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Old 17th March 2016, 00:51   #136
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD View Post
Yesterday's decision from the Honorable High Court is a victory of Justice and Fairness which a state is constitutionally bound to upheld.

It is a victory for the common man whose right to freedom of movement is guaranteed by the constitution.

It is a victory for everyone who believes in Drive Without Borders and above all,the utmost belief should be INDIA FIRST, INDIAN FIRST.
Hearty congratulations Waseem Sir. It takes different level of efforts and determination to challenge the system instead of just cribbing or complaining. Great job and hats off.

That said, i felt a bit disturbed seeing extreme reactions by the fellow members on this topic. I believe it is the hasty approach that was depicted by the state government whether by changing the time limit from one year to one month or resorting to rude or harsh measures to collect the tax, that has ignited such an uproar on the topic. Instead of condemning such a short sighted and not-so-civil approach of the government, we are resorting to questioning the authority of a state to levy tax and are further trying to justify our argument by highlighting the poor condition of roads.

It is the responsibility of a state government to provide basic infrastructure in that state and for discharging that responsibility it has been rightly given a right to collect tax from the motor vehicles plying in that state. Correct argument in this case would be to demand an annual tax instead of a compulsory life time tax so that an individual can decide what to pay based on his stay in the state. We cannot question how a state can tax a vehicle already registered in another state; it can very well do that if an individual is staying in such state for a specified period of time. Law also gives us an option to get refund from the originally registered state in case if we re-register our car in another state. If such refund is not being granted in practice, that needs to be questioned, not the authority of the second state to collect tax. With our present system of Union and State governments, it is practically not possible for the states to give up their right to tax motor vehicles plying in their states when they are responsible for the upkeep of infrastructure in the state. If a state like karnataka has been witnessing huge influx of residents into it from other states, it can very well choose to tax vehicles at higher rate because it is also subjected to heavy pressure on its social infrastructure, whose upkeep needs more money compared to the neighbouring states. If the government fails to provide such suitable infrastructure despite collecting higher taxes, that failure needs to be questioned, not the tax rates (as long as they don't violate reasonable standards).

Topics like these are increasingly getting sensitive these days with liberal doses of regionalism and patriotism put in that we loose sight of the root cause of problem and digress easily. Those videos posted few pages back showing the civilians stopping out of state vehicles to help RTO officials are nothing short of scary. I believe they must be doing it with a high feeling of nabbing down some kind of intruders into their state

PS: I am one of those many people who made this city my home because of my career, who daily crib and curse the condition of roads (or off-road tracks) that we have and who felt a pinch when i got to know that i had paid almost a lakh rupees in road tax, three years back
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Old 17th March 2016, 07:54   #137
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Dear Friends,

Please visit the RTO to get your cars/documents released.Do not forget to carry the copy of the Judgement this piece of Article as well.

Transport Commissioner Dr Ramegowda can be reached at +91 98451-99170.Please call him up from the RTO office if the RTO officials do not release your cars/documents.

We will file a contempt against the erring officials.

All the best.

Waseem......
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Old 17th March 2016, 08:08   #138
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

Owners of seized vehicles made to do the runaround
The ruling by the High Court terming the amendment to the Karnataka Motor Vehicles Taxation Act 2014 as unconstitutional might have brought smiles to the faces of citizens owning vehicles registered outside the State.

However, a week later, most are back to making endless trips to the RTO for release of their vehicles which were seized for plying in the State for more than 30 days without paying lifetime tax.

They are finding it impossible to get back their vehicles in spite of approaching the RTO with copies of the judgement. In most cases, they are being sent back with a vague reply stating that it would not be possible in the absence of internal communication from the Transport Department.

“My car was seized at Mehkri Circle on the day of the judgement around 10 a.m. Officials gave me a receipt stating that I had been driving the car without paying tax for more than 30 days. I have been living in Karnataka for less than six months. When I went to the RTO with the judgment copy the next day, I was asked to come back after one week. Today they sent me back saying that they are yet to receive instructions to release the vehicle,” says Sunil, who is from Kerala.

Across the city, RTO officials are refusing to acknowledge the HC order and instead are awaiting instructions from senior officials about the next course of action. “The receipt mentions clearly that my vehicle was seized for plying in the State for three months without payment of tax. It has been one month now and they have asked me to pay Rs. 2.54 lakh as tax to get my vehicle released,” says Shan Russel. He alleged that his vehicle was seized by the KR Puram RTO, but the people who stopped him were not wearing uniform.

Transport Commissioner Ramegowda said that instructions to release all eligible cars had been issued. “If anyone is facing a problem, I request them to call me. No one has done so till now. It would be contempt of court if these vehicles are not released as per the HC ruling,” he said.

The State government is yet to take a decision on appealing against the High Court decision. Nevertheless, the original petitioner in the case filed a caveat petition on Monday in the High Court.
Src:
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/...759.ece?w=city
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Old 17th March 2016, 08:42   #139
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by sasi@8689 View Post
It is the responsibility of a state government to provide basic infrastructure in that state and for discharging that responsibility it has been rightly given a right to collect tax from the motor vehicles plying in that state. Correct argument in this case would be to demand an annual tax instead of a compulsory life time tax so that an individual can decide what to pay based on his stay in the state. We cannot question how a state can tax a vehicle already registered in another state; it can very well do that if an individual is staying in such state for a specified period of time. Law also gives us an option to get refund from the originally registered state in case if we re-register our car in another state.
None of this is correct. All these arguments have been made, and have been struck down by various courts at various points in time. Presumably the judges who handed down those decisions knew their business.

1. Right to collect tax is subject to constitutional provisions and is not an absolute right that states (or the union) can wield arbitrarily.
2. There is no right to levy lifetime tax on a vehicle that has already paid such tax.
3. We definitely can question how a state (or the union) taxes anything; the court system is meant for purposes such as this.
4. Law does not give the option to get a refund; law does not even talk of refunds. Law seems to be clear (at least to the KA and AP/TS high courts) that levying tax a second time is not the right thing to do.

Last edited by noopster : 18th March 2016 at 08:03. Reason: Removing personal comments- please stay on-topic
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Old 17th March 2016, 08:54   #140
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

Related news:
Quote:
Massive decline in Transport dept's revenue collection this fiscal year

The Transport Department’s revenues have fallen far short of the target for the current fiscal.

The department’s revenue mobilisation is short by Rs 584 crore as of February-end though the registration of number of new vehicles has gone up.

The government had fixed a target of Rs 4,800 crore for the financial year 2015-16, but the department managed to collect only Rs 4,216 crore by the end of February.

With just two weeks left for the fiscal year to end, the department hopes to meet the target.

Transport Commissioner Ramegowda told Deccan Herald that the department would meet its target by March-end.

In 2014-15, the department surpassed the revenue target by an additional collection of Rs 140 crore against the target of Rs 4,350 crore.

This act of adding more revenue to the State’s exchequer has earned it appreciation from all quarters. The situation, however, is different this year, as the department is finding it difficult to reach its target.

Officials in the department have no clue why there is a deficit despite collecting lifetime tax from vehicles registered out of the State.

According to an official, around Rs 17 crore was collected from the out-of-the-State registered vehicles.

The statistics suggest that registration of new vehicles has increased this year compared with last year.

At the end of January, 12,32,556 new vehicles were registered, while it was 11,76,061 last year.

Though there is a steady increase in the registration of vehicles of all categories, the statics provided by the Transport Department show that there is a steep decline in the number of medium goods vehicles in the last three years.

With prices of all motor vehicles going up from April due to new taxes in the Union Budget, the department is confident of a rush in registration in the next two weeks.

An official in the department told Deccan Herald that registration of new vehicles was still on and they hoped to make up the difference by end of this month.

"We have no data about the revenue collection as it is yet to be collected from RTOs. Usually, enforcement will increase if there is a shortage,” he said.

Notwithstanding a dip in revenue this fiscal, the department has increased its target by Rs 5,040 for the year 2016-17.
Source

Last edited by paragsachania : 17th March 2016 at 08:59.
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Old 17th March 2016, 09:31   #141
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

Why are RTA's pressurised on Revenue targets ? So it looks like vehicle registrations have gone up but the revenue isn't. Whoever fixed the target had a number in mind (which is unachievable) and that's obviously pressurizing the officials to resort to whatever methods (like threatening etc.) to get more money.

17 crores (collected from non KA vehicles) out of 4350 crores collected is such a very small sum. And why such a ruckus in collecting this amount ? And also giving the wrong impressions that this 17 crore is the root cause of traffic problems, xenophobia and what not ? And any RTI on where exactly the 4350 crores were spent ?
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Old 17th March 2016, 09:43   #142
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
None of this is correct. All these arguments have been made, and have been struck down by various courts at various points in time. Presumably the judges who handed down those decisions knew their business.
Tomorrow if the government to meet targets as mentioned in other post above, adds a tax to common salt then these same folks will justify that too. If you want to eat salt "Go back to your roots". LOL!

17 crores against 4800 crores. That's .35% of the 'target'.

Does this state government and the citizens realize that the government is for the people and not for themselves. Why is the government acting like a business house with targets.

Why are the targets - lesser number of accidents, lesser number of load carrying violations, lesser number of permit misuse, no safety bars, lights. Hundreds of people die due to the RTO's total disdain towards this.

Why are the citizens not so vigilante then?

Mod Note: Post edited. Please don't make this thread political or an "us versus them" debate.

Last edited by noopster : 18th March 2016 at 08:09. Reason: Quoted post has been edited
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Old 17th March 2016, 09:53   #143
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunishsamuel View Post

17 crores (collected from non KA vehicles) out of 4350 crores collected is such a very small sum. And why such a ruckus in collecting this amount ?
I've always felt that the amount collected from the 1 month rule was peanuts compared to the overall collections from vehicle taxes. It appears that the state govt and CM was very poorly advised on the projections , followed which they changed the rule , but the real collections turned out to be far less. The proposal for taxing out of state vehicles first came in the budget speech of the CM - ie it was a purely revenue collection initiative.

There are better ways to raise revenues - several states for example increased taxes on petrol and diesel to make up for revenue shortfall - KA did not take this approach. Governments need to be smart enough to tap the right places for revenue collection, instead of resorting to measures that hardly make money but create a rift and large amounts of controversy.

EDIT - Waseem , are the refunds going to be made with interest ?

Last edited by sdp1975 : 17th March 2016 at 09:58.
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Old 17th March 2016, 12:19   #144
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

Folks like Waseem are exceptional and very very rare, it's next to impossible for many people to do what Waseem and few others have,

What You state is a sad truth of our public servants, We have elected them to do the job in the first place, and everybody realize what's happening,
Don't see a solution as far as people don't demand accountability from their elected reps - for that, people have to become accountable themselves first...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunishsamuel View Post
I'd say lawmakers are not sleeping, we are . I do not think we are even considered as a significant vote bank but as cash cows. No wonder we pay so many taxes. There is no rationalization. The life time road tax was just another e.g.
...
And thinking aloud, how many times did a law maker fight for our cause like Waseem did ? may be even close ?
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Old 17th March 2016, 13:32   #145
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

Sorry for joining late to the discussion
First of all Congrats all fellow motorist at KA (especially Bangalore) and THANK YOU WASEEM. Feels like you and who all involved just won a war for all fellow motorists

Now its going to be a never ending process getting the Tax paid or getting back the seized vehicles back. Who is going to take the responsibility for the harassment and mental torture these stupid officials/Goons injected to our hearts?. Lets all be together till all these gets over 100%. The money they have looted or collected illegally should be given back. I know its going to be next to impossible, but that is what we thought when we started war against this rule too. lets make it possible

OT:

I hope this verdict may be the start of many others to follow. Slowly Bangalore was becoming a place where living peacefully is getting impossible day by day . For eg :
1. Bad infrastructure
2.Terrible Roads (After protests there is slight improvement but all the improvements are done non scientifically and I think will only last till next rain)
3. High rent and non scientific advance (10x monthly Rent )
4. Terrible public transport (Ill maintained Volvos which will break down only in peak time traffic and that too 100% on middle of the road)
5. Non scientific Exhaust sound testing (my friend's bullet with factory fitted silencer was fined. they do check it at redline rpms and that too right at the road side where traffic is max)
6.Multiplexes charging 3-4x ticket price on weekends (an online petition in flying around in social media against that)

the list is endless.
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Old 17th March 2016, 13:36   #146
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

Dear Friends,

Please find below the link for the certified copy of the Judgement.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nonk...7426523423281/

The file is 16MB & hence sharing the link.

Mods:Please delete if this is against the rules of the forum.

Waseem.
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Old 17th March 2016, 15:06   #147
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

This thread is again taking the regular xenophobic route and diluting the efforts put in by a single person to let sense prevail.

The entire discussion is about the illegal 1-month rule that KA was imposing on the "outsiders", and how the Drive Without Borders movement was able to thrash it. No one is advocating evading tax or cheating the system. People who have cars have already paid tax in one state or the other. It's about making the system simpler so that people don't have to retort to malpractices but would be willing to walk up to an RTO office and pay nominal taxes for using roads in another state. A yearly tax system is the need of the hour considering our existing MVA rules are a century old.
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Old 17th March 2016, 15:42   #148
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

There is nothing xenophobic here and no amount of using this word repeatedly to silence the other side is going help. This is a matter of tax evasion nothing else. So if I pay profession tax, buy fuel, pay vat etc I don't need to pay road tax. Then I don't need to pay income tax as well. Road tax is for usage of road nothing else. if Govt is not maintaining the roads properly protest against that. I am from KL but as a owner of KA registered vehicle I don't have any issue in seeing a KL vehicle being penalized for running here with out paying the road tax.
The only fault I see with KA RTO is them not allowing vehicle owners for paying tax for the duration they anticipate to stay here or on a yearly basis.
People say it is not easy to get refunds. But how many of them have really tried to get it. From net I got this info. This guy got refund from the supposedly most corrupt RTO in india in one month. People just want to complain against one thing or another.
http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/110459...bangalore.html
Quote:
Got Road Tax refund from RTO Bangalore


I moved my card from Bangalore(KA51) to Ghaziabad and got the road tax refund. Here is the step by step process

1. Fille Form 28 ( Noc FORM) , 3 copies, attach all the photostat copies like car papers, insurance, pollution etc ans submit it in RTO.

2. They will immediately issues a form for police verification.( I got it within half and hour).
3. Go to Police Commisionor office and you find out the place where you have get the the clearance. Go after 11AM. They will verify and sign the form. I went around 10 AM but got it signed only around 12 PM.
4. Same Day I submitted it the form back to RTO and they asked me to come after 21 days. They will take your RC and issue a acknowledgement.
5. I went to RTO again after 21 days and got the NOC. ( two copies). make sure you get two copies.

6. Got my car registered in Ghaziabad after paying tax. ( Got it done thru some agent for RS 5000).
7. Send a written application to RTO Bangalore for road tax refund. Attach all the required necessary documents.
8. Follow up with them and got the cheque after a month.

Import tips:
Just apply for NOC only 20 days before you are planned to leave. Because in case you get the NOC early and get ur car reregistered after 15-20 days, they will apply some penalty. In my case

Applied for NOC : 28 Aug 2012
Got NOC: 21 Sep ( However date on NOC is 3 Sep)
Applied in Ghaziabad: 5 NOV

They took 8000 as penalty apart from road tax.

For My Ritz car which i purchased in 2011 and i got a refund of Rs 50000

Last edited by poloman : 17th March 2016 at 15:48.
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Old 17th March 2016, 16:02   #149
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
The only fault I see with KA RTO is them not allowing vehicle owners for paying tax for the duration they anticipate to stay here or on a yearly basis.
[/url]
That is the bone of contention.

Karnataka Govt expected a Non Karnataka Registered Vehicle owner to pay the entire Life Time Tax of 15 years in just 30 days.A simple dissection will say that one needed to pay 6 months of Tax for a day's stay, 12 months of tax for couple of days stay and so on and so forth.

I have tried my LEVEL best to convince the Govt to introduce yearly tax option.I met everyone right from the Transport Minister to the low rung staff incase you ask me if i have tried.

Waseem.
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Old 17th March 2016, 16:10   #150
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

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Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD View Post
That is the bone of contention.

Karnataka Govt expected a Non Karnataka Registered Vehicle owner to pay the entire Life Time Tax of 15 years in just 30 days.A simple dissection will say that one needed to pay 6 months of Tax for a day's stay, 12 months of tax for couple of days stay and so on and so forth.

I have tried my LEVEL best to convince the Govt to introduce yearly tax option.I met everyone right from the Transport Minister to the low rung staff incase you ask me if i have tried.

Waseem.
Waseem bhai, I am in no way questioning your motive. Your intentions are good. But if you look around the realities are totally different. Areas like Whitefield are flooded with cars from other states. It is of anyone's guess how many of them are genuinely here for less than 1 year and how many of them have paid their road tax. If you are making a move to another city one should plan in advance, it is not like one morning I will pack my bags and move to another city with my car. You can spent days searching for a job searching for a house, searching for a school for your kids, but can't spend few days with RTO in both states to sort things out. This hypocrisy is what is being questioned here.

Last edited by poloman : 17th March 2016 at 16:11.
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