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Old 16th February 2017, 20:14   #556
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
Can't agree with that. My City is more than 4 years old and drives like new, in fact, smoother than when new. Mine is a 3rd generation 2nd iteration ( end 2012) model. It has been driven through rough roads all these years. Hope the facelifted City regains its old glory in terms of customer satisfaction.

My city (s-mt) is 5+ years old, run 50k km and drives like a dream. It was bought at little more than 8 lakhs ON ROAD in 2011. This was few weeks before the facelift you own so heavy discounts; very suprising to see the base 2017 model start at 8.5 lakhs EX SHOWROOM and not even come with a driver armrest . 17 lakhs on road in some cities even for toppest of the top model in my opinion is not value for money at all, considering it is only a c2 segment car.

Personally, it is best petrol manual car I have driven. To be honest even the third gen is built quite light, the doors are light and the sound insulation is bad, engine and outside noise is heard easily. However unlike the fourth gen, there are no niggles or quality issues AT ALL.

Hopefully Honda ups their game with the 5th generation and maybe it'll be the replacement to my 2011 model.
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Old 16th February 2017, 21:09   #557
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

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Originally Posted by mxh View Post
1. Sounds like you got a faulty car OR have some suspension damage due to some previous escapade.
I don't own a City. I've done thousands of km on it across generations, thanks to rentals and friends.

A new City has nice suspension, tuned for comfort. Not very problematic until 80 kph on imperfect roads. But its suspension wears out quicker than most cars if it has been driven on imperfect roads. A problem common in Honda's from Brio to all way to Civic. And yes, I drive City's which have been abused in past. But point is still same, its suspension wears out faster than other cars. I suspect that the spring is fine. It is the damper which is to be blamed. Would be great to swap them with Bilstein or Koni Orange.

Quote:
I think I probably got a bad piece since I don't see many people complaining about the gearbox.
May be your gearbox is not problematic. City gearbox is not smooth if you are comparing with Maruti and Hyundai. It is noisy with big *clunk* *clunk* sound when you shift. I like it this way. Nice feedback for precise and quick shifts.
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Old 16th February 2017, 21:10   #558
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

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Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
Can't agree with that. My City is more than 4 years old and drives like new, in fact, smoother than when new. Mine is a 3rd generation 2nd iteration ( end 2012) model. It has been driven through rough roads all these years. Hope the facelifted City regains its old glory in terms of customer satisfaction.
That's great. Old City was damn good except in some areas like Low Ground Clearance, lack of some features. But, it was not a volume model. Lack of Diesel Engine saw the sales go down when SX4 & Vento Diesel were launched. But now, every car has Diesel & Petrol Engine Options. But, now it's down to which department does a car score the most. I can narrate the same story of my dad's Brio.

His Brio is 4 year old (Turns 4 years Tomorrow). It has clocked a shade under 19k. It has been driven on all kinds of roads. Apart from the Average Ride Quality which Brio is known for, it has been a True Honda. It doesn't rattle a thing, no matter what surface you are driving on. Yes the doors are light, but they don't flex & the dimples haven't appeared till date. That for me is the build quality.

Remember, it was the 1st Volume car for Honda. But even then, this was well built compared to rivals if not as much as Other expensive siblings.

If you consider Driving Experience alone, it's as good as new & like other original Honda's. What's more, the robust mechanicals and basic electronics have helped immensely. My dad had said long time back (Sometime in 2001) that a car with electronics is less reliable then one without it no matter how much simple the electronics might be. His words hold true even today.

The Brio has basic features and nothing extra apart from essentials. This was exactly what old Honda's had. That changed when New 2014 City was launched, primarily because of the success of Verna due to long equipment list. Before Fluidic Verna was launched, each & every car in that segment were minimal equipped.

Here are a few examples.

The Vento didn't have Steering Mounted Controls earlier. SX4 didn't have Power Foldable Mirrors, Rapid didn't have Turn Indicators on ORVMs, the City (3rd Gen) didn't have Climate Control or a CD player. So, at that time, all these products were selling based on thier mechanical strengths. And not the hyped gadgetry things.

When, Honda became a mainstream brand. They had to do lots of things which they hadn't done before. The problem & bashing you see now is because of that factor & change. Now, Honda have realized that & they are going back to where they were. It might reduce the volumes but they are trying to get back the status they once had.

Let's wait & watch the proceedings then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayjaycleoful View Post

My city (s-mt) is 5+ years old, run 50k km and drives like a dream. It was bought at little more than 8 lakhs ON ROAD in 2011. This was few weeks before the facelift you own so heavy discounts; very suprising to see the base 2017 model start at 8.5 lakhs EX SHOWROOM and not even come with a driver armrest . 17 lakhs on road in some cities even for toppest of the top model in my opinion is not value for money at all, considering it is only a c2 segment car.

Personally, it is best petrol manual car I have driven. To be honest even the third gen is built quite light, the doors are light and the sound insulation is bad, engine and outside noise is heard easily. However unlike the fourth gen, there are no niggles or quality issues AT ALL.

Hopefully Honda ups their game with the 5th generation and maybe it'll be the replacement to my 2011 model.
Cars have become expensive over the period of time, there is no 2nd thought about that. In 2010, City was available under 10 lakhs, but even that it was percieved as expensive. Now after 7 years, that hasn't changed despite the car being more feature rich, choice of Diesel Engine, transmission upgrade(CVT), more space, better looks etc. So, whom should we blame? Honda or ourselves ?

The Baleno Sedan was available for around 6.5 lakhs in 2005/06, now the hatch itself is more than that. The Mercedes E Class which once costing 35-40 lakhs is now over 65 lakhs. I am not taking about yet to be launched 2017 E Class LWB. So, along with changing times, Honda have made the 1st move in this Segment.

In coming months, we are expecting Ciaz Facelift & New Verna. Next Year, there will be a New Vento & Rapid (Speculative). Once these City Rivals are launched at similar price as the just launched City Refresh, we may get the exact idea of where we & the segment is heading into.

Make no mistake, even if the Ciaz Facelift is priced cheaper then City, it is a definitive sign that Price alone is the factor for Ciaz Sales to be this good. If they see that Ciaz being a competitive product & aren't worried about sales drop, they may price it higher, just like what Honda have done now. So, This year's new launches will give us the verdict of the price fiasco that has been debated since City Price Announcement two days back.
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Old 16th February 2017, 21:36   #559
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Honda City is today priced as what Honda Civic used to be priced at. Such ambitious or i would say atrocious pricing.
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Old 16th February 2017, 22:14   #560
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highh5 View Post
Honda City is today priced as what Honda Civic used to be priced at. Such ambitious or i would say atrocious pricing.
Back in 2008 Civic used to cost Rs.13.5 to 15 Lacs Ex showroom and City used to cost around 7.5 to 9.5 lacs Ex showroom. If we consider average price of these 2008 cars in USD it comes around $34K for civic and $21k for city(Assuming 1$=40ruppes in 2008)

Today 1$ equals 67 rupees so civic and city should cost 22Lacs and 14 Lacs respectively.

So Car prices are still where they were ,it is our rupee which has atrociously fallen down
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Old 17th February 2017, 00:10   #561
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
Can't agree with that. My City is more than 4 years old and drives like new, in fact, smoother than when new. Mine is a 3rd generation 2nd iteration ( end 2012) model. It has been driven through rough roads all these years. Hope the facelifted City regains its old glory in terms of customer satisfaction.
That's exactly what I am trying to say. The third gen City was a class act. The Civic was a class act. The old Jazz was a class act.

The 4th gen City and everything that has followed is only a pale shadow in comparison.

Like I said, I have the old Jazz that is close to 100k km and I concur each and every word you are saying about your City. My car is also as good as new. My 2014 City though, sucks.
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Old 17th February 2017, 00:49   #562
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by pravint View Post
Back in 2008 Civic used to cost Rs.13.5 to 15 Lacs Ex showroom and City used to cost around 7.5 to 9.5 lacs Ex showroom. If we consider average price of these 2008 cars in USD it comes around $34K for civic and $21k for city(Assuming 1$=40ruppes in 2008)

Today 1$ equals 67 rupees so civic and city should cost 22Lacs and 14 Lacs respectively.

So Car prices are still where they were ,it is our rupee which has atrociously fallen down
Rupee depreciation isn't that much a factor.

The third gen City had a fair amount of content imported from Thailand. Now, they make everything here. Localization content is close to 100%. IIRC, they have even started exporting from India.

Keep aside those new LEDs and stuff. I am willing to bet that the BOM cost of the 4th gen City is much lower than that of the 3rd gen City, inflation adjusted.
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Old 17th February 2017, 02:10   #563
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
Rupee depreciation isn't that much a factor.

The third gen City had a fair amount of content imported from Thailand. Now, they make everything here. Localization content is close to 100%. IIRC, they have even started exporting from India.

Keep aside those new LEDs and stuff. I am willing to bet that the BOM cost of the 4th gen City is much lower than that of the 3rd gen City, inflation adjusted.
A Laura 1.8 TSI base variant was 12.4 lakh ex showroom in 2011. The cheapest Octavia 1.8 is now 19.3 lakh ex showroom. A Honda City Petrol base variant was 8.1 lakh in 2010 but it is only 8.5 lakhs now. So, all manufacturers are raising their prices, some more so than the others.

Also, manufacturing costs have risen quite a lot. Salaries have doubled in the last 10 years. I am sure majority of the salaried members of team-bhp are earning more than double of what they earned in 2007.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highh5 View Post
Honda City is today priced as what Honda Civic used to be priced at. Such ambitious or i would say atrocious pricing.
If Civic is in the market today, prices will be in the 20-25 lakh range and above. The cost of living in the past 10 years have increased dramatically. So no comparison to the prices of a car released in 2007.

But i agree that City ZX is damn expensive.

Last edited by deerhunter : 17th February 2017 at 02:29.
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Old 17th February 2017, 02:24   #564
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Motoroids have come out with their review of facelifted city. Link
Some highlights which I noticed:
  • All lights are LED in the topmost version.
  • The infotainment system runs on Android. Can apps be installed?
  • The alloy wheel design is ages ahead of last city.
  • The spare is an alloy.
  • Trunk lid gets a proper mask / cover.
Their Verdict
Quote:
Honda City has largely been the segment leader for some time now and we believe this new variant will help the Japanese car maker retain its leadership position. The car offers everything that one requires from a mid-segment sedan – comfort, luxury, features, decent performance and excellent ride quality. Honda’s reliability, low cost of maintenance and re-sale also act as big draws for new customers. On the downside, the City isn’t the most dynamically able machine in its segment. The car is also not very visually differentiated from the outgoing version. As a product, the City retains all its impeccable quality and adds some new ones. As things stand, the New 2017 City facelift continues to be one of the most sensible buys in its segment, and you simply cannot skip taking its test drive a miss if you are buying in the segment.
Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs-newhondacity2017review168.jpg

Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs-2017hondacityreview86.jpg

Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs-2017hondacityreview85.jpg

Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs-2017hondacityreview82.jpg

Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs-2017hondacityreview24.jpg

Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs-2017hondacityreview19.jpg

Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs-2017hondacityreview25.jpg

Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs-2017hondacityreview26.jpg

Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs-2017hondacityreview40.jpg

Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs-2017hondacityreview54.jpg

Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs-2017hondacityreview79.jpg

Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs-2017hondacityreview18.jpg
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Old 17th February 2017, 02:43   #565
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by deerhunter View Post
If Civic is in the market today, prices will be in the 20-25 lakh range and above. The living costs in the past 10 years have increased dramatically. So no comparison to the prices of a car released in 2007.

But i agree that City ZX is damn expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pravint View Post
Today 1$ equals 67 rupees so civic and city should cost 22Lacs and 14 Lacs respectively.So Car prices are still where they were ,it is our rupee which has atrociously fallen down
Well that is one way to look at things. But this way alto should have been hitting Wagon R stable and may be Wagon R hitting on to Swift since every car is coming up with added features, safety and emission norms getting into action. But that should not be the case, with every year technology is getting alot affordable. And now almost every car is around 95% or more localised contrary to the earlier days.
Compare city with the competitors
Ciaz Still most value for money(including the hybrid tech which is expensive though it is subsidized but not completely i guess), almost comparable on features and carry almost similar body shell.
Linea Take a leap inside and first thing you will feel that you are cocooned in a well built vehicle which is leagues ahead of those tin Can body shell. Consider Tjet motor, along with best driving dynamics and other gizmos on offer, still it's cheap.
Vento and Rapid brothers,Better build quality is in their veins coupled with some gem of an engine and transmission on offer along with at par features and still doesn't hit 16-17 lakh on road price.

Premiumness should be felt through the product itself rather than increasing the premium on the emi of the car which make you believe that you are driving a premium car.

They at least made the job easy for MS Ciaz and with their facelift due in March, i wonder if new city can fetch more nos for Honda.
If i have to shell that much money, will bought Chevy Cruze any day only if GM assures that they won't shut shop for the next five years atleast.
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Old 17th February 2017, 03:46   #566
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highh5 View Post
Well that is one way to look at things. But this way alto should have been hitting Wagon R stable and may be Wagon R hitting on to Swift since every car is coming up with added features, safety and emission norms getting into action. But that should not be the case, with every year technology is getting alot affordable. And now almost every car is around 95% or more localised contrary to the earlier days.
When the current gen Alto was released, the base variant was around 2.4 lakhs ex showroom, now it is more than 3.2 lakhs. A decade back, alto base variant was in the sub 2 lakh price range. So, price increase is done by all the manufacturers in all the segments.

Tech is becoming more and more affordable (atleast electronics and electricals), that is why we are seeing LED headlights, climate control etc in sub 10 lakh offerings. But that affordability is not applicable to age-old techs like engines, gear box etc, that is why car prices rising yeaar after year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highh5 View Post
Compare city with the competitors
Ciaz Still most value for money(including the hybrid tech which is expensive though it is subsidized but not completely i guess), almost comparable on features and carry almost similar body shell.
Ciaz is undoubtedly excellent VFM. If they release an updated version with more features (6 airbags, led headlamps etc), it will become an even bigger success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highh5 View Post
Linea Take a leap inside and first thing you will feel that you are cocooned in a well built vehicle which is leagues ahead of those tin Can body shell. Consider Tjet motor, along with best driving dynamics and other gizmos on offer, still it's cheap.
Linea was launched in 2007. Internationally, the Linea is not sold anymore, having stopped production in 2015. No one is going to buy such an outdated car, even if it offered everything, from a brand with not so good ASS. The 1.4 T-jet at sub 10 lakh ex-showroom is excellent VFM, but the car will not find any buyers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highh5 View Post
Vento and Rapid brothers,Better build quality is in their veins coupled with some gem of an engine and transmission on offer along with at par features and still doesn't hit 16-17 lakh on road price.
Even though they both are good to drive and score high on perceived quality, the reliability factor is a sword of damocles.

Vento top variant is the most overpriced sedan in the C2 segment. Top of the line Vento diesel DSG is priced at 14.4 lakh ex-showroom Chennai with OTR touching 17.2 lakhs. OTR Bangalore is almost 17.7 lakhs. Vento diesel DSG was only 11 lakhs ex showroom in 2015, and they have increased almost 3.5 lakhs in under 2 years for essentially the same car with not many added features. To top it all, it is an 8 year old car. 17.7 lakhs for an 8 year old C2 segment car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highh5 View Post
Premiumness should be felt through the product itself rather than increasing the premium on the emi of the car which make you believe that you are driving a premium car.

Last edited by deerhunter : 17th February 2017 at 04:14.
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Old 17th February 2017, 04:56   #567
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

^Read the current price of alto base variant as 2.6 lakhs. An increase of 20k since the launch.
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Old 17th February 2017, 05:03   #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PraNeel View Post
Motoroids have come out with their review of facelifted city. Link
Some highlights which I noticed:
  • The spare is an alloy.
  • Trunk lid gets a proper mask / cover.
Their Verdict

Attachment 1609248

]

The spare wheel being back to alloy is a good one, hoping to see other manufacturers follow the trend which was prevalent until a few years back.
The trunk lid cover being highlighted as a value add seems funny, as it should never have been eliminated in first place.
The moment I read the line "retains impeccable quality from previous version " in the summary / verdict, I didn't know if they were being sarcastic or if they really mean it. In case yes then possibly need to relook at "motoroids" definition of "quality".

Cheers,
Pradeep
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Old 17th February 2017, 11:49   #569
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
A new City has nice suspension, tuned for comfort. Not very problematic until 80 kph on imperfect roads. But its suspension wears out quicker than most cars if it has been driven on imperfect roads. A problem common in Honda's from Brio to all way to Civic. And yes, I drive City's which have been abused in past. But point is still same, its suspension wears out faster than other cars. I suspect that the spring is fine. It is the damper which is to be blamed. Would be great to swap them with Bilstein or Koni Orange.
I second it. I own a 2013 Brio and has run 63K in about 4 years. Runs as butter smooth as new today except that I almost got the entire suspension changed last week from Honda ASS. I ended up replacing both front shockers, shocker boots, shocker mounts, Jumping rod bush and both lower control arms. Loosen pockets by almost 11K
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Old 17th February 2017, 11:55   #570
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

I have a type 3 City, which is 6+ years old & has done ~80k, and while there are occasional rattles and the build quality is nothing to write home about, mechanically it feels just as good as when it was new and I've only ever had to visit the service centre for routine maintenance.

That said, when my brother was looking to buy a C2 segment sedan, I was the one who advised (more like forced, I guess ) to go with Vento TSI, because when you are spending upwards of 14L the perceived quality matters a lot and the City is nowhere close to the Germans in that regard. Hell, Verna feels better built than City. And I figured being in his late 20's he can put up with the headaches of owning a VW.

However, if you are looking for a decently built, reliable sedan with good residuals and not so expensive maintenance costs (I wouldn't call it cheap at all), I still feel City is a solid choice. If I were to put my money on it I'd go with Petrol VMT which at 9.99L ex-showroom is decent value too. Higher variants are not worth the price IMHO.
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