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Old 11th March 2016, 09:55   #16
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Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

This is a great opportunity for Tata to position Aria as the new Innova for mass market. I dont think a 20lakh+ Innova has a big market.
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Old 11th March 2016, 10:15   #17
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Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
I hope this is true. Our market shouldn't be the dumping ground for old generation cars. Toyota has done it before, hope they have the same boldness even now.

Besides if only the Crysta is available, there will be enough space for a better spread of variants and better pricing. This will ensure the new generation gets to the numbers it deserves right from the start.
+1 to your comment.

Albeit the old Innova was yet going strong each day, at the same time it fell short of freshness. It has been close to 10 years since the Innova was first introduced to the Indian market and the perception of Toyota being associated with only old cars by now (as Etios and Fortuner are also quite old by now) cannot be ruled out. Besides the second generation Innova i.e., the AN140, replaces the first generation Innova i.e., AN40, globally and India is one of the markets where it makes an early entry.

The bold action by Toyota for withdrawing its key bread earner is not just commendable but also it shows the amount of confidence Toyota has on our market.

Last edited by King_pin09 : 11th March 2016 at 10:22.
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Old 11th March 2016, 10:28   #18
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I am reading history all over again. Reminds me of the time when Toyota stopped the Qualis and moved onto the Innova, and my Qualis, now in its 16th year, is still going strong !
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Old 11th March 2016, 10:50   #19
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Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

I think Toyota may position new Crysta marginally above current innova price range for the base model and substantial increase in higher variants. So they still can cater both Taxi and personal car users demands.

Otherwise it is a death of INNOVA brand in India.
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Old 11th March 2016, 12:15   #20
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Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

Some seem to be very optimistic that Crysta will replace Innova Just like the latter did for Qualis. Even I hope let that be the case for the sake of fairly tale of Innova. But I would not want to believe it will happen just because it happened 10-12 years before. While Toyota was extremely bold - Borderline CRAZY about stopping Qualis which was phenomenally doing well, it was successful because of lots of reasons and not just because of being bold. They need to be sure they price it right -Pricing is a big factor especially if they are catering to yellow boards and putting a hole to the level of 6-8L extra might not be everyone's cup of tea. They are also aware that the kind of exposure a common man has got to different brands and vehicles is much more than how it was a decade ago. Surely Toyota management and marketing team would have done an in depth brain storming analysis of the Taxi market if they are going to pull out the current model out of market.

A look at Feb Sales will give an indication about the competitors in MUV segment- Tavera, Go+ ,Mobilio, Xylo ,Ertiga, Evalia, Lodgy, Sumo and Bolero.
Ertiga and Bolero, Go+ is not a direct competitor with respect to yellow boards. Mobilio is not competitor at all to any vehicle . So the Direct competitors are Tavera, Xylo,Lodgy and Sumo. The combined sales of these four - 2489 is just half of what Innova moved out (4945). Even if we consider the alleged stock clearance by Toyota, it's cleary ahead of the pack by some distance. Please remember all these cars are much cheaper than Innova.

Among these the only vehicle which stands to benefit from Innova pricing seems to Lodgy which has been priced very well to cater to yellow board market and also that it is a new model compare to the decade old others. The visibility seems to be increasing every month and acceptance level also seems to be on the rise.But I would be very surprised to see a huge shift for taxi market to Lodgy given the production constraints they have to put a vehicle on Road. Indeed exciting times ahead!!

PS: Now that MSIL has breached the 10L territory of confidence with some success, maybe it's time the most trustworthy brand come up with a car in this segment.
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Old 11th March 2016, 12:23   #21
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Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

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Originally Posted by timuseravan View Post
Surprising move. I don't see taxi market buying 20lakh cars. Which car will be the new Innova for the taxi market?
If the pricing rumors turn out to be true, taxi operators will be pretty reluctant to go in for the Crysta. I mean, why'd they want to spend ~25 lakhs to ferry office goers day in and day out. They wouldn't need all the bells and whistles to go Point A - Point B.

So, a more relevant question would be: which car would be Toyota's next Innova?

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How is Toyota going to cope with the Delhi diesel ban as their Diesel engine is over 2000cc?
This Delhi ban has really messed up quite a lot of equations, hasn't it!
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Old 11th March 2016, 13:28   #22
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Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

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I personally wouldn't mind replacing my Fortuner with a top end petrol automatic Innova as they Innova has always offered better comfort level than the fortuner.
This is an interesting thought. Most people would want to go in for a Fortuner v/s an Innova. But for the high $ that the Fortuner commands, many settle for an Innova. Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "better comfort" offered by an Innova? Wouldn't it be a tough choice to trade in a butch looking / great road presence Fortuner for an Innova?

The petrol Innova is a good thought, but petrol engine gives much lesser FE compared to a diesel counterpart. Plus a bigger petrol engine of the Innova will reduce the FE further. In a cost conscious market like India, large petrols' will be hard to sell. This was probably one of the reasons Toyota discontinued Innova petrol option earlier.

Worldwide (US, Dubai, Singapore, Thailand etc.) if we compare, Toyota has always catered to local taxi markets. In fact in the US, in addition to taxis' even for car rentals, there are many choices from Toyota (Rav 4, Camry, Corolla etc.). With this clear 'commercial centric' strategy, I feel, the Crystas' lower end variants will be price friendlier to the huge taxi segments. The top Innova Crysta variants is where Toyota will reap profits from private buyers.
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Old 11th March 2016, 14:16   #23
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Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

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Originally Posted by geotracks View Post
Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "better comfort" offered by an Innova? Wouldn't it be a tough choice to trade in a butch looking / great road presence Fortuner for an Innova?

The petrol Innova is a good thought, but petrol engine gives much lesser FE compared to a diesel counterpart. Plus a bigger petrol engine of the Innova will reduce the FE further. In a cost conscious market like India, large petrols' will be hard to sell. This was probably one of the reasons Toyota discontinued Innova petrol option earlier.
Every Fortuner owner will admit to that the ride quality of an Innova is better, less bumpier and more planted. If anyone begs to differ, they are lying.
There are several conversations on Tbhp too where several Fortuner owners like me agree that the Innova makes more practical sense. The butch looks is the prime reason most of us bought the Fortuner. Baring the guys that go off roading. My use is on road and hence I find no additional value of the 4x4 and higher ground clearance. Hence, I rather trade all those capabilities for better ride comfort and captain seats in the middle row!

On the aspect of the petrol engine giving lesser FE, it is true but with turbocharged petrols in the market today the difference between the FE is reducing. I do not mind living with lower FE and getting a more refined and less noisier cabin.

Let's hope Toyota is listening!
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Old 11th March 2016, 14:41   #24
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Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

The news of Innova's production being stopped seems to be largely true. Somebody has rightly mentioned that Innova had been the cash cow for Toyota in Indian markets. Innova is seen in Tier I, II, III, IV, V and VI locations across the length and breadth of the country. It has been a blockbuster ride for them.
They have suddenly stopped the succesfull Qualis replaced with Innova and there was no looking back. Considering the number of yellow plate Innovas, I think the new Innova has to be priced aggressively with onboard safety features. Crysta looks promising, albeit the pricey tag of Rs 20 L plus will be a put off for many mass buyers.
Hope Innova is brought back with fine changes with impetus on safety aspect.
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Old 11th March 2016, 14:45   #25
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Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
At 27 lacs OTR, it is dangerously close to Audi Q3 and Ford endeavor, which supposedly is more VFM, ignoring Toyota's reliability.
What so VFM about a Q3. Remove the superficial badge prestige and the fancy tablet on the dashboard.So much money for a small vehicle which cannot be relied on after five years. In many ways the true worth of a vehicle is the resale value. Look at the depreciation of an Innova and a q3.

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Every Fortuner owner will admit to that the ride quality of an Innova is better, less bumpier and more planted. If anyone begs to differ, they are lying.
Completely agreed. Fortuner is better on the outside. Innvoa is better inside where you are likely to be. The middle row captain seats of an innova are far more comfortable than the ordinary bench in the Fortuner.
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Old 11th March 2016, 15:25   #26
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Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

Given that the current Innova has already been retailing at a 'reliability' premium compared to what was on offer, a new Innova at a substantially higher pricing would be a hard-sell, IMHO.
Maybe Toyota is just trying to 'discover' the price by sending out these feelers of outrageous prices.
When Qualis was discontinued in favor of Innova, the reliability difference between Toyota and competition was much more stark. I believe the difference is no longer as significant, so the market has changed and history may not be repeatable.

Toyota moves very slow in bringing new products to India, so I don't think there is any product planned in the next few years to fill the vacuum that the Innova would leave if the new generation is indeed moved into a higher segment.
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Old 11th March 2016, 16:28   #27
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Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

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Originally Posted by diyguy View Post
I am reading history all over again. Reminds me of the time when Toyota stopped the Qualis and moved onto the Innova, and my Qualis, now in its 16th year, is still going strong !
Slightly OT,how many kilometers has it clocked?

If they price the new Innova above 20 lakhs, we have to look for other options. I thought they will have a premium of 2 to 2.5 lakhs over the current version.
Lets see.
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Old 11th March 2016, 17:17   #28
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Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

I second the opinions shared above stating that Innova is more comfortable than Fortuner. However, when it comes to driving Fortuner is better due to the larger engine. I have a Qualis (6L+ kms), Innova (1L+ kms) and have recently sold my Fortuner 4x4 MT (83K+ kms) and I feel that they are masters in their respective genres. Out here in Marathwada (Central Maharashtra) we are infra-structurally challenged. Out here, Qualis rules. If sources (read Autocar) are to be believed, expect a 20% premium on the existing Innova lineup. Even still, 27L OTR for 2.8 AT Crysta feels overkill to me.
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Old 11th March 2016, 17:47   #29
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Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahil View Post
How is Toyota going to cope with the Delhi diesel ban as their Diesel engine is over 2000cc? I hope they have a good petrol option this time around. The previous Innova had a petrol option too but it never sold. I personally wouldn't mind replacing my Fortuner with a top end petrol automatic Innova as they Innova has always offered better comfort level than the fortuner.
Toyota should capitalise on the DC Innova market by launching a limited edition version which is insanely loaded. Similar to Mercedes launch edition strategy to get the brand positioning more upmarket.
It will be great to have an Automatic Petrol Innova.

I had the 2.0V Innova which was purchased in 2005. I had it for 3 years and was very happy with the vehicle. The engine was quite refined, only that the vehicle shook violently when starting the car. In the city it gave about 8 kmpl, but on the highway I got 13 - 15 kmpl depending on my driving.
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Old 11th March 2016, 20:22   #30
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Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

Regarding the comparison to the situation where Qualis production was stopped when Toyota launched the Innova, a factor to keep in mind is that the Innova was a vastly improved product than the Qualis. I have my doubts if the Crysta qualifies as a vastly improved product than the current Innova. It is rather an incremental improvement; a substantial one but now where near the leap from Qualis to Innova. Hence I reckon that Toyota may suffer in volumes if there is a big leap in price. In fact the steadily declining sales of the Innova over the last year is testimony for the fact that it was becoming less and less VFM with the price increases in recent years.
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