Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th March 2016, 21:57   #31
BHPian
 
diyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 254
Thanked: 112 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecenandu View Post
Slightly OT,how many kilometers has it clocked?
Sadly only 1.35L kms. Have sat in taxis that have done like 4L Kms and they did not feel lacking in power. We just did a Kerala temple trip to Sabarimala in the 4L km Qualis taxi and we were 10 of us including the driver and not a single instance did it struggle...
diyguy is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2016, 09:25   #32
BHPian
 
vishal9999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Pune
Posts: 47
Thanked: 45 Times
Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

Great time to buy Innova now, since if Crysta is launched at such a high price, then a used innova would certainly command a premium in the used car market. So even if you resell after using for 2 -3 years, resale would be intact.

Last edited by GTO : 12th March 2016 at 13:31. Reason: Language
vishal9999 is offline   Reply With Quote Received Infraction
Old 12th March 2016, 13:39   #33
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,722
Thanked: 89,020 Times
Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

Toyota India is nothing without the Innova and this is a very risky move. I feel, just like the Dzire Tour + new Dzire, the two Innova generations could have happily co-existed in India. The old Innova could be sold only in the poverty-spec variant to the taxi market, while the new Innova could serve the personal segment (and even cabbies with big pockets).

However, Toyota globally frowns upon selling two versions of the same car as it's against their ethos. Even if Toyota India wanted to, it would perhaps not get clearance from Japan.

Because the old Innova is discontinued, I'm convinced that the Crysta will have only a reasonable price premium over the outgoing Innova. Anything extra-ordinary will be a suicide mission for Toyota.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latheesh View Post
I think Toyota may position new Crysta marginally above current innova price range for the base model and substantial increase in higher variants.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang_shelby View Post
Then Qualis was discontinued in favor of Innova, the reliability difference between Toyota and competition was much more stark. I believe the difference is no longer as significant
Very true.

But the cab market basically follows customer demand. It's become standard practice for any tourist to ask for an Innova only. That's why cars like the Evalia, Lodgy etc. failed. No customer wanted to travel in them.
GTO is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2016, 14:02   #34
BHPian
 
car_crazy1400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: DL/UP16/PB10
Posts: 526
Thanked: 173 Times
Default

From what I remember from my interaction with Toyota personnel.

They said only the 2.8 auto would be priced over 20 lacs ex delhi.

Rest of the versions in all probability, would be priced lower.
car_crazy1400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2016, 14:03   #35
BHPian
 
Equus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 872
Thanked: 158 Times
Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

Innova as a brand is hugely popular and they want to ride on it. So they actually position the next gen (crysta) and position it over 20L. The Avanza would settle between the 10-16L band. Not a bad move at all, given the low-mid fleet operators can settle for Avanza while the private/high-end fleets take the Avanza!
Equus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2016, 15:04   #36
AWD
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Drivers seat
Posts: 804
Thanked: 218 Times
Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Toyota India is nothing without the Innova and this is a very risky move. I feel, just like the Dzire Tour + new Dzire, the two Innova generations could have happily co-existed in India. The old Innova could be sold only in the poverty-spec variant to the taxi market, while the new Innova could serve the personal segment.
Would Toyota like to be christened as a Taxi manufacturer ? Perhaps NO! As much good selling old Innova could do to Toyota in the short run, it could potentially dent the brand name & shake off its premium aspirations in the long run. In a way Toyota would also be safeguarding the present Innova customers who bought the vehicle for personal use from the dreaded taxi image/tag.

As an evolving Automobile market we must ask, push & appreciate car manufacturers to away with old, dated models & replace with newer ones. Advantages for the environment would be increased fuel efficiency, reduced emissions. While occupant safety addition/enhancement would be other advantages.

The Maruti example is a bad one as we would not like other manufacturers copy the bad practices. The company still sells the 800, Omni, Alto, etc, these are moving death traps on the road.
AWD is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2016, 15:44   #37
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Madras
Posts: 658
Thanked: 1,748 Times
Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Toyota India is nothing without the Innova and this is a very risky move.
Seriously!!! The market dynamics have changed. They halted Qualis and introduced the Innova eleven years ago when the MUV market was fresh, now I don't think is a good move though they would have done the feasibility study. Will this give open the window for duds like Enjoy, Lodgy and Xylo, though not an equal replcement for Innova but still these become a better prospect on price front. Will have to wait and see

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
The Maruti example is a bad one as we would not like other manufacturers copy the bad practices. The company still sells the 800, Omni, Alto, etc, these are moving death traps on the road.
Oh come on AWD, the example explains how clever MSIL was in launching 2 variants of the same model, differentiating for the private and commercial segment. MSIL sells about 3k units of tour - Adds to the bottomline without much investment.

moving death traps - well thats a fancy statement

Omni: can you name a replacement for this with the cargo hauling capacity and practicality that it has in that price range? You might argue it doesn't have crumple zone but remember the driver is the biggest safety feature of a vehicle. How safe are 2 wheelers and auto rickshaws? For the record the Omni sells 6K units on an average, why would Maruti stop selling?

Alto: what other option do you suggest for consumers with 3 lac budget? They shouldn't travel by car is it? Moreover the car has become safer than the previous iterations

BTW MSIL had pulled the plug on 800 back in 2014

Last edited by Karthik Chandra : 12th March 2016 at 15:50.
Karthik Chandra is online now   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2016, 15:44   #38
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nasik / Mumbai
Posts: 427
Thanked: 591 Times
Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

The bigger reason why I feel old Innova is being discontinued is because they will make crash tests mandatory from next year. The results of such a crash test is not something Toyota would want us to know.

This could also lead to many more high profile discontinuations like Bolero, Old Safari, Omni, Spark etc.
antz.bin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2016, 20:12   #39
BHPian
 
mroptimist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Perinthalmanna
Posts: 303
Thanked: 360 Times
Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

I was quietly following this thread and itching to contribute as soon as I get to know something which would have contributed to the thread.

Now I have the confirmation from my source that indeed Innova production has been stopped and an official send off given at the factory floor.

Here are the pictures to substantiate.

All along in various threads I stuck my neck out and said that first gen Innova won't sell along side the new one and I have been vindicated.

Regards.

Sorry for low resolution pics.

Name:  1.jpg
Views: 2191
Size:  47.1 KB

Name:  2.jpg
Views: 2161
Size:  51.2 KB

Name:  3.jpg
Views: 2171
Size:  50.0 KB

Last edited by GTO : 14th March 2016 at 10:43. Reason: Watermarking :)
mroptimist is offline   (47) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2016, 21:45   #40
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 453
Thanked: 192 Times
Default

Great move from Toyota (the father of perfection). Not many manufacturers have the guts to pull the plug off from their best selling model. Toyota has done it twice. When Qualis was discontinued, similar emotions flew. I'm sure that Toyota will do everything possible to replace the ageing innova with a much competent product. Soon, new innova will rule the roads.
Mr. MARUTI, are you listening? When will you discontinue Omni and replace with better competent product??

Last edited by harishpr : 12th March 2016 at 21:46.
harishpr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2016, 23:20   #41
AWD
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Drivers seat
Posts: 804
Thanked: 218 Times
Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karthik Chandra View Post
the example explains how clever MSIL was in launching 2 variants of the same model, differentiating for the private and commercial segment. MSIL sells about 3k units of tour. moving death traps - well thats a fancy statement
Omni: can you name a replacement for this with the cargo hauling capacity and practicality that it has in that price range? You might argue it doesn't have crumple zone but remember the driver is the biggest safety feature of a vehicle. For the record the Omni sells 6K units on an average, why would Maruti stop selling?
Alto: what other option do you suggest for consumers with 3 lac budget?
Now see Im speaking purely from a consumers perspective, I don't want to see old, gas guzzling, environment polluting, unsafe vehicles on the road. Whatever the companies strategies, I will always condemn the flogging of dead horses.

Ofcourse they are the un-safest cars ever. Check examples involved in crashes, you would know. Its been a decade or more since the Indian car buyer has moved on from the "because I drive nicely, I wouldn't bang or get banged"!

Just because there isn't an alternative to a vehicle doesn't translate into it being sold to ignorant consumers, it means that the manufacturer is exploiting the customers. Instead of providing them with modern, up to speed technology, the manufacturer is just trying to meet its own financial goals. Good from a manufacturers perspective, but not from a consumers/mine. Hope you get the drift, Im not concerned of a companies profits in lieu of cheap vehicles/models being pushed into the market.

Yes a midget manufacturer like Maruti will not stop selling an ok doing model, but that doesn't stop me from demanding it to be axed taking in view the emission & safety norms. Ofcourse stringent Govt. laws will get rid of it for sure.

Again the market has matured so much in the recent times that even a cheap car can meet the safety & emission norms. Nano is a prime example of such a car. Gone are the days when a typical sales person would tell you, "aur itne me kya milega"!! Consumers are demanding & slowly but gradually Govts. are backing them up with the right policies.

So Im not shedding any tears on Innovas departure, rather welcoming the new one with a bright smile!
AWD is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2016, 23:49   #42
BHPian
 
Equus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 872
Thanked: 158 Times
Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

Quote:
Originally Posted by harishpr View Post
Great move from Toyota (the father of perfection). Not many manufacturers have the guts to pull the plug off from their best selling model. Toyota has done it twice. When Qualis was discontinued, similar emotions flew. I'm sure that Toyota will do everything possible to replace the ageing innova with a much competent product. Soon, new innova will rule the roads.
Mr. MARUTI, are you listening? When will you discontinue Omni and replace with better competent product??
I am sure Mr Carlos Ghosn would like a bite of this pie, and will surprise us soon! Until then, saludos to Omni - it does it part perfectly. Not every car should be highway worthy, should it?
Equus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2016, 01:22   #43
BHPian
 
WorkingGuru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 198
Thanked: 237 Times
Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

Called Nandi Toyota today. Spoke with someone senior for 5 mins. Same stories.

From the conversation I think all the speculation about 20% premium pricing is just humbug. They seem to have some stock left which they want to dispose at thick profits.

My best guess is that Toyota is going to very slightly increase ex-showroom prices for the Crysta. The total OTR price rise including the additional 5% from the government may be around 10%. Hence the same gearbox.

Toyota definitely knows it's competition. There's anyway people choosing XUV, Xylo, Storme, Lodgy, Ertiga etc over Innova, and Toyota probably want to offer a much better product at very slightly higher price.

The new Crysta seems to be designed very well inside out. From the engine to mechanicals to gizmos to ergonomics to interior quality, based on video reviews, everything seems better.

Last edited by WorkingGuru : 13th March 2016 at 01:30.
WorkingGuru is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2016, 07:11   #44
BHPian
 
vinmechanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santa Clara,CA/ Aamchi Mumbai
Posts: 38
Thanked: 6 Times
Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

This is second time Toyota is taking their most popular vehicle out off the market. When Qualis was discontinued in 2004-05 (Just before Innova's launch) there was sudden increase in demand for it in used car market. I remember one of our transport provider bought couple of them at higher price than their book values. Innova's exit may lead to similar situation in used car market.

Tavera/Sumo Gold enjoyed Qualis non-existence for a while, even govt. agencies had to buy Tavera/Sumo just because Qualis proved it's utility in service.

Selling MPV with 20L + price tag, still sounds like an aggressive move, but IF succeed, this will create its own position in that segment which will have no/very less competition for long time.
vinmechanic is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2016, 09:11   #45
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 154
Thanked: 123 Times
Default re: 1st-gen Toyota Innova production comes to an end

Please compare the premium that Toyota charged over Qualis when they launched the Innova. It was not that much. I believe the same would apply here.

If they launch both the 2.4 and 2.8 versions and assuming automatic is offered in G & Q variants, it gives them 10 variants to play with. With a price differential of about 75k between variants, even with overlaps, I feel they get a wide ex-showroom band to play with pricing.

I think the focus is to target everything in the 15-25 ex showroom price bracket, while still preserving their taxi market as well.

I called up both Nandi and Ravindu. Both of them clearly said existing model is being discontinued but clearly said "No discounts". Does say a lot isn't it ?

How many other manufacturers can hope to sell their last lots of cars in the > 10L ex show room price range, that too a decade old model, without a single pie as discount. Oh man - If there's anything called brand value, this IS it.
chandras1 is online now   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1st Gen Honda City Owners - Problems Areas, Fuel Efficiency and more vishnuvijay Technical Stuff 1883 8th October 2017 18:18
1st Gen Estilo got JVC'd, Polk'd and JBL'b nomadabhi In-Car Entertainment 18 11th November 2011 00:39
DIY - Blue instrument cluster & parking lights for Scorpio (2003 model, 1st gen) badboyscad DIY - Do it yourself 55 22nd December 2008 08:55
Things I need to specifically look for in a 1st-gen Honda City Vtec Rice_tuner Sedans 8 16th June 2008 19:52


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 15:14.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks