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Old 10th March 2016, 20:49   #31
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Default Re: Automatics gaining market-share in big cities?

From my personal experience since I bought a used A-Star A/T for my wife around two years back, I can safely say one really doesn't need M/T if he/she knows how to extract the performance from A/T as well as AMT.

Even when I would upgrade from my T-Jet to any SUVish vehicle, I would look at the ATs first and if none meets my criteria, then only I would consider MT. Eg. 1.6 S-Cross.
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Old 10th March 2016, 21:08   #32
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Default Re: Automatics gaining market-share in big cities?

Along with trafffic, it is also growing prosperity in the country. Paying one lakh extra for convenience is now acceptable to more people. We can look at China as a good example since their progress has followed a similar course while tackling similar problems. Twenty years ago most cars there were manual and now most are automatics. India is about ten to fifteen years behind China in auto market and infrastructure and we will probably follow the same trend here.

Last edited by Lobogris : 10th March 2016 at 21:09.
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Old 10th March 2016, 22:09   #33
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Default Re: Automatics gaining market-share in big cities?

I really don't want to like AT but the DSG has changed my opinion as I grudgingly admit. ATs are not only efficient now as many have pointed out; dual clutch ATs are also plain faster than a manual. It is difficult to overlook both the efficiency and performance advantage of modern ATs, affordability gap is also being bridged steadily.

The enthusiast's option to vent out may be restricted to weekend machines specifically built for fun. Heck, even Porsche had to launch the 911R as the GT3 is apparently going AT as well
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Old 11th March 2016, 08:51   #34
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Default Re: Automatics gaining market-share in big cities?

In the entry level, there really are no petrol cars with the engines that you could enjoy with a manual. There is the TSI but no VW after the cheating debacle. Better alleviate the chore of driving these things with an AT. All the 1.2 L feel gutless. There is the City 1.5 and little else. Even this seems to top out at 4k rpm and makes only bleeting noises afterwards. A bit over rated IMO.

There are a few diesels with enough oomph to enjoy with a manual. But they lack the refinement and suffer from hard clutches. Don't get me started on turbo lag. I recently sold both my diesel cars and bought petrol AT cars. What prompted the move was the realization that we have been suckered into believing diesel is better than petrol in terms of emissions.
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Old 11th March 2016, 11:41   #35
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Default Re: Automatics gaining market-share in big cities?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samaspire View Post
ATs are the way forward. I predict that in 10 years, ATs will outsell MTs across India. And most of the new generation will probably never learn to drive a manual.
I disagree- that is too sweeping a statement. There is a huge market, not just limited to the enthusiasts here on TBHP () that loves manuals and are way too used to them to give up on them so easily. Think about it- the basic method of driving hasn't changed in over a century. And call me old-fashioned but though I am a huge automatic fan, I firmly believe that you can only truly learn how to drive in an MT.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Very true. I know several friends / family members who haven't returned to MTs after experiencing slush-boxes. Fact is, as you move up the automotive food chain, MTs are becoming scarce.
Completely agree with this assessment. My family's garage started off as 100% MT but this year the balance has shifted and it's 50:50. My next replacement will almost certainly make my personal garage 100%. This is largely by choice but also the lack of availability of MTs in higher segments.

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Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
Along with trafffic, it is also growing prosperity in the country. Paying one lakh extra for convenience is now acceptable to more people.
Don't forget the premiumness associated with an automatic. My Dad was thrilled beyond bits when I bought the Vento AT. He travelled abroad a lot in the 80s and used to complain about how cars in India lack two essential things that in his opinion made European cars perfect: power steering and automatic transmission. The former are virtually omnipresent now; got to wait and watch for the latter!
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Old 11th March 2016, 12:54   #36
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Default Re: Automatics gaining market-share in big cities?

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And call me old-fashioned but though I am a huge automatic fan, I firmly believe that you can only truly learn how to drive in an MT.
I agree. But I was lamenting that, that will be the case in future. Just look at the American market as an example - how many Americans can drive a stick shift?

Quote:
cars in India lack two essential things that in his opinion made European cars perfect: power steering and automatic transmission. The former are virtually omnipresent now; got to wait and watch for the latter!
The current prevalence of Power Steering as against 5 years ago, was what I had based my prediction of ATs on. I used to think PS was a luxury - now it is a necessity.

This is very good time for an enterprising BHPian to start manufacturing Automatic Transmissions. Every car manufacturer will want them soon.
_________________________________

Last edited by noopster : 11th March 2016 at 15:44. Reason: Let's not make this into a what car thread :)
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Old 11th March 2016, 15:06   #37
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Default Re: Automatics gaining market-share in big cities?

The AT vs MT debate was irrelevant for me in 2012 when I went ahead and bough a diesel MT, but that was also the time when I started my daily office run in Delhi, within a year I started hating myself for not getting an AT and have been constantly frustrated for the past 2-3 years.

It's the urban traffic that makes you realise how convenient an AT would be, after my week runs to and from the office I hardly want to get on the road on weekends . This has made me decide that I'll never buy a MT again, recently drove a Creta AT on a long trip to Rajasthan and boy what a joy it was getting through busy traffic in Jaipur and Udaipur, it was a rental car and since I've been back to my MT I've been constantly making my mind to go for a AT now.

Last edited by noopster : 11th March 2016 at 15:45. Reason: Quoted post has been edited
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Old 11th March 2016, 15:10   #38
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Default Re: Automatics gaining market-share in big cities?

The relatively higher number of Automatics on Carwale than what you see on the roads, could also mean Automatics are troublesome and people want to sell them off? !!
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Old 11th March 2016, 15:17   #39
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Default Re: Automatics gaining market-share in big cities?

Isn't it a touch ironic? The Western countries with their Autobahns and 12-lane Highways with 6 lane exits are actually ideal for MTs - you can really enjoy a proper drive there. Yet most people (at least in the US if not Europe) do not even know how to drive an MT. India with its horrible traffic is best suited to ATs and yet the % is minuscule.
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Old 11th March 2016, 17:05   #40
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Default Re: Automatics gaining market-share in big cities?

Casual walk around my community today gave the following results:

Cruze LTZ diesel AT
Santa Fe diesel AT
A3 TDI (diesel) DSG
Superb TSI (petrol) DSG
Yeti TDI (diesel) 4x4 DSG
Celerio (petrol) AMT
Audi A6 DSG (diesel)
Laura DSG (diesel)
City Auto (petrol)
Merc Mxx Auto (diesel)
Merc CDI Auto (diesel)
Rexton Auto (I think) (diesel)
Mini Clubman Auto (I think)

Skoda Rapid TDI MT (diesel)
Fluence MT (diesel)

Seems to me that the overwhelming choice for expensive owner-driven cars is diesel and automatic. Ignored the ubiquitous Innovas of course.

Last edited by itwasntme : 11th March 2016 at 17:07. Reason: Formatting
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Old 11th March 2016, 17:15   #41
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Default Re: Automatics gaining market-share in big cities?

Automatics, for sure a boon for city driving considering clutching, de-clutching in stop & go traffic. However, sometimes, I feel it's boring in moving traffic. The fun factor of engine revving, down-shifting to brake hard are a minus for me personally. It is also a presumption that people who go for Automatics (not the AMT version, but Torque Converters) are not generally worried about Fuel Economy. Whether that crowd grows exponentially, it's really a question mark only. In stop & go traffic, automatics will fare worse in Fuel Economy due to keeping the engine loaded and only brake pedal restricts it from moving.

Last edited by GTO : 12th March 2016 at 12:41. Reason: Typos
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Old 12th March 2016, 09:39   #42
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Default Re: Automatics gaining market-share in big cities?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
I disagree- that is too sweeping a statement. There is a huge market, not just limited to the enthusiasts here on TBHP () that loves manuals and are way too used to them to give up on them so easily. Think about it- the basic method of driving hasn't changed in over a century. And call me old-fashioned but though I am a huge automatic fan, I firmly believe that you can only truly learn how to drive in an MT.
Fully agree to this. Driving should be learned only on a stick shift, and first few years after one starts driving they should stick to manuals. An automatic is a convenience one should experience much later.
I still feel that a small automatic for the city, and a bigger manual for the highway will be a pleasure to drive, but until a few years ago only the opposite was available.

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Old 12th March 2016, 12:47   #43
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Originally Posted by GKMahajan View Post
Just on a side note: on the highway - if you are going to travel 1000 km, then there is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE between driving automatic and driving manual in top gear only!
No, no, no, no, no. Okay, seriously, NO .

I just returned from a run to Pune. Since the 530d is in for a service, I took the Sunny. Oh, the pleasure of:

- Screaming down an empty Lonavla ghat with a Manual . Engine braking, using the right gear for a corner, accelerating out of a curve - nothing comes close to that.

- Lining up the car behind a truck, downshifting & readying the car, sensing the right opportunity, redlining in the same gear and then, a perfectly timed & executed upshift.

ATs are better in a crowded city. MTs rule on the highway.

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Originally Posted by ram1980 View Post
+ 1 to that. The FE claimed by Jazz MT vs CVT is almost same. Same case with Baleno. In fact, for the new Amaze the CVT variant has better mileage numbers!
Don't blindly believe ARAI numbers. Because of the super-tall gearing, CVTs ace the ARAI. In the real world, a well-driven MT will kill the CVT in FE.

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Originally Posted by pamiboy View Post
To be honest, even paddle shifters are a waste of resources as you hardly ever use them (except to show off to friends/ family).
Few people use paddle shifters, but those who do (myself included) swear by them. I use the paddle shifters all the time for engine braking, bringing the car into the powerband before overtaking etc. It's become second nature to my driving style.
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Old 12th March 2016, 12:54   #44
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Default Re: Automatics gaining market-share in big cities?

After toying with a couple of (ab)used ATs for wife for doing school and grocery runs, I swear by them myself these days.

So much so that, but for the fear of loosing resale value, I converted my Manual Sail Uva Tdci to the city-clutch (auto clutch) system. It takes a few days of getting used to, but once you are in control of the system - its bye-bye clutch pedal+left leg work.

My next car surely will be a AT, I swear by their convenience.
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Old 12th March 2016, 14:48   #45
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Default Re: Automatics gaining market-share in big cities?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post

- Lining up the car behind a truck, downshifting & readying the car, sensing the right opportunity, redlining in the same gear and then, a perfectly timed & executed upshift.

ATs are better in a crowded city. MTs rule on the highway
Well said GTO. MT's rule the highway.

A high revving petrol mated to a slick shifting box with a hydraulic power steering is the best recipe for highways.

Last edited by petroguzzler : 12th March 2016 at 14:49.
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