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Old 18th March 2016, 17:32   #181
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

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Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
You pay income tax on what you earn. If you leave your job after let say 3 months, and not earning any income, how would you feel if you are still asked to pay 12 months worth of income tax?
This is an incorrect comparison. Can you buy a take away meal from McDonalds & go into the nearby Copper Chimney to eat it?
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Old 18th March 2016, 18:10   #182
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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None of this is correct. All these arguments have been made, and have been struck down by various courts at various points in time. Presumably the judges who handed down those decisions knew their business
What has been struck down by the Court is amendment of time limit from 12 months to 30 days whereas my comments were against other arguments like why cant there be one road tax for the country or how a state can tax when the roads are so poor etc.

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1. Right to collect tax is subject to constitutional provisions and is not an absolute right that states (or the union) can wield arbitrarily
Agreed fully; infact never meant the opposite in my post

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2. There is no right to levy lifetime tax on a vehicle that has already paid such tax
No basis for the above statement. Section 47 of Central act mandates re-registration of an out of state vehicle after a period of stay of 12 months and section 3 of the Karnataka state act links registration of a vehicle to payment of life time tax. This process of linking tax to registration, though briefly discussed in the order, has not been ruled by the Court. Infact in the ending paras, it has been held by the court that ........the payment of lifetime tax continues to be dependent on registration or re-registration as per sections 40 (registration of new vehicles) and 47 (re-registration) of the act......

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3. We definitely can question how a state (or the union) taxes anything; the court system is meant for purposes such as this.
Again agreed fully. Thats what waseem sir and others have done, so nobody can disagree

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4. Law does not give the option to get a refund; law does not even talk of refunds. Law seems to be clear (at least to the KA and AP/TS high courts) that levying tax a second time is not the right thing to do.
Totally incorrect. Please refer section 7(3) of the Karnataka State Act which provides for refund of proportionate amount
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Old 18th March 2016, 18:14   #183
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Hip Hip Hurray.....

This circular says that 30 day rule is GONE and vehicles/docs which were confiscated should be released.

I will post a translated and notarized copy of the same very soon.

Waseem
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Old 18th March 2016, 18:23   #184
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

Can someone knowledgeable about taxation and the MVA point to the part of Section 47 MVA that clarifies tax payment while moving states? As far as I could find online, it only mentions payment of necessary re-registration fees and fines for not applying within mandated timelines with relevant documents, says absolutely nothing about LTT. What am I missing?

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 18th March 2016 at 18:24.
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Old 18th March 2016, 18:25   #185
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

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Originally Posted by gsurya
Can you buy a take away meal from McDonalds & go into the nearby Copper Chimney to eat it?
If both joints belong to the same management (country in this context), should not be an issue.
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Old 18th March 2016, 18:30   #186
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

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Wait a minute, they are already doing that by illegally allowing houses to be build on lakes and the citizens not getting water. Get the drift?
You are right spitfire. KA government has announced today that people have to shell out toll on few state highways as Govt has availed a loan from World Bank and they need money to repay.

I always wondered where does tax money go? There are hell lot of IT companies in Bangalore, Highest road tax, lot of direct and indirect tax collected but we don't even have medium quality roads in and around Bangalore.

I know a lot is wasted in cheap rice, milk and other schemes where middlemen are benefited more than people who deserve.

I believe TS High Court stated that MV Act says Re-registration is required after 12 months of stay but its not written explicitly that you have to pay road tax again and agin in new state.

So more loopholes are being used to loot money.
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Old 18th March 2016, 18:34   #187
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

Waseem , thank you for standing up for those who were harassed by the RTO using a law that was illegal from day one. Don't waste your time with the trolls who can't comprehend the fact that laws can be unjust and illegal even if they are not affected by then.

People who are still batting for the RTO, stop trolling Waseem, he's explained the judgement and posted a copy here, the judge has also warned against vigilantism, even if you feel "those" people were asking for it.
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Old 18th March 2016, 19:15   #188
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

In previous years we have travelled a lot to Bangalore and beyond for work, but me and most other friends had stopped going to south Karnataka and beyond due to harrasment from this extortiotionist state government. Now with Waseem's excellent work we can start again. As a Maharashtra resident I do not see any of my friends and employees with non MH car's getting stopped without reason.
Neither has any current resident purchased a car from any other address. Many have come here with cars purchased at their previous residence, but a few years later their next car has had an local registration, many who later moved to other states took cars registered here with them.
Karnataka provided tax sops to IT industry to attract it, and then realised they were cash strapped and started looting the employees. For more on my views in this matter please read my replies no 50 and 61 in this thread.
The most that they not only can but should also do is to check registered addresses of low tax states (JH & PY) and confirm with the help of the local police there weather the adresses used for registration are fake.
Our other members who still consider that KA government was right in what it did are entitled to their own views, and I hope that when they themselves travel out of Bangalore, and see that others do not harras them they change their views.

Rahul

Last edited by Rahul Rao : 18th March 2016 at 19:27.
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Old 18th March 2016, 21:40   #189
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
Waseem , thank you for standing up for those who were harassed by the RTO using a law that was illegal from day one. Don't waste your time with the trolls who can't comprehend the fact that laws can be unjust and illegal even if they are not affected by then.

People who are still batting for the RTO, stop trolling Waseem, he's explained the judgement and posted a copy here, the judge has also warned against vigilantism, even if you feel "those" people were asking for it.
Actually same argument can be used for those batting against the RTO. Bottom line is under the existing law, they are within their rights to demand LTT from any vehicle they suspect is overstaying the 30-day grace period (now extended to 1 year). Think of it from the state's perspective: it's a lucrative revenue generating mechanism- every year thousands of people shift to Bangalore from other states and thanks to the nature of the industries that dominate the city, a significant number bring their cars along!

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Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
This is an incorrect comparison. Can you buy a take away meal from McDonalds & go into the nearby Copper Chimney to eat it?
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
If both joints belong to the same management (country in this context), should not be an issue.
Nope, not even close. I guess you're being facetious, though. Some of you here are talking about an idyllic world where you buy a car, pay for it once and never have to worry about it again. Vehicle registration is a state suject, though, and this problem will not go away unless something akin to Waseem's "Drive Without borders" dream fructifies.


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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Various posts
I feel your pain bro, but what you're wishing for ain't happening in a hurry. To be fair, even in the US you need to re-register a car locally if you plan to stay more than 3 months away from your home destination. The burden of LTT is what kills us here. Is it fair? Absolutely not. Is it legal? Hell, yes. That's how it is and we just have to roll with it!
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Old 18th March 2016, 21:51   #190
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
......Is it legal? Hell, yes. That's how it is and we just have to roll with it!
Thankfully, it doesn't stop there!

Is it legal just because someone (person or group) in a position of signing it into law did so? Yes, unfortunately.

But can it be upheld against the ultimate charter of citizens' rights, the Constitution? If the answer there is NO, there'll (hopefully) always be someone like Waseem to challenge them and get them overturned.

Rules are meant to be broken, and no, I don't mean breaking them the anarchist way. Rules are meant to be broken and amended to reflect the reality they govern, upto and including the over-arching Constitution itself. If every law ever made was set in stone never to be re-considered, we'd still be living in caves. Are we?

Evolution is the name of the game, so why should laws be exempt from the phenomenon?

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 18th March 2016 at 21:53.
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Old 18th March 2016, 22:53   #191
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

Dear Friends,

I managed to speak to the PA of Mr.Pon Radhakrishnan, who is the Minister of State for Road Transport & Highways on the shenanigans and Highhandedness of Karnataka RTO Officials.

The first thing he told me after i introduced myself was 'Congrats'.He said the news of victory has reached the corridors of power and the entire ministry is aware on the developments.I have sent him an email narrating our woes and he said that the Union Ministry will send a directive to the state government to honor the Judgement of the High Court.

I also spoke to Mr.Ramalingam Reddy,Transport Minister of Karnataka & appraised him on the ground reality.He said he will speak to the Transport Commissioner and will ensure that the vehicles/documents are released without any harassment.

Waseem Memon

Last edited by SILVERWOOD : 18th March 2016 at 22:57.
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Old 19th March 2016, 08:28   #192
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

Look what i chanced upon.

All India Federation of Motor Vehicle Department Technical Executive Officer's Association.

The Bylaws says ''The Federation also takes up issues relating the Amendment of Motor Vehicles Act and central motor vehicles rules. Wherever the amendments proposed are not in the interest of public or against public safety or defective and cannot be enforced''.

http://rtoaifmvd.com/

Waseem
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Last edited by SILVERWOOD : 19th March 2016 at 08:30.
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Old 19th March 2016, 09:00   #193
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

They say a picture can say a thousand words. This is the same government that passed the 30 day illegal rule.

Imagine what we are dealing with here.

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Old 19th March 2016, 09:03   #194
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Actually same argument can be used for those batting against the RTO. Bottom line is under the existing law, they are within their rights to demand LTT from any vehicle they suspect is overstaying the 30-day grace period (now extended to 1 year). Think of it from the state's perspective: it's a lucrative revenue generating mechanism- every year thousands of people shift to Bangalore from other states and thanks to the nature of the industries that dominate the city, a significant number bring their cars along!
Wrong on both counts. The existing law was illegal, the judgement has made that clear. I don't have to prove my innocence because some government functionary thinks that I broke the law, this applies even if I have been here for more than a month. The burden of proof should never be on the accused.

The people batting for the RTO are just gloating, how does it affect them if someone has a car with an out of state registration number? Other than jealousy there is no other explanation for their shilling. This is a classic "I'm not a racist, but...." argument.
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Old 19th March 2016, 09:05   #195
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
They say a picture can say a thousand words. This is the same government that passed the 30 day illegal rule.

Imagine what we are dealing with here.

Attachment 1487652
Though it has nothing to do with the topic, I can't agree with you more on this. I still remember a decade back power cuts were a rarity in Bangalore. Now every hour the power either trips for short periods or altogether black out for hours.
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