a former Hyundai owner, I was expecting a better gearbox on the i20 in comparison to i10. Was expecting them to introduce a Diesel AT (a few pages back).
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Old 31st August 2016, 15:18   #120
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Default re: Why is Hyundai stubbornly not launching the Elite i20 Automatic? EDIT: Launched at 9.01 lakhs!

Let me share my feelings on the upcoming Elite i20 1.2L AT Magna:

a) The larger engine crosses the tax threshold of 1.2L, so Hyundai might have just decided to test launch it in the Magna variant to avoid sticker shock, and if market demand picks up, they could launch it in the Sportz variant at a later date. (Though at current prices of the Elite i20, how much could Hyundai possibly shock more is debatable as all shock is already served)

b) A typical auto gearbox buyer, with the exception of some people who treat cars as white goods, looks for convenience features. Touchscreen stereo, navigation, rear-view camera, alloys and the like may be added as accessories, but driver height adjustable driver's seat and auto fold mirrors cannot be. They are must have features in the price band that the Elite i20 sells in.

c) A 4 Speed gearbox is adequate in the city, but it may make the car feel strained on more open roads. Refinement levels and fuel efficiency also may go southwards with a 4 speed AT.

But what are the alternatives available?

1) Maruti Baleno CVT: If you can get one, this makes the most sense.

2) Nissan Micra CVT: Old car, inconsistent company.

3) Honda Jazz CVT: Sorry to say this, but having driven one for a full day recently, and a City CVT the next day, I have to say the current Jazz is a very poor job from Honda. Other than the exterior styling, there is nothing that would tempt me to buy one.

4) Volkswagen Polo GT TSi DSG: A friend has one, and what a car it is! I never miss an opportunity to drive it. But the Volkswagen - DSG tags on it scare me to no small extent so when it is buying time, I would avoid it just like a diabetic looking the other way when gulab- jamun is served.

So what is the sum of all these?

If I were in the market, I would wait some more months to see if Hyundai launches the Sportz variant.

Or wait to see if Maruti is going to sell the 1.0L Boosterjet Baleno with an automatic gearbox.

Last edited by Yeldo : 31st August 2016 at 15:20.
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