Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th March 2017, 15:13   #316
Senior - BHPian
 
libranof1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: All over!
Posts: 3,625
Thanked: 2,623 Times
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
Wow - its only in India probably that people consider weight reduction in a car to be a bad thing. So in your opinion Ambassdor is the safest car ?
The weight of the same car goes down by 120 kgs; what does that say?

I'll make an assumption here: you are part of the India that agrees that Maruti-Suzuki cars aren't the best built. Heck, the panels bend if you press them with your pinkie.

The weight reduction has come in through "super light weight body".

Are you still going to be comfortable knowing the new Swift is 120 kgs lighter?

Or to put it the way you did: it is only in India probably that people will be happy about a 5% improvement in FE

Last edited by libranof1987 : 8th March 2017 at 15:16.
libranof1987 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2017, 15:27   #317
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 247
Thanked: 526 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
The weight of the same car goes down by 120 kgs; what does that say?

I'll make an assumption here: you are part of the India that agrees that Maruti-Suzuki cars aren't the best built. Heck, the panels bend if you press them with your pinkie.

The weight reduction has come in through "super light weight body".

Are you still going to be comfortable knowing the new Swift is 120 kgs lighter?

Or to put it the way you did: it is only in India probably that people will be happy about a 5% improvement in FE
A substantial part of total weight of car comes from the "cage", not the panels. While the panels getting pressed with a finger is correct for MS cars, it does not necessarily make a car less safe than one with low structural integrity and body panels that do not budge.
Nav-i-gator is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2017, 15:29   #318
BHPian
 
ethanhunt123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 822
Thanked: 189 Times
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
The weight of the same car goes down by 120 kgs; what does that say?

I'll make an assumption here: you are part of the India that agrees that Maruti-Suzuki cars aren't the best built. Heck, the panels bend if you press them with your pinkie.

The weight reduction has come in through "super light weight body".

Are you still going to be comfortable knowing the new Swift is 120 kgs lighter?

Or to put it the way you did: it is only in India probably that people will be happy about a 5% improvement in FE
I suggest you read about new car launches globally over the past few years and see for yourself how many manufacturers talk about weight reduction/FE increase. You will get the answer you are looking for.
ethanhunt123 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2017, 15:30   #319
Senior - BHPian
 
libranof1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: All over!
Posts: 3,625
Thanked: 2,623 Times
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
A substantial part of total weight of car comes from the "cage", not the panels. While the panels getting pressed with a finger is correct for MS cars, it does not necessarily make a car less safe than one with low structural integrity and body panels that do not budge.
True. And the report points the difference to the light weight body, which I assume is the cage you are referring to?
libranof1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2017, 15:40   #320
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 247
Thanked: 526 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
True. And the report points the difference to the light weight body, which I assume is the cage you are referring to?
Maybe. I can't comment before any crash test is done. But just as a lightweight carbon fibre can be stronger than wrought iron, lighter structure can be sturdier than the heavier ones of old gen.

I would not be judgemental, rather would be optimistic.
Nav-i-gator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2017, 15:59   #321
BHPian
 
deerhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: PGT/PDY
Posts: 265
Thanked: 587 Times
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

You cannot compare two different generations and assume lower weight car is unsafe. Due to improvements in engineering, cars will always be lighter and stronger compared to previous generations.

Instead, compare the same generation car between different markets and that maybe a pointer. Even then weight is not a foolproof way of evaluating a car's structural strength.

For eg: Hondas sold in India has ACE structure, while the cars they sell abroad has ACE+G-CON. ACE is enough to protect the occupants of the car, while G-CON reduces damage to other cars too. (Link) In India, we dont have the concept of reducing damage to other cars, so we wont be getting G-CON in the near future. So a car with ACE+ G-CON will obviously be having a higher weight compared to the one with just ACE, doesnt mean the car we get here is unsafe.
deerhunter is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2017, 16:37   #322
BHPian
 
civic-sense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 679
Thanked: 710 Times
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

Well we have seen how the 850kg Baleno crumbles during an accident. If the nexa-premium Baleno is such, i can imagine how the built-for-a-price Swift would fare. I'll stay away.
civic-sense is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2017, 16:51   #323
BHPian
 
saargoga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dehradun
Posts: 62
Thanked: 25 Times
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
Well we have seen how the 850kg Baleno crumbles during an accident. If the nexa-premium Baleno is such, i can imagine how the built-for-a-price Swift would fare. I'll stay away.
How do you suppose if another car from similar category will perform in the accident you saw?

baleno standard gets 3star NCAP with safety equipment it gets 4 star incidentally that is no less than for figo.

http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/suzuki/baleno/24498

Premium is a marketing buzzz word for most manufacturer built for a price? 5-8 lac on road is cheaper? clearly not many manufacturers are taking safety seriously and it is bad if the market leader is doing so. If loaded to the brim with all safety features then this same car will cost 2 lacs more and will score 5star then will it be premium enough?
saargoga is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2017, 17:06   #324
BHPian
 
civic-sense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 679
Thanked: 710 Times
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by saargoga View Post
How do you suppose if another car from similar category will perform in the accident you saw?

baleno standard gets 3star NCAP with safety equipment it gets 4 star incidentally that is no less than for figo.

http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/suzuki/baleno/24498

Premium is a marketing buzzz word for most manufacturer built for a price? 5-8 lac on road is cheaper? clearly not many manufacturers are taking safety seriously and it is bad if the market leader is doing so. If loaded to the brim with all safety features then this same car will cost 2 lacs more and will score 5star then will it be premium enough?
Ford Ka gets 3 stars in EuroNCAP and Figo gets a 3 here. The Swift 2010 got 5 in Europe but scored a zero here. Imagine what the EuroNCAP three star Baleno would score here?

Am not going to trust a Maruti on safety. Period.
civic-sense is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th March 2017, 09:54   #325
BHPian
 
saargoga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dehradun
Posts: 62
Thanked: 25 Times
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
Ford Ka gets 3 stars in EuroNCAP and Figo gets a 3 here. The Swift 2010 got 5 in Europe but scored a zero here. Imagine what the EuroNCAP three star Baleno would score here?
Am not going to trust a Maruti on safety. Period.
By here you mean the swift version made in India? I was not aware of that and upon searching got this result. So you have a point there . http://indianexpress.com/article/bus...p-safety-test/

I am aware lots of manufacturers do that case in point being Indian KWID vs exported KWID. In that sense I think all manufactures are guilty party even Honda which is still ahead in safety in sub 10lac bracket.

With safety ratings in place in coming years maruti will have no other way to hopefully upgrade that.

I am not in the market for new car but that 2017 swift looks pretty slick for what it is.
saargoga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th March 2017, 11:27   #326
BHPian
 
SoumenD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: B'lore
Posts: 263
Thanked: 335 Times
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
The Swift 2010 got 5 in Europe but scored a zero here. Imagine what the EuroNCAP three star Baleno would score here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by saargoga View Post
By here you mean the swift version made in India? I was not aware of that and upon searching got this result. So you have a point there . http://indianexpress.com/article/bus...p-safety-test/
True 2010 India-specific swift got zero but what you are missing is that was the base model(Lxi/Ldi) which had no airbags,Zxi/Zdi was never tested AFAIK. Just FYI even the Polo got a big zero when base model(w/o any safety features) was tested during the same time, post which VW made airbags & ABS standard and the rating shot to 4.

Agreed the structural rigidity of Indian swift is not as good as the exported one but I just wanted to highlight the 'ZERO' rating point. In EURO NCAP any car without airbags and ABS is a default zero no matter how heavily its built.

All said and done I am really scared about the current direction of light weight Marutis. Baleno suits my requirement to the T, but the light build scares the hell out of me. Will await the BNCAP results before taking any decision.

Edit : Thanks Leonshashi for the update about the Z being tested.

Last edited by SoumenD : 9th March 2017 at 11:36.
SoumenD is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th March 2017, 11:30   #327
Senior - BHPian
 
Leoshashi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: India
Posts: 1,834
Thanked: 9,546 Times
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoumenD View Post
True 2010 India-specific swift got zero but what you are missing is that was the base model(Lxi/Ldi) which had no airbags,Zxi/Zdi was never tested AFAIK.
The Z variant was tested and it got a decent 3 star rating. However, there is difference in the way the structure reacted in case of the Indian swift, compared to the EU Swift which was tested in 2010.

Also, a 5 star rating in 2017 isn't the same as 5 star of 2007. The standards have evolved.

Regards,
Shashi

Last edited by Leoshashi : 9th March 2017 at 11:34.
Leoshashi is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th March 2017, 12:30   #328
BHPian
 
civic-sense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 679
Thanked: 710 Times
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoumenD View Post
Agreed the structural rigidity of Indian swift is not as good as the exported one
That is quite an understatement. This is what the report says:

Quote:
The crash analysis showed the crash-test-dummies having sustained near-fatal injuries, more so in the case of the driver. The car's structural integrity was also deemed as unstable. And this is a key point, given the made-in-Europe Swift has a much sturdier structure and had achieved a 5-Star crash certification from Euro-NCAP.
Doesn't that scare you?

See this. This is the Indian Swift:
Name:  marutisuzukiswiftcrashtest_625x300_51414988538.jpg
Views: 2705
Size:  129.7 KB

And this is the European Swift
Name:  hqdefault.jpg
Views: 2653
Size:  27.1 KB

Not scary enough?
civic-sense is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th March 2017, 14:20   #329
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 9,797
Thanked: 14,895 Times
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

Going OT but in line with the previous posts.

Maruti Suzuki Swift speculated for a 2018 launch will need to undergo the mandated Bharat New Vehicle Safety Assessment Program (BNVSAP) which differs from the Euro NCAP test.
So let us await for the ratings when they are published rather than speculating.

Again we will for sure debate on the differential ratings achieved when both the Euro NCAP and BNVSAP results are published.

Quote:
Unlike the Global NCAP, where vehicles are given a safety rating on a scale of 1 to 5 stars, the BNVSAP will have a safety rating in the range of 0.5 to 4.5 stars for vehicles that pass the frontal tests at a speed of 56 km/hr. The speed for side impacts will be set at 50 km/hr. Only the vehicles that pass the frontal crash tests at a speed of 64 km/hr will receive a 5 star rating.
The New Swift will be built only in 2 locations.
1. Japan ( Serves Japanese and European markets)
2. India

More pics of the 2017 Swift for Europe,

The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-1.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-2017suzukiswiftn00vq2r2.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-2017suzukiswift.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-3.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-en.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-suzukiswifteurodebutgeneva6.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-ov1.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-ov.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-d.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-suzukiswift15.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-h.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-0.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-2.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-4.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-5.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-k.jpg
The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan-cq5dam_web_1280_1280.jpg

Source(Pics): Motor1/Quattroruote

Last edited by volkman10 : 9th March 2017 at 14:37.
volkman10 is offline   (11) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10th March 2017, 11:10   #330
BHPian
 
SoumenD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: B'lore
Posts: 263
Thanked: 335 Times
Default Re: The 2017 next-gen Suzuki Swift. EDIT: Revealed in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
That is quite an understatement. This is what the report says:



Doesn't that scare you?



Not scary enough?
Absolutely scary and you would have understood if you noticed the next paragraph in my post. Re-quoting myself. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoumenD View Post

All said and done I am really scared about the current direction of light weight Marutis. Baleno suits my requirement to the T, but the light build scares the hell out of me. Will await the BNCAP results before taking any decision.
My current drive is a maruti from yesteryears when I barely had any knowledge on safety standards. But Next upgrade ought to be a relatively safe car because of which the wait continues for BNCAP to get into full effect.

End of

Last edited by SoumenD : 10th March 2017 at 11:13.
SoumenD is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The 2017 Hyundai Verna. Launched at 8 lakhs, ex-showroom Delhi RavenAvi The Indian Car Scene 1005 20th October 2017 23:45
The Next-gen Nissan Micra. EDIT: Revealed at Paris Auto Show RavenAvi The International Automotive Scene 57 24th April 2017 09:37
Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Ritz and Swift coming in 2015 and 2017 respectively JayPrashanth The Indian Car Scene 38 12th February 2016 21:26
*SCOOP* Honda Brio DIESEL caught. EDIT: Only for next-gen Brio in 2017 kpzen The Indian Car Scene 377 6th September 2015 02:55
2009 New Suzuki Wagon-R launched in Japan EDIT: 2013 facelift launched in Japan thainogkok The International Automotive Scene 46 12th September 2012 08:44


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 06:58.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks