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Old 15th February 2017, 14:47   #466
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

While all of us can comment about the prices that have obviously risen with time for these Honda city cars as well, it will seem nothing when you compare them to the European cars. Compare todays price of any car like Skoda Superb, 3 Series or the Audi and Mercs. You will notice that some of these Europeans cost nearly 70% more then their models 5 years back.

Each one will buy what they find value in. Prospective buyers can look at the European cars price rise and feel happy that the Japanese have atleast not gone beyond reach.

Another point to note is that in 2010 when I had bought my city, almost everyone including Tbhp community did not love it and considered it too bland and feature lacking. Now it has all features and we still crib.
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Old 15th February 2017, 15:17   #467
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

I have not seen the new City. Apparently the interior finish seems to be a notch higher particularly in the top model and my daughter, who is very fussy and wanted an upgrade from her i20, just went ahead and booked the ZX CVT Petrol in Bhubaneshwar.

Tentative date for delivery is 10 Apr 2017.

Last edited by nkghai : 15th February 2017 at 15:18. Reason: typo
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Old 15th February 2017, 15:43   #468
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With VW Vento Highline Plus priced at 14.09 ex showroom Mumbai, it will be the most expensive car of the segment!
The bookings and delivery of the same have already started.
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Old 15th February 2017, 15:45   #469
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Haha seems like people want more features but they don't want the price to increase.

I have said this and will say it again. New City is a premium product and it demands a premium pricing.

Few years back Mercedes launched B Class making 100 BHP, nobody cribbed as it was a Mercedes. Honda increases price by lakh or two, everyone loses their minds.

Let's see the competition.
Ciaz : Basically a low powered City clone.
Verna : Poor dynamics.
Vento : Unreliable automatic gearbox and fuel injector issues. Very mediocre NA petrol engine. Turbocharged though good, makes considerably low power.
Skoda Rapid : Rebranded Vento. Again, very mediocre petrol engines. More than the car, the service attracts greater horror.
Sunny : Mediocre engines and all about backseat.
Compact "SUVs" : Not even comparable. Basically overgrown hatchbacks.
Duster : Too old in the tooth.

Honda on the other hand, offers Segment first features.

Everyone's comparing the new City's prices to D segment sedans but have you noticed that D segment cars cost upwards of 20 lakhs?

Unfortunately, you can't have your cake and eat it too. I rest my case.

Last edited by The Brutailer : 15th February 2017 at 15:57.
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Old 15th February 2017, 15:52   #470
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Yoichiro Ueno, MD & CEO, Honda has released a press statement today that should probably explain the higher pricing of the City, and the widening of the price gap with respect to the Ciaz and S-Cross -

"The brand positioning is thus being scaled up. We now have a strategy to maintain our traditional positioning, which is a bit more premium though not luxury. So, we would like to target customers a bit different from Maruti or Hyundai. We would like to do that in terms of products, service, and customer experience."
I wonder what the heck he has been smoking! He doesn't want to attract people from 70% of the market, so I really wonder how Honda is strategizing these days. Good for them if they want to compete with the laggards and not market leaders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
This also widens the gap with the popular Ciaz and Maruti will be more than happy with this upwards shift in the City. The Ciaz is now in a segment of it's own between the compact sedans and the City, Vento, Rapid which are trying move into a segment they absolutely do not belong.
Agreed and can only hope Maruti doesn’t try to do another S-Cross like pricing with the Nexa Ciaz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N4Nikunj View Post
Honda City 2017 ZX is 16.8L on-road Ahmadabad. So as per my observation i will happily buy Ciaz instead, Which is costing around 11.3L on road. Now if we consider rumors of Ciaz face lift and in future and if Ciaz gets 1.6L unit still its cost will nowhere close to City ZX.
Plonk in an automatic TCSS in that monster and it might just become a best seller. It will still be cheaper than the City and offer technology at par with the DSG cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
On the other side of the coin, if the management at Honda Cars India thinks that they can pull off a "Creta" with the 2017 City's pricing, I think they are in for a very unpleasant surprise, once the initial brouhaha dies down.
Hyundai took a gamble and it paid off. But, there have been no many failures as well, including from Honda itself: S-Cross, Mobilio, BRV etc. I for one, like you, don’t see this happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
And Verna and Ciaz themselves are no epitome of quality. City is the best all rounder and sales all these years prove it. And am pretty sure they would've addressed any issues in this launch.
I don’t think past sales figures account for the competition which has seriously become strong of late. In 2016, Ciaz outsold the City. With the facelift Verna and Ciaz coming up, life is gonna be really tough for the City.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
How can it be so expensive?? Beats me!
Words out of my mouth! Bewildering. But then, as someone from Honda said, they want to create a premium segment. I wonder how they’ll do that by offering an average product. Branding of City alone can’t pull it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adarsh76 View Post
Waiting for the TBHP review.
If at all, will just cover the cosmetic changes considering there aren’t any mechanical changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
Few years back Mercedes launched B Class making 100 BHP, nobody cribbed as it was a Mercedes. Honda increases price by lakh or two, everyone loses their minds.
Mercedes quality wasn't compromised. The City quality is pathetic. I have an Altis and the City, and the quality is not even remotely comparable.

Last edited by avdhesh15 : 15th February 2017 at 16:05.
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Old 15th February 2017, 15:58   #471
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
I have said this and will say it again. New City is a premium product and it demands a premium pricing
How is it a premium product? and how long has this same model existed in our market? Sorry to say but I feel this is a heavily biased post to the H logo.

In all fairness i agree Honda makes great engines and transmissions, but that's it! the chassis is nothing but mediocre and build very average. Now they have woken up and worked on some much needed safety equipment (that many of the competitors had for a while) and slightly better finished interiors.

At the end of the day it is an city sedan originally created for poor markets like south east asia and India (i ain't proud of this). To me real sedans are actually D segment and we have been conned again and again by these manufacturers by providing.. rather creating these stupid "in between" segments.

The whole pricing system irrespective of brands is messed up by couple of lakhs and brands like Honda has been conning Indian public for over 2 decades by pushing the notion of premium and we the public has been constantly falling for it. Just look at the price graphic (Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs)in the above post the great H is taking this to yet another level.

Unless people wake up and start questioning such pricing we are going to be constantly fooled by all these manufacturers including Honda!

Last edited by Jaggu : 15th February 2017 at 16:01.
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Old 15th February 2017, 16:07   #472
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
How is it a premium product? and how long has this same model existed in our market? Sorry to say but I feel this is a heavily biased post to the H logo.

At the end of the day it is an city sedan originally created for poor markets like south east asia and India (i ain't proud of this). To me real sedans are actually D segment and we have been conned again and again by these manufacturers by providing.. rather creating these stupid "in between" segments.

Unless people wake up and start questioning such pricing we are going to be constantly fooled by all these manufacturers including Honda!
Aren't all other sedans equally old? And what USP do they have to charge whatever price they are charging?
Volkswagen did bring Dual clutch GB but didn't get it right. Rather it caused them headache (and to customers). Honda atleast is trying to bring something new.

As for "real sedans", their pricing is also considerably more.

I remember Endevour few years back used to cost 13 lakhs something. Now it costs upwards of 35!

Times change and so do the pricing.

@avdhesh15
Pathetic is a really strong word. Car is neither unstable at high speeds neither do nuts and bolts fall off in the car. Atleast they have an ACE frame and 6 airbags.

Last edited by The Brutailer : 15th February 2017 at 16:18.
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Old 15th February 2017, 16:12   #473
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
Aren't all other sedans equally old? And what USP do they have to charge whatever price they are charging?
=======
Times change and so do the pricing.
Completely agree! but is it justified? and do we keep harping it is ok and support it? OR call a spade a spade? irrespective of brand! Atleast i have said it time and again across brands

Honestly a Honda City is not worth a penny more than 11-12 Lakhs on the road anywhere in India (accounting for the de-evaluation of our currency over the same period city has existed), for all the led and other show shaw add another lakh at the best. Rest is what is known in Hindi as "ULLU BANAVING" making a fool! Literally, figuratively and in economics!

Last edited by Jaggu : 15th February 2017 at 16:16.
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Old 15th February 2017, 16:15   #474
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
Haha seems like people want more features but they don't want the price to increase.

I have said this and will say it again. New City is a premium product and it demands a premium pricing.

Let's see the competition.
Ciaz : Basically a low powered City clone.
Verna : Poor dynamics.
Vento : Unreliable automatic gearbox and fuel injector issues. Very mediocre NA petrol engine. Turbocharged though good, makes considerably low power.
Skoda Rapid : Rebranded Vento. Again, very mediocre petrol engines. More than the car, the service attracts greater horror.
Sunny : Mediocre engines and all about backseat.
Compact "SUVs" : Not even comparable. Basically overgrown hatchbacks.
Duster : Too old in the tooth.

Honda on the other hand, offers Segment first features.
To Add, City: Unrefined and coarse diesel engine, medicore build, premium-ness only in pricing.

I mean, every car have its downsides, it all comes down to whether the pricing call for compromises on the downsides or not. A few electric gizmos here and there, a few chrome inserts and a new alloy design does not make a car premium. That way, we can very well buy an alto and spend 5 lakhs more for all bell & whistles like sunroof, alloys and what not - and bingo!

Last edited by Nav-i-gator : 15th February 2017 at 16:18.
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Old 15th February 2017, 16:29   #475
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
Let's see the competition.
I'm sorry, but if you're hell bent on putting other cars down for no reason, you'll see only negatives. So, yeah let's see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
Ciaz : Basically a low powered City clone
but one in which water does not leak like in an old STC bus and parts do not fall off like in a cheap Chinese toy

Quote:
Verna : Poor dynamics
but provides great quality inside out and provides a highly refined great performing CAR diesel engine. Not an engine with tractor like refinement and truck like revving capability.

Quote:
Vento : Unreliable automatic gearbox and fuel injector issues. Very mediocre NA petrol engine.
but with an engine that provides awesome performance and one that does not undergo hydrolocking after driving on a city road after rains. The automatic though unreliable does not give the feeling of riding a Rs.50000/- scooter

Quote:
Turbocharged though good, makes considerably low power.
which inspite of lower peak power performs as good in terms of outright performance and much better in terms of real world usage due to much higher power in lower RPMs. All these with much better quality inside out with better dynamics and great after market modification support

Quote:
Skoda Rapid : Rebranded Vento. Again, very mediocre petrol engines. More than the car, the service attracts greater horror.
but with same positive points as a Vento except TSI's advantages.

Quote:
Sunny : Mediocre engines and all about backseat.
and a diesel engine that is very reliable and much better overall than the hydrolocking tractor motor called i-DTEC

Quote:
Duster : Too old in the tooth.
but offers best in class ride quality and AWD as an option

Quote:
Honda on the other hand, offers Segment first features.
along with a lot of niggles and the worst quality seen in recent times on any mainstream car. Also, does not get best in class handling/ steering /petrol engine power (Linea), best in class build, fit and finish, best in class reliability (anymore) and service.

See, that was not difficult at all. Let's not go on a blind fanboy rampage please.

PS I don't own any of the cars mentioned here.

Last edited by theredliner : 15th February 2017 at 16:36.
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Old 15th February 2017, 16:35   #476
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

^ Okay. Maybe they all have one good feature but have multiple major problems to not just balance but to become a deal breaker.

City on the other hand is an all rounder. Gets the engine and gearbox and safety (fundamentals of a car) very right and is good enough in all other aspects.

Quote:
Let's not go on a blind fanboy rampage please.
Not a fanboy, neither going on a rampage. I own a City but I spent my hard earned money after researching well. Every car above has a deal breaker. Find the dealbreaker in the City.

And neither do parts fall off like a cheap chinese toy nor does the engine rev like a tractor. Please drive the cars above for considerable kms before making such baseless allegations.

And if you're comparing City to a Scooter then I'm honestly at loss of words. Honda city does not make 11 BHP that you'll feel like riding a scooter while driving it.

Last edited by The Brutailer : 15th February 2017 at 16:51. Reason: fixing quote
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Old 15th February 2017, 16:46   #477
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

This whole discussion, centered on pointing out the cons (or rather demonising) of all the cars in the segment, is futile. All cars have certain pros and cons. At the end of the day, some cars may have more cons than pros, while few others may have more pros than cons.

Ultimately, the buyer will decide what to buy. Based on the chart performances, Ciaz and City are the only cars that are even considered by most buyers. So, no point discussing the pros and cons of non-entities (as of now).

Even if Honda raises the price to ex showroom 15 lakhs, it will still sell more than a Verna or a Vento. Only Ciaz can challenge City as of now, and the next gen Verna poses a distant threat. But the next gen Vento, even if priced cheaper than the City, will not sell half as much as the Honda. Honda knows this and that is why they are arrogant. As long as the Indian customers buy the City in thousands, there is no stopping their arrogance.
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Old 15th February 2017, 16:53   #478
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
Let's see the competition.
Ciaz : Basically a low powered City clone.
Verna : Poor dynamics.
Vento : Unreliable automatic gearbox and fuel injector issues. Very mediocre NA petrol engine. Turbocharged though good, makes considerably low power.
Skoda Rapid : Rebranded Vento. Again, very mediocre petrol engines. More than the car, the service attracts greater horror.
Sunny : Mediocre engines and all about backseat.
Compact "SUVs" : Not even comparable. Basically overgrown hatchbacks.
Duster : Too old in the tooth.
No offense, but it's like the pot calling the kettle black.

The 4th gen Honda city has received quite a lot of flak for build quality, reliability, cost-cutting and noisy-diesel among others. The ASC visit every 6 months and snobby Honda dealership is nothing to write home about either.

IMO, Honda has a misplaced sense of self-righteousness and it shows in their pricing.

Well they've been facing flak across the globe now and; in their own interest; they should take corrective steps to stay relevant in the Indian market.

Note: For lesser money S-Cross/Ecosport are equally well-kitted, reliable, powerful and make a strong case for themselves.
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Old 15th February 2017, 16:56   #479
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
^ Okay. Maybe they all have one good feature but have multiple major problems to not just balance but to become a deal breaker.

City on the other hand is an all rounder. Gets the engine and gearbox and safety (fundamentals of a car) very right and is good enough in all other aspects.

Not a fanboy, neither going on a rampage. I own a City but I spent my hard earned money after researching well. Every car above has a deal breaker. Find the dealbreaker in the City.

And neither do parts fall off like a cheap chinese toy nor does the engine rev like a tractor. Please drive the cars above for considerable kms before making such baseless allegations.

And if you're comparing City to a Scooter then I'm honestly at loss of words. Honda city does not make 11 BHP that you'll feel like riding a scooter while driving it.
Brutailer, do you want to spent hard earned 15 lakhs + on a car and hear dashboard rattling sounds? And a ride quality which is not really comforting. There is no suspension changes in the new version. If you ask a well know Service or Sales Adviser from Honda whom you know well, they won't recommend to buy the new top version of the 2017 City nor to exchange with the current one.

I too own a VX CVT, lucky enough to hear the rattles only at 31,000 kms. Fixable issue but still an irritation when I think that I spent 12.6 lakhs. Not to mention the bad skinny Goodyear GT3 OE tyres which I replaced recently.

I honestly feel, the TBHP and other reviews needs to take the price points seriously (not for affordability but for the worth).

Last edited by adarsh76 : 15th February 2017 at 16:58.
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Old 15th February 2017, 17:04   #480
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by adarsh76 View Post
Brutailer, do you want to spent hard earned 15 lakhs + on a car and hear dashboard rattling sounds? And a ride quality which is not really comforting. There is no suspension changes in the new version. If you ask a well know Service or Sales Adviser from Honda whom you know well, they won't recommend to buy the new top version of the 2017 City nor to exchange with the current one.
Is there really another choice??

A family looking for a safe sedan with good back seat comfort and other conveniences has no other option as of now. No other car offers this kind of features with this kind of money.
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