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Old 22nd January 2016, 16:53   #16
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Default re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

Good move M&M. Although R&D begun in 2014, timing to launch would be just perfect.

If they can squeeze 140 bhp out of 1.99 ltr engine which is same was what 2.2 gives, I am left imagining what other boundaries they could push with 2.2 engine! Should they choose to launch the XUV with two engine options like Endeavour, the new 2.2 engines will be tuned to produce more output for sure!
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Old 22nd January 2016, 16:57   #17
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Default re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

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Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat View Post
If only the crankshaft (and possibly the conrod) has been changed, then we shall expect the same price. The new crankshaft with reduced throw will have same crank pin, same journal and same cylinder pitch. Just reducing the crank throw will not help to reduce the cost. On the contrary, they will be producing more varieties of the parts, which shall slightly increase the cost.
Understood it somewhat . But if both the versions sell at the same price, we will definitely go with the bigger CC vehicle, at least most. Now they have a monopoly in the Delhi NCR market for a period of 2 months at least
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Old 22nd January 2016, 19:10   #18
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Default re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

Had Triumph been in this space, they would have responded in a day's time. All that would have been required of them is to reveal the actual figures :-)
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Old 22nd January 2016, 19:28   #19
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Default re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

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Originally Posted by Tushar View Post
140 horsepower in the XUV500.
Assuming its only the crankshaft and the linkages change and still manage to get to 140bhp with a ECU change perhaps, can the existing 2.2L have a healthy tune of 150+ bhp? Wishful thinking
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Old 22nd January 2016, 20:19   #20
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Default re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

This almost makes you wonder if M&M have a clairvoyant among their staff! One who can look into the future and draw conclusions about coming legislation which will have serious impact on the industry.

However one looks at it, the end result is there - Mahindra has reacted with stupefying speed. Even allowing that basic engine scantlings remain unchanged, the need for tooling up for re-boring and (since they claim that there is no change in engine output despite the minor downsizing) some degree of testing before launching the engine cannot be brushed aside. Reducing bore - however minor - while retaining output, assumes higher M.E.P. and corresponding increase in peak stress levels. Granted that the M-Hawk engine must certainly have good stress margins for further development - but customers are entitled to have doubts about the reliability niggles in what is effectively a new engine.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 20:35   #21
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Default re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

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Originally Posted by Amit_breakfree View Post
Kudos to Mahindra for pulling this off in such a short turn-around time. Most of the people who'll buy these cars in Delhi-NCR will not be bothered by the reduced performance as the cars will be running on the road for 90% of the life-time and will hardly see any off-roading action.

Also, this shows the poor and short-sighted planning by the government as a company found a loop-hole in the regulation in a matters of weeks and is eligible to sell their cars again.

This also brings out the question that why was this regulation bought into action in the first place? At the max, only the large SUV's by the German car-makers and other international brands will be affected which obviously don't form the crux or don't bring in large numbers. Hence, the government is back to square one.

A better approach to handle such a problem is to get all the stakeholders together, like the government, automobile companies, the regulatory bodies and the end consumers as well and then find a way out or a solution which will be acceptable to all.

So, in the end, Mahindra: 1 - 0: Delhi government.
Though I agree with your post overall - just a fact correction. There is no regulation - it was a ban by Supreme Court and not Delhi Government. I am sure when Government Agencies work on it, they will talk to all stakeholders and experts before making a regulation.

so you mean to say Mahindr: 1-0: Supreme Court - and now it doesn't look so good
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Old 22nd January 2016, 20:36   #22
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Default re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

That was really really quick from Mahindra. Competition would have just about started thinking of this and Mahindra already brought it to the market. Either they were kept well informed of the rule/restriction ahead of time or they have lightning fast reaction times. Whatever is true, I am sure Mahindra is here to stay and put up a fight. I am proud of them (Yeah, I am an Indian). They seem to be heading towards global success (a Hyundai of the future). Way to go.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 20:40   #23
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Default re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

While it is good to see Mahindra respond to market quickly, I sincerely hope they do fair bit of testing before pushing such engines in market. AFAIK, engine development/modifications take a long time to materialize.

I am sure they would do certain amount of testing but they shouldn't skip exhaustive road/stress test just based on conclusion from theoretical values.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 20:48   #24
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Default re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

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Originally Posted by kanwal View Post
Though I agree with your post overall - just a fact correction. There is no regulation - it was a ban by Supreme Court and not Delhi Government. I am sure when Government Agencies work on it, they will talk to all stakeholders and experts before making a regulation.

so you mean to say Mahindr: 1-0: Supreme Court - and now it doesn't look so good
Just hate to point out a fact, but if only Mahindra has 'reacted' so quickly and other car makers are still working out the modalities there is a possibility of Mahindra getting beforehand information from either the court or other interested parties.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 21:06   #25
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Default re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

As per this comment below from Pravin Shah in an article in Economic TImes, the development of this had begun in August 2014 itself.

Quote:
Pravin Shah, president and chief executive of Mahindra & Mahindra said the development of 1.99 litre had begun in August 2014 and "We do hope that the customer enjoys driving the new generation Scorpio and new Age XUV, which delivers the performance of 2.2 litre mHawk which is currently on offer," added Shah.
Based on this, does not looked like they started this whole activity after the ban was announced. Maybe they had some inside info that indicated potential issues with the large diesels ( Maybe the NGT ban recommendations some time back) and had started the ground work earlier

Source: ETAuto
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Old 22nd January 2016, 23:04   #26
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Default re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
As per this comment below from Pravin Shah in an article in Economic TImes, the development of this had begun in August 2014 itself. Based on this, does not looked like they started this whole activity after the ban was announced. Maybe they had some inside info that indicated potential issues with the large diesels ( Maybe the NGT ban recommendations some time back) and had started the ground work earlier
If that indeed is the case, and the engine really was tested and ready for a launch, why restrict it to Delhi only? I am sure a lot of folks in the rest of the country won't mind a detuned XUV/Scorpio if it means shelling out less money.

Even at the best of times, I would be very wary of putting my money on the initial lot of any product from M&M (though I am a mHawk Scorpio owner myself). If that product has been introduced as a response to legislation, then that wariness would definitely go up a couple of notches.

For those who are thinking of buying one, please wait and watch, allow the initial niggles to get sorted out and then only cut that cheque.

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 23rd January 2016, 08:58   #27
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Default re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

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Originally Posted by comfortablynumb View Post
If that indeed is the case, and the engine really was tested and ready for a launch, why restrict it to Delhi only? I am sure a lot of folks in the rest of the country won't mind a detuned XUV/Scorpio if it means shelling out less money.
Even at the best of times, I would be very wary of putting my money on the initial lot of any product from M&M (though I am a mHawk Scorpio owner myself). If that product has been introduced as a response to legislation, then that wariness would definitely go up a couple of notches.
For those who are thinking of buying one, please wait and watch, allow the initial niggles to get sorted out and then only cut that cheque.
Cheers,
Vikram
My sentiments exactly. It is not a de-tuned engine, as they themselves are suggesting that the output remains unchanged. Tho' I am a long-term supporter of M&M, I would be wary too. And wait a decent while (T-BHP feed back essential) before suggesting anyone to go for this new version of the M-Hawk.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 09:02   #28
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Default re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

Does the Torque figures remain the same too?
330nm for XUV and 280nm for Scorpio.

I think not if the stroke has been reduced.
Wonder why the Torque figures have not been mentioned as much as the power output since it's as important as power in a SUV.

Not sure if I missed it in the thread.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 09:27   #29
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Default re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

All automakers are now shifting into engine downsizing. The 2.2L has been their flagship for quite a while, but there were rumours that the output could be raised as close to 170-180hp. So in that case 1.99, shooting out 120-140hp isn't a big deal but I have my doubts on the same torque output though.

Fuel economy is also something to wonder, as all M&M vehicles are pretty heavy. If they manage better fuel economy, same output of torque and HP, they could keep this as the base model, and the 2.2L could be the step up engine and the international standard with higher output and torque.

Last edited by GTO : 23rd January 2016 at 10:20. Reason: Typos
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Old 23rd January 2016, 10:51   #30
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanwal View Post
Though I agree with your post overall - just a fact correction. There is no regulation - it was a ban by Supreme Court and not Delhi Government. I am sure when Government Agencies work on it, they will talk to all stakeholders and experts before making a regulation.

so you mean to say Mahindr: 1-0: Supreme Court - and now it doesn't look so good
Thanks for pointing out and it is my bad that I was not properly informed on the topic.

And yes, it doesn't look good. But I'll still maintain that even Supreme Court should sit down with all the stakeholders and then take a decision which is agreeable to all the parties otherwise companies will find more such loopholes and the problem will continue. Today it is Mahindra, tomorrow Tata can can launch Safari and other SUV's below 2000cc, and all the compact SUV's and crossovers are already under the limit so in the end the problem remains same.

Last edited by GTO : 25th January 2016 at 14:16. Reason: Typos
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