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Old 18th February 2017, 16:04   #601
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
More i see the new prices of variants across various car makes, the more i believe we as customers are royally taken for a ride! Honda city and 17 Lakhs?! For a cheap tin can why would anyone pay so much?

This trend is due to the customers, who blindly buy anything Japanese and don't voice real picture down the course of ownership.
This is where the real value of Team-BHP stands out from anything/anywhere else! The wealth of unbiased information shared here by the ever-improving official reviews and by the experts & owners are priceless guides in making a better decision while choosing a car even if the person is otherwise a novice in this area.

Hope the T-BHP movement will make more people prudent in spending their hard earned money while providing the right message for the car brands to treat customer as true patrons.

Blessed to be a member here.
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Old 18th February 2017, 17:31   #602
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Have we conveniently forgotten these 2 overpriced models which continue to consistently remain the best sellers in their respective segments?

Hyundai Creta

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Toyota Innova Crysta

Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs-innova.jpg

City has for long remained the best seller for Honda and with 2017 City they have increased the feature list a bit and priced it at a premium (VX and ZX variants). But to be fair to Honda, I think this premium is not as obnoxiously high as what Toyota is charging for Innova Crysta (This is my personal opinion and subjective)

Yet, there will be quite a few who will pay this premium as I believe that Honda City offers a lot more in terms of styling, comfort and brand image when compared with a Ciaz and Verna.

It is the king of this segment!

Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs-city.jpg
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Old 18th February 2017, 22:33   #603
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

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Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
Its competitors make very less power than City (Vento makes 105 bhp, Ciaz makes even lesser!)

So it's okay if they put a premium price because it actually deserves that price if you see the package as whole. Heck, which C segment sedan offers Sun-Roof? And full LED lamps? Soft touch dash?

Hence, if you see, it's still considerably cheaper than D segment while offering much more than the current crop of C segment cars. Thus the price.


And those cars like Eco Sport and Brezza are cheap because they are sub 4m. Hence the tax benefits. Which is why Ford can offer 6 airbags at that price.

I think we should end the pricing discussion and actually concentrate on the car. V and VX variant is VFM anyway. If you want more premiumness, ZX is the way to go.

Great way of putting it all down so correctly. I think all those who have issues/ grudges against the City should read 'Brutalier's' whole post patiently. And then do it once more. And then another time just to get the point(s) better.

I, for one, have had enough of the "tin can" word(s) already. I think it's a bit silly to use for the City especially if one is talking from a safety or overall quality perspective. People who think that the thickness of the sheet-metal used on the outer body of the car is what's going to protect them in an event of an accident or such event should get their facts straight and do a lot more learning on the subject. Just for the record, it's got nothing to do with safety. The only thing a thicker "tin-can" is going to get you is lower fuel efficiency, if that's what you like. It's an incorrect way to access a car in today's date. It's funny that people on Team-bhp are making such comments!

Agreed, thinner "tin" gives a sense of weaker build quality and the previous-gen City had it's share of build issues with even rattling which is unacceptable. That said, the "tin" of a car is certainly no way to access a car. It's like refusing to accept the value of an egg because its shell is so brittle that it breaks so easily. Kind of .

Lastly, everyone has a right to deem fit which "can" to put their money on, but please cut down on the abuse. No offense. I'm sure we Bhpian brethren are smarter than that
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Old 18th February 2017, 22:38   #604
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

You can add the "door thud" too which is used to evaluate the premiumness of the car. I never knew such a thing existed until I read it here
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Old 18th February 2017, 23:17   #605
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

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Originally Posted by pixantz View Post
Great way of putting it all down so correctly. I think all those who have issues/ grudges against the City should read 'Brutalier's' whole post patiently. And then do it once more. And then another time just to get the point(s) better.

I, for one, have had enough of the "tin can" word(s) already. I think it's a bit silly to use for the City especially if one is talking from a safety or overall quality perspective. People who think that the thickness of the sheet-metal used on the outer body of the car is what's going to protect them in an event of an accident or such event should get their facts straight and do a lot more learning on the subject. Just for the record, it's got nothing to do with safety. The only thing a thicker "tin-can" is going to get you is lower fuel efficiency, if that's what you like. It's an incorrect way to access a car in today's date. It's funny that people on Team-bhp are making such comments!

Agreed, thinner "tin" gives a sense of weaker build quality and the previous-gen City had it's share of build issues with even rattling which is unacceptable. That said, the "tin" of a car is certainly no way to access a car. It's like refusing to accept the value of an egg because its shell is so brittle that it breaks so easily. Kind of .

Lastly, everyone has a right to deem fit which "can" to put their money on, but please cut down on the abuse. No offense. I'm sure we Bhpian brethren are smarter than that
What's more perplexing is that most of the assumptions are from people who don't own a City or have had no considerable experiences with them.

Vento is a solid, great product offering cutting edge tech but that doesn't mean it's the best in the segment. There's a reason why it's near to the bottom in the sales chart month after month.

Somehow, City has got a reputation in this forum. Not good, considering lakhs of people go by the words of the posts in this forum.

How will a layman react when suddenly his gearbox fails while driving? How about Volkswagen updates Vento thoroughly instead of increasing the cost of the same old car? How about we mention that before defending Vento and coming down on City?

Not being a Honda fanboy. Maybe City is not the best in quality but it is reliable. And it is safe. And nobody has the right to degrade a product and decide what price Honda should price it's product. What right you do have is to boycott the product if you find it too expensive.

People on the forum are supposed to be neutral. And I'll admit I haven't been. But neither have all the detractors of City. Every post mentions how Vento is in a different class of it's own. But is it really?

Let's stop the discussion over old gen City and let's move on to the new update.

Hope to see many new ownership reviews soon. And also hope to see the Vento beat City fair and square. After all, who doesn't like competition?

Edit : Let me give my views on what I think the ZX variant is. I think ZX variant is basically for people who like to being chauffeured. Or who want an ease of driving. People who don't really care about performance that much. Hmm, ring some bells? Oh yes, the Toyota Corolla. Basically ZX is the real competitor to the overexpensive Corolla. The CVT. 6 airbags. Crazy amount of space. Seems VFM now doesn't it?

Also, the on road prices in Delhi is around 15 and 16 lakhs of iVtec and iDtec respectively. Which is not obnoxious. Maybe in Bangalore it will be more but let's wait for the GST bill to come in effect fully and whole India will have one price.

Last edited by The Brutailer : 18th February 2017 at 23:46. Reason: Typo
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Old 18th February 2017, 23:49   #606
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by pixantz View Post
I, for one, have had enough of the "tin can" word(s) already. I think it's a bit silly to use for the City especially if one is talking from a safety or overall quality perspective. People who think that the thickness of the sheet-metal used on the outer body of the car is what's going to protect them in an event of an accident or such event should get their facts straight and do a lot more learning on the subject. Just for the record, it's got nothing to do with safety. The only thing a thicker "tin-can" is going to get you is lower fuel efficiency
By "tin Can", what i believe people refer to is that body is susceptible to dents. Can easily get dents or paint chip offs in case of slightest of the impact.This will directly impacts owner in case of even small incidents your car will end up in a messed up condition and may end up in the service center for weeks. German or italian cars on the other hand are quite heavily built, and thus their body is abuse friendly.
By adding weight, you may not get few kmpl more but i guess strong build is also equally more important.
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Old 19th February 2017, 00:02   #607
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Highh5 View Post
By "tin Can", what i believe people refer to is that body is susceptible to dents. Can easily get dents or paint chip offs in case of slightest of the impact.

By adding weight, you may not get few kmpl more but i guess strong build is also equally more important.
People clearly said that Tin Can is not safe for passengers inside. But let's not get into that discussion now. And even a Vento gets dents. Every car in this world does.

And it's better to improve mileage by lowering the weight and strengthening the frame than tweaking the car's software to pollute the whole environment just for the sake of greater mileage. (Volkswagen Emissions Scandal)

Last edited by The Brutailer : 19th February 2017 at 00:08.
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Old 19th February 2017, 00:13   #608
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

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Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
What's more perplexing is that most of the assumptions are from people who don't own a City or have had no considerable experiences with them.
.....
I've owned and driven one since 7 years now. A Dzire rear ended my City once, and it was unbelievable the way the whole boot folded on impact. Thankfully zero dep insurance came to my rescue so at least didn't get hit financially. But for a car costing a million bucks, would have expected it to display some structural rigidity at least.

I'm not saying it's a bad car or the competition is any better. The ownership has been pretty fuss free, and the mileage from the Vtech is phenomenal for a car of this segment.

But no point side stepping the fact that it can be called a tin can by certain yardstick. Also the fact that it has less than impressive high speed manners for it's segment(and no, fatter tyres don't help much).

For those who know precisely what they are expecting from it though, the City is pretty much an unbeatable product.

Last edited by avisidhu : 19th February 2017 at 00:15.
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Old 19th February 2017, 00:31   #609
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

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Originally Posted by avisidhu View Post
I've owned and driven one since 7 years now. A Dzire rear ended my City once, and it was unbelievable the way the whole boot folded on impact. Thankfully zero dep insurance came to my rescue so at least didn't get hit financially. But for a car costing a million bucks, would have expected it to display some structural rigidity at least.
Well the impact kind of depends on the speed as well doesn't it? And the fact that only the boot got damaged and not the cabin of the vehicle is not bad.

Let's face it. City is basically made for developing countries. Vento is a Polo with boot. Again, for developing countries. You can't expect a Mercedes Benz/ Volvo build quality at 8-13 lakhs.

Least you can expect is to keep you safe even if the car gets totalled. City is pretty satisfactory in that sense. And so is Vento. But to expect any of these cars will have no damage whatsoever after being rear ended is little over the top.

Last edited by The Brutailer : 19th February 2017 at 00:51.
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Old 19th February 2017, 00:36   #610
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by avisidhu View Post
I've owned and driven one since 7 years now. A Dzire rear ended my City once, and it was unbelievable the way the whole boot folded on impact. Thankfully zero dep insurance came to my rescue so at least didn't get hit financially. But for a car costing a million bucks, would have expected it to display some structural rigidity at least.
A whiplash is what you get if there was no crumpling. The cars that crumples the least will transfer more energy into the cabin. Btw, at what speed did the dzire hit your car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by avisidhu View Post
But no point side stepping the fact that it can be called a tin can by certain yardstick. Also the fact that it has less than impressive high speed manners for it's segment(and no, fatter tyres don't help much).
Less than impressive highway manners for its segment? Really?

Lets see the cars in the segment that is on sale now - City, Ciaz, Vento, Rapid, Linea, Verna, Sunny, Scala, Manza(?).

Out of all this cars, Linea has no equals in the stability department. Vento and Rapid are slightly better, but only above legal speeds. Even at those speeds, they are not leagues ahead of the City. All the other cars do not perform as well compared to the City. So which segment are you talking about?

If you were talking about the low speed ride, i would have agreed, because City has probably the hardest low speed ride. But below par highway manners!!! No way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
City is basically made for developing countries. Vento is a Polo with boot. Again, for developing countries. You can't expect a Mercedes Benz/ Volvo build quality at 8-13 lakhs.
I dont completely agree with this. City is not meant for Europe or America, but it is marketed in many developed countries. Japanese manufacturers sell only the best products in their home market, and City is one such product.

Last edited by deerhunter : 19th February 2017 at 00:40.
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Old 19th February 2017, 00:51   #611
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
People clearly said that Tin Can is not safe for passengers inside. But let's not get into that discussion now. And even a Vento gets dents. Every car in this world does.

And it's better to improve mileage by lowering the weight and strengthening the frame than tweaking the car's software to pollute the whole environment just for the sake of greater mileage. (Volkswagen Emissions Scandal)
You are taking the whole thing away by quoting the emission scandal issue.
My point is i don't want to end up in garage for small nicks or hits which is the norm today. Swift and Dzire are a lot bashed for broken bumpers and deformed body as they can't withstand even the small hits.
Same is the case with City, Car costing this much amount and branding itself as a premium sedan should have atleast better build quality from its competitors(Ciaz) when they charge such premium amount.
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Old 19th February 2017, 02:06   #612
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

My dad bought Honda City SMT in 2008 Dec, the price then was 8.xx Lakhs ex showroom cochin, IIRC. I am actually surprised that that the latest entry variant is priced almost similar even after 8 years. Top variants are a different story, Ravenavi have explained that beautifully in the post quoted below.

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
On the other side of the coin, if the management at Honda Cars India thinks that they can pull off a "Creta" with the 2017 City's pricing, I think they are in for a very unpleasant surprise, once the initial brouhaha dies down.
It was during that time few of our cousins also replaced their cars. So we had a Verna 1.6 Crdi SX and Fiat Linea 1.3 Multijet coming in to our family circle. I had the opportunity to drive extensively in the three cars.

For sheer driving pleasure, I would take Linea any time of the day, hands down. It is in a different league. The steering is precise, well weighted and is a sheer delight to drive through the winding roads. City comes in second and Verna in third. The steering feels numb for these cars, especially the Verna, though the acceleration from 1.6 Crdi engine is addictive.

Build wise, I feel, I repeat, I feel Linea to be better of the three. City and Verna feels similar.

Space wise and seating comfort, it is City followed by Linea then Verna. We have many people in the family complaining that they feel sick while seated in the back seat of Verna.

Maintenance wise, it's like comparing apple vs oranges as one is petrol and other two are diesels. Yup, as you have guessed, the diesels have spend more for the maintenance. Linea got a new engine block @ 1.xx lakh kilometers because of poor maintenance from my aunt's side combined with irresponsible behaviour from the service guys where, they, instead of towing the vehicle, drove the ill stricken vehicle back to service center made her to under go a heart transplant.

City on the other hand had only visited once for a break down, well nearly a one. That was last month when the driver complained about lack of braking efficiency. But 5000 Km service interval is a major irritant to be honest. We followed it religiously till the warranty got over and after that we went every 7 to 8K Kms.

Service experience so far has been great for us. The staff there are courteous and will give 8/10. Btw, all these years we have been going to the official service center.

For Verna and Linea they moved to FNG after the warranty period got over. Linea's heart surgery was done at Fiat service center, btw.

Well, what is the point I am I trying to convey .

Okay, I will leave the readers to conclude what you want from my, hmm, anecdote.

Last edited by ecenandu : 19th February 2017 at 02:08.
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Old 19th February 2017, 03:13   #613
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The S MT and V grades look like the best options. SV seems pretty pointless to me. For about 45k less, you lose out on the nice touchscreen HU and better speakers, alloys and and a bunch of other niceties.

These 2 things alone are almost worth the price difference.

And also Honda, if you're listening. Thumbs up for the 6 airbags but It wouldn't kill you to offer 6 airbags as at least an option on other variants. It might actually save someone one day.
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Old 19th February 2017, 03:20   #614
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

On road price list for Bangalore.

Petrol Manual ranges from 10.68L for the S MT to 15.10L for the VX MT.
Petrol Automatic ranges from 14.81L for the V CVT to 17.41L for the ZX CVT.

Diesel Manual ranges from 13.94L for the SV MT to 17.52L for the ZX MT.

Note - Prices are inclusive of optional package, RSA, extended warranty and zero depreciation insurance.

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Old 19th February 2017, 07:41   #615
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Default Re: Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs

With respect to Bangalore pricing...
When I bought the City VX CVT last year [Feb 2017], I was thinking there was NO AT sedan in the price range of 16L - 20L.
The one option I got was the Verna AT for about 21+ Lakhs. There were some discounts on out going model if I am right. I didn't choose since I didn't see it worthy then.

I wished Altis be in this price range [south of 20L] for its AT, but it was then 22+ Lakhs, again not its worth. Now, this City, the same car with more features, have gone up to this pricing [17+ Lakhs] where Altis and Civic should ideally be in.

I now think, I should have gone for Jetta last year by extending my budget

Bottomline - not convinced.

Prem.
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