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Old 23rd May 2016, 09:41   #196
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Originally Posted by WorkingGuru View Post
Is the Hexa a 'worthy' competitor to Innova Crysta ?............................................under cut the Innova by ~20%, a car that's already overpriced by 30%.

If the production Hexa is going to be the same as shown in the Auto Expo, then Hexa will be a more compelling car than Crysta.

It will be a true crossover with 4x4 option unlike the MUV Crysta and if priced aggressively on launch, it will easily be the more value for money with potential to be a sales hit as well.

Also, the problem with Tata is their inconsistent after-sales service experience and not their cars.
Tata cars are as reliable as their competition. Tata has really improved the quality levels in their new cars in the last five years and seem to be improving their sales and service experience as well, compared to five years ago.

Hence I would not consider Tata as below par.

With the brilliant chassis of Aria reworked, quality interiors and having a proper 6-speed autobox, 4x4 as options among other features, the Hexa will arguably be THE BEST TATA CAR EVER and will be a fair and worthy competitor to the Crysta.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 09:43   #197
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Auto Expo 2016

Saw the video. Really surprised by the swiftness of the hexa.

It does appear dangerous driving in the video. But we are watching it in 2D. So really cannot comment on driving of this vehicle.

I have driven number of times on this road. Due to lot of two wheelers, overtaking from wrong side is very common.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 09:51   #198
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Originally Posted by m3_07 View Post
These are sweeping statements.
Not in the lone judgemental perspective. To simply make a prudent choice, from a long term perspective and a market consideration perspective.

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Can you quantify what makes to feel that the TATA products are unreliable. Do you own/ driven them???
So non-owners who've followed Tata products, or even often come across regular complaints on various automotive forums, have no right to opine?

To be honest, I've seen too much of this "Poor Tata, unfairly treated" theory that some seem to adopt. Tata has bungled up many people's ownership experience. Is it not unfair to discount the experience of those who've been cheated, just because they didn't choose to go through the legal route upto the highest court ?

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Hexa might not possibly clock the numbers that the Crysta does. This however does not make it less worthy.
Maybe not to you, but could to me.

Example. : A large amount of value of the Crysta is being seen in the form of it retaining resale value in the used market. A significant function of that is because of the number of units that such a car sold.

Quote:
Been driving a Safari for 8 years now, while waiting for the Hexa. Never once, have i found it unsafe & unworthy of the roads. There are numerous admissions from the owners to this, while compared to the fort & the pajero's of the world.
I'm not talking about road worthiness or outright driving performance. Atleast not yet.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 10:06   #199
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Auto Expo 2016

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Originally Posted by WorkingGuru View Post
Example. : A large amount of value of the Crysta is being seen in the form of it retaining resale value in the used market. A significant function of that is because of the number of units that such a car sold.
Resale value should be compared in percent terms not absolute value.

or example: Original price is 10 lakhs. resale value after 5 years is 6 lakhs. then resale value at the end of 5 years is 60%.

High initial cost and high resale is almost equal to low initial cost and low resale value

My cost price of Indica Vista is 5.6 lakhs

After 92k km and 6 years got 2.7. So my resale value is 48%, not that bad.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 10:22   #200
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Resale value should be compared in percent terms not absolute value....
So you're saying Innova does not hold resale value above industry average ?

Quote:
The cost price of Indica Vista is 5.6 lakhs
After 92k km and 6 years got 2.7. So my resale value is 48%, not that bad.
My Linea cost close to 9.2L seven years back (2009). After 75k kms, since the past 3 months, I have a total of 2 serious offers, both at <2 Lakh.

IIRC that time Innova sold for ~11. Ask As an Innova owner what is the resale value (and number of people ready to offer), of a 2009 Innova that's done ~80k kms.

Edit : My point being that Tata needs to be able to do that for the Hexa. Is it too much to ask good ownership experience, reliable service uniformly across the country and that the car should hold good resale value ?

Edit 2 : And if they cant consider resale value, then they aren't worthy to consider asking a price that's just 20%-25% short of Innova. I feel my opinion is considered & not exactly blind sweeping statements.

Last edited by Zappo : 23rd May 2016 at 13:33. Reason: Back to back posts merged
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Old 23rd May 2016, 11:07   #201
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Auto Expo 2016

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Originally Posted by WorkingGuru View Post
So you're saying Innova does not hold resale value above industry average ?
When and where in my post i have said Innova does not hold resale value?

What i said is, resale value should be stated as percent of acquisition cost, which more appropriate and real resale value.

Whats wrong in that?
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Old 23rd May 2016, 11:28   #202
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Auto Expo 2016

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When and where in my post i have said Innova does not hold resale value?...
I think I mistook the comment. Apologies for the same. I was felt I'm being bit rediculed coz a few more members were quoting my post with triple question marks.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 11:41   #203
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Auto Expo 2016

I feel Hexa being priced 20% less than an Innova Crysta variant to variant should be an ideal price to start with. Since it will come more generously equipped it cannot be expected to be priced much lower. Aria was launched with a dual mass flywheel which brought it ill repute, but the 2.2 engine in later cars started coming with a single mass flywheel has sold in sufficient numbers to stop doubting its reliability. Storme with the same engine has sold some 60000 units till now with no stories of engine/gearbox failures on them. An interesting fact is that TATA offers 4years/150,000 km warranty on the Storme and Aria but gives 3year/300,000km warranty in Xenon 2.2 with the same engine and gearbox! The Xenon 2.2 has been exported to countries like Australia, South Africa, Philippines and Turkey to name a few. For people who doubt about its reliability would Tata export a vehicle with an unreliable engine to countries where its just starting to establish itself?

One should not worry of Hexa being discontinued because its based on a five year old Aria design, because the hydroform chassis forms the base for the Storme, Aria and the upcoming Xenon with auto transmission to be launched later this year. So assuming Hexa doesn`t sell in thousands the commonality of parts with the automatic Xenon will ensure parts availability in future. Looking at the automatic Xenon showcased in the Bangkok auto show it was displayed with the same instrument cluster with color MID display and the gearbox engine combo as the HEXA. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...-xenonat03.jpg
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Tata Hexa @ Auto Expo 2016-screen-shot-20160523-10.43.13-am.png  

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Old 23rd May 2016, 12:37   #204
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Auto Expo 2016

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Originally Posted by WorkingGuru View Post


So non-owners who've followed Tata products, or even often come across regular complaints on various automotive forums, have no right to opine?
The beauty of this forum is that every one reserves a right to his opinion. This was primarily the reason to ask if "you have personally experienced" the product. It isn't right to dismiss a product by hearsay. The products being offered in the last few years are leagues apart from what it was in the past & is much better than the competetion. While the ASS is still an issue, I am sure that they will deal with this.

People get very critical of the fact that how can an Indian company measure up to the Toyota's of the world, though their products are much much underpowered for what they are billed. Have you seen the Crysta in flesh??? Personally, the design for me sucks & is no where close to Hexa. Again - to each his own.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 12:40   #205
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Auto Expo 2016

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
The test mule driver was driving at high speeds, YES. But normally test mule drivers don't drive their cars in such a manner unless they were instructed to do so. Considering that the test mule was carrying passengers, it's a given deduction that the driver was under orders.
I agree - let's not blame the driver squarely based on a video:
1. What's the bus doing in the extreme right lane? If he wasn't there probably the OP, Swift and Hexa would have gone from the right lane.
2. Swift didn't indicate that he was coming from extreme left to extreme right.
3. Bikes on the middle lane? I don't see helmets on the passengers (can't make out the bike drivers).
4. In the end, again there's a goods vehicle moving from right to middle lane. Probably was last moment due to which Hexa had to swerve?

Not that I am defending the driver, but more details are needed before concluding the driver's mistake.

On the car, the handling seems quite car-like and Tata might have a winner if they can undercut the Innova. Maruti is missing out on a massive segment here as well as Hyundai. They both will be late to the party (as in case of compact SUV).
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Old 23rd May 2016, 13:05   #206
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Auto Expo 2016

Lots of excitement for the Hexa, but the late release is resulting in my family running out of patience. I'm fighting a losing battle to stop them from getting the Crysta. We received word from a dealer that they're awaiting something called a road license. If it's obtained soon, they will launch in July otherwise it'll be postponed to September.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 13:08   #207
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... It isn't right to dismiss a product by hearsay...
I too have experienced T.A.S.S. up until they broke up with FIAT.

After so many years of hearing owners pour their heart out about the T.A.S.S. across various service centres as well as online forums, I would call it more than hearsay.

I admit, criticism is written a little more than praises and there must be many who enjoy a decent ownership. But there are too many criticisms WRT Tata Motors, and I believe they're mostly genuine. Many people don't go up to the highest legal authorities & settle with what they have and simply decide not to choose the brand again.

Quote:
While the ASS is still an issue, I am sure that they will deal with this.
Sir, we have to deal with those crooked tricking SA's & personnel at T.A.S.S., and their incompetence put together with their attitude had genuinely been harrowing.

Quote:
People get very critical of the fact that how can an Indian company measure up to the Toyota's of the world, though their products are much much underpowered for what they are billed. Have you seen the Crysta in flesh??? Personally, the design for me sucks & is no where close to Hexa. Again - to each his own.
Innova Crysta is NOT underpowered at all. The MT outputs 150bhp & about 15kmpl claimed mileage and AT outputs 170bhp & ~13kmph.

Yes, I've seen it in flesh on road & at the showroom. Looks are subjective, my friend liked the tail lights but not the front. I don't think that will matter alot 4-5years from now, after the looks eventually grow on the buyer.

As I said before, I'm discussing from a financially prudent, reliable product & peaceful ownership perspective.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 14:27   #208
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Auto Expo 2016

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Originally Posted by WorkingGuru View Post

Innova Crysta is NOT underpowered at all. The MT outputs 150bhp & about 15kmpl claimed mileage and AT outputs 170bhp & ~13kmph.

Yes, I've seen it in flesh on road & at the showroom. Looks are subjective, my friend liked the tail lights but not the front. I don't think that will matter alot 4-5years from now, after the looks eventually grow on the buyer.

As I said before, I'm discussing from a financially prudent, reliable product & peaceful ownership perspective.
You meant 13kmpl, I guess! Yes looks are subjective and ARIA was a Winner to me in that comparison with Innova. I am not a Toyota Fan Boy but you will still have to give it to them for the reliability that they deliver, Consistently!
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Old 23rd May 2016, 15:46   #209
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Auto Expo 2016

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... Since it will come more generously equipped it cannot be expected to be priced much lower. Aria was launched with a dual mass flywheel which brought it ill repute, but the 2.2 engine in later cars started coming with a single mass flywheel has sold in sufficient numbers to stop doubting its reliability. ...
Dual mass flywheel is better than single mass flywheel, Tata Motors failed to implement it properly & couldn't diagnose the issue, hence changed to single mass flywheel after numerous complaints of malfunction.

Single mass flywheel, apparently, much simpler to implement.

Thanks for the chart & insight. Even in Winger Doctor they're going to provide 3L km warranty. But that's against Force Tempo Traveller. Anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soumobakshi View Post
You meant 13kmpl, I guess! Yes looks are subjective and ARIA was a Winner to me in that comparison with Innova. I am not a Toyota Fan Boy but you will still have to give it to them for the reliability that they deliver, Consistently!
Yes, agree completely. And thats something I've been trying to say here to everyone, that Toyota is reliable, has good post sale experience & even a strong resale value.

They're claiming their 30%+ premium after proving themselves for over a decade. Whereas Tata did the opposite earlier, but has only now seem to have started to improve, after the market completely dumped them.

If I seem to come across as an incorrigible person, then I'll stop here. Because what for me? I've put up my opinion, if people feel it's OK & meaningful, fine, else I wish them all their luck.

Last edited by WorkingGuru : 23rd May 2016 at 16:14.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 16:51   #210
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Auto Expo 2016

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Originally Posted by WorkingGuru View Post
Yes, I've seen it in flesh on road & at the showroom. Looks are subjective, my friend liked the tail lights but not the front. I don't think that will matter alot 4-5years from now, after the looks eventually grow on the buyer.

As I said before, I'm discussing from a financially prudent, reliable product & peaceful ownership perspective.
You like the Crysta please buy it. Why spend time and energy on comparing with a product which has not yet been released? Let Hexa be released then one can compare. There is no use predicting the lower sales, bad service of Hexa compared with Toyota. Thanks.
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