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Old 13th March 2016, 17:37   #61
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

@ anand_hc and others.
I am totally against using fake adresses, and tax evasion. But I do not believe it is wrong to pay the legally minimum possible tax.
As a Pune resident three of may cars are registered there. One my Innova was registered at my farm house to save 3% Octroi, but as soon as I sold the farm house I applied for and took a change of adress to my Pune address, even though i was planning to sell the car within a year.
As of now I travel all over Maharashtra and Goa, also visiting North karnataka, and parts of Gujarat and MP. Tomorrow if I purchase a house in Goa, I can very well register a fourth car there, but if a situation arises that I don not need it, and I lease it out to some one else, I am obliged to transfer the vehicle to some other address which is legally in my possession.

Rahul
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Old 13th March 2016, 17:51   #62
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

I am all for drive with out borders. But here the issue is how long you can stay with out registering an out of state car in Karnataka. A gentleman from Goa has reacted passionately few pages back with out giving a thought to why his own home state charge Rs250 as entry fees for every vehicle for reasons only known to them.
A period of 30 days for paying LTT will sound harsh but if you extent to 1 year, every one is gonna claim they have been in the city for less than a year. All they may need is a toll receipt from visiting another state which any way every one is going to undertake at least once in a year.
What we need rules for ease of refund from the parent state and option to pay taxes for short durations in the state where you are staying.

Last edited by poloman : 13th March 2016 at 17:57.
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Old 13th March 2016, 18:09   #63
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

A thousand offenders may go scot free, but an innocent man should not be persecuted.

The powers that be in their infinite wisdom have set laws to make the movement of people easy, not make it difficult.

Yes, there will always be people out to utilise the loophole, but the 30 day amendment looks like a chance to make hay while the sun shines. If the state governments wants to really be proactive, they need to set up a mechanism to enable easy and quick transfer of the road tax amount between states (And also a method to adjust the road tax already paid pro-rated as per the tax structure prevailing at the new state) or the setting up of a uniform road tax structure between all the states so that no one is tempted to pinch pennies.

Xenophobia is not the way to go!

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Old 13th March 2016, 18:13   #64
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
What we need rules for ease of refund from the parent state and option to pay taxes for short durations in the state where you are staying.
Agreed.

Asking people to pay amounts close to a lakh (for a premium hatch) after confiscating their vehicles is a totally different story. I'm glad the rule has been quashed.

That said, since the migrant population in Karnataka is a lot more, I would support if government makes yearly tax payment or something mandatory.

I'm a Keralite, having a TN registered car which I used there for 1.5 years and now in Karnataka for 2.5 (LTT paid). I don't frankly know where I'll be next year. If all these states start asking LTT- I'll be paying more than the car value in taxes soon.

Refund of LTT from home state doesn't seem a viable option because even after all the effort and time involved, I might just need to go back to TN or Kerala or anywhere else by the time the process is done, and start with legal hassles again.

But morally, I would be happier paying yearly tax as long as I'm here.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 13th March 2016 at 18:16.
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Old 13th March 2016, 18:51   #65
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

awesome job waseem sir and everyone else involved in this endeavour. thank you so much!
While this will benefit the people who are here on a genuine assignment to work in KA, I really do hope they bring uniform tax structure across india for motor vehicles or implement any other scheme like annual tax.

The number of people who are here for < 1 year on work is absolutely minuscule compared to the number of people who have settled down permanently in Bangalore but still use out of state registration cars. Take my own office for example, we have about 50 cars in the parking lot every day. Out of which about 20 are non-KA vehicles, and around 10 have been purchased in the last 1-2 years.. Considering the fact that the only office we have in India that does engineering has its HQ in Blore, the concept of anyone who has come here for less than a year is non-existent.
As long as there is this huge difference between taxes at different states, the majority of the people will continue to use out of state cars which is quite a huge loss to the state exchequer. I hope the govt does not come up with any other draconian laws as a knee jerk reaction to this verdict.
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Old 13th March 2016, 19:05   #66
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
But morally, I would be happier paying yearly tax as long as I'm here.
I had met the Transport Commissioner of Telengana and had suggested him the option of Yearly tax.I had given him the example of Kerala.

In less then 3 months, he sends a 5 member team to Kerala to study the model and proposes the same to the govt.It is a matter of time before the same is approved by the assembly.

I have met every one in Karnataka and have suggested yearly tax option.No one is keen to take this further.I will list down the people i have met to pursue the same.

1,Transport Minister
2,Chief Secretary
3,Additional Chief Secretary of Transport
4,Transport Commissioner
5, Joint Secretary

I have even met lower rung officers and have tried to explain the benefits, but in vain.

Waseem.
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Old 13th March 2016, 20:15   #67
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

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Originally Posted by anand_hc View Post
....What I don't understand is that how do you prevent folks using this to not pay taxes even though they are staying here?....
Probably some of you are not getting the point or are overlooking for your argument sake. If I stay in Karnataka for "n" number of years, I am willing to pay the tax for "n" years; NOT 15 years! Give that option to the migrant population and all of them will pay the taxes willingly. Fleecing the migrant population is what all of us condemning.

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Originally Posted by anand_hc View Post
....These same folks who scream at top of their lungs in SM that roads are bad in Bengaluru, city is not good, traffic sucks. All nonsense....
Have the roads been better since the migrant population has been exploited? When KA charges the HIGHEST road tax in the whole country, is it justified to have poor roads?

Or should I assume that the roads are good from the perspective of Karnataka natives?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
...I'm a Keralite, having a TN registered car which I used there for 1.5 years and now in Karnataka for 2.5 (LTT paid). I don't frankly know where I'll be next year. If all these states start asking LTT- I'll be paying more than the car value in taxes soon...
You sum it up so well. I am a Keralite and have been in four different states in the last 5 years or so; how many times should I pay the life time tax??

I agree that I have shifted jobs & have had financial gains, but should I pay more than what I am supposed to, just because I am one of those IT professionals?

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Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD View Post
I had met the Transport Commissioner of Telengana and had suggested him the option of Yearly tax.I had given him the example of Kerala.....
Sorry, this is not something I am aware of. Does Kerala have a provision of paying yearly tax? I kind of recollect that they also had changed the time to 30 days from one year, where the other state registered cars have to re-register / pay taxes. Or a provision between the states to adjust the road tax based on the location change of the vehicle (the owners can intimate the RTO when they came to a new state).

1. Am also keen to know whether the point of yearly tax proposal was brought to the court's notice?

2. Any news / direction on the refund of the taxes collected recently?

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 13th March 2016 at 20:20.
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Old 13th March 2016, 20:18   #68
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

A not so gentleman from KA, should know that the Indian from Goa has appealed legally to the then Chief Minister of Goa and present Defence Minister of India to abolish the entry fare in Goa.

Lets not even argue, that the entry fee is waved off for border towns of KA and that its not charged for 15 years. The comparison of Rs 250 t0 LTT for 15 years is taking common sense to a whole new level. But then...

Regionalism is not our forte. We come from a family of armed forces. Our Sammane is not our state but our country.

Passion comes from being true, not a leech of a state.

I have a house in Goa and a house in Karnataka. I legally can buy a car in Goa and drive it in Karnataka. So sorry you cannot digest that.

Welcome to the idea of a nation. No don't, its going to be difficult to comprehend.

Last edited by Spitfire : 13th March 2016 at 20:28.
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Old 13th March 2016, 20:31   #69
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We also need to keep in mind that the movement across states is of a vehicle that has ALREADY paid life time tax in the state of purchase. So, the tax in the new state should be the net of LTT of that state minus the LTT already paid. The state governments should take care of transferring the amounts from one state to other.
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Old 13th March 2016, 20:45   #70
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
A not so gentleman from KA, should know that the Indian from Goa has appealed legally to the then Chief Minister of Goa and present Defence Minister of India to abolish the entry fare in Goa.

Lets not even argue, that the entry fee is waved off for border towns of KA and that its not charged for 15 years. The comparison of Rs 250 t0 LTT for 15 years is taking common sense to a whole new level. But then...


I have a house in Goa and a house in Karnataka. I legally can buy a car in Goa and drive it in Karnataka. So sorry you cannot digest that.

Welcome to the idea of a nation. No don't, its going to be difficult to comprehend.
As a visitor to Goa I had to pay 250Rs for 3 days. If you compare this and LTT for !5 years you will realize there is no much difference. Do some maths and you will realize Govt can make much more money this way since every vehicle entering is charged.
No one is stopping you from driving in to Karnataka. Not even 250Rs entry tax. But if you are staying for extended period here, you need to pay the road tax in this state so long as this is a state subject.
I am not from KA. I have been staying here for 15 years. All my vehicles are either KA registered or LTT paid.In a city where every third car is from out of state some drastic steps will be warranted. Who are we trying to fool by trying to prove that vast majority of these people are here for less than year.
Proclaiming 'Indian' as a solution to all the complex issues we face is just running away from the real issue. Not interested to discuss any more on this topic.

Last edited by poloman : 13th March 2016 at 21:10.
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Old 13th March 2016, 21:06   #71
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

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Originally Posted by anand_hc View Post

What I don't understand is that how do you prevent folks using this to not pay taxes even though they are staying here?
15 year tax for a year or twos stay ? Really? Do you pay 1 years hotel bill in advance for a hotel you visit every week?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anand_hc View Post
These same folks who scream at top of their lungs in SM that roads are bad in Bengaluru, city is not good, traffic sucks. All nonsense.
I scream about that wherever in India I go, Bangalore does not get this special privilege of my screaming.

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If it was so bad, please return to your roots. If you are here to earn your living here, please one among us not be an outsider.
My roots are in India, are you a part of India ? Yes you are and hence my roots are in Karnataka too and so are they in Orrisa, and so are they in Nagaland and every state of this country.

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Folks talk as if Karnataka police are worst and police in UP, Bihar are saints.
So if police in UP and Bihar are worst, you are okay with KA police being put in the same kettle, but folks just because they might say MH, UP or Bihar police are saints, KA police cant be worst?

I am glad the thuggery has ended. Cheers to Waseem and everyone who made this happen. I want to label it as 'Empire Strikes Back' and what a KO it was for KA Mugs
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Old 13th March 2016, 21:17   #72
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
One day when the RTO thugs were stopping out of state cars near HSR layout. Common citizens, including folks in cabs and on bikes. They had nothing to do with the illegal activity by the RTO but were blocking the out-of-state vehicles and calling out to the RTO thugs to nab them.

Some sort of sadistic pleasure was being derived out of it. Very disgraceful. I am not surprised at the above statement.
Well, the citizens were helping the authorities in implementing the (a civil law) rule of the land at that time. Law was known, consequences were known to all. Can't term that as sadistic pleasure.
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Old 13th March 2016, 21:27   #73
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

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I have met every one in Karnataka and have suggested yearly tax option.
Congrats Waseem and best of luck for the future.

I think that the option of yearly tax is ideal for both car owner and the government. They can charge more per year and the buyer will have lesser one time expense. Isn't that how it works for taxis?

And if this is implemented across the country, then any outstation vehicle just has to pay tax in the visiting state.



It is very common to see PY registered high end cars in Karnataka, and there are conflicting arguments here regarding that issue. I think it is only fair that a vehicle should be registered in the state where it will be a majority of the time in a year.

When you come down to basics, isn't road tax charged for usage of the roads? So if you pay tax in one state and ply your vehicle in another, what are you paying the 2nd state for using its resources.
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Old 13th March 2016, 22:35   #74
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Default Re: Out-of-state cars can run on Karnataka roads for 1 year!

People have been talking a lot about paying your taxes and making the place great as if tax avoidance is something unheard of, next two weeks, half of those furious with outsiders now will be reducing their tax bills using various legal methods( net effect is lower taxes). The reason why people register cars outside is because they can, I can register a vehicle as long as I have someone to pick up the mail, basically you should have to pay the LTT only in the state where you have your permanent address. PY registration needn't be illegal, the place is part of India and low taxes there mean you can actually run a state without milking car buyers for "infrastructure" provided. You can't travel 50 km in any direction from Bangalore without toll, not to mention, the best roads are all GOI projects, the state government has control of Mysore Road, thats probably the worst bit of road you can travel in.

I hope we have a system where you could end up with a registration which doesn't give away any details about the owners whereabouts. It would be really useful when the nativists start complaining about historic wrongs and other such gibberish to occupy their time to engage in vandalism and violence , attacking people who are really not interested in their cause.


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Well, the citizens were helping the authorities in implementing the (a civil law) rule of the land at that time. Law was known, consequences were known to all. Can't term that as sadistic pleasure.
The law in question was illegal from day one and didn't have presidential assent it wasn't the law of the land because it violated the MV Act, among other things. The local low-lives were getting off on acting as vigilantes harassing perceived outsiders. Other than those who are wilfully blind, most people see this as nativist jingoism.
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Old 13th March 2016, 22:35   #75
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Reading some of the comments above by the "real, true citizens" of this "state". Its no wonder these are the same people who elected the leaders who brought in the illegal law.

This hate is deep in this society. We have a huge problem here. Bihar and UP are much better. The common citizen does not have so much hate for other fellow Indians.

Sad.

Just because of some random senseless comments you have delivered your verdict on "this society". This makes you no better than the people who have made those comments. You are following that up with more of such nonsense. Mods please take note of this.

What really saddens me is the fact that instead of commending the great work done by Silverwood and celebrating the end of RTO tyranny, we are back to petty regional bickering.
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