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Old 7th December 2017, 21:08   #196
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

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Originally Posted by Joxster View Post
.. India should really focus on greener electricity before trying to introduce EVs on such a large scale..

On the positive side, for the air polluted cities like Delhi, there could be hope on this front, if one were to go by the article below:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/61495277.cms
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Old 8th December 2017, 03:37   #197
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

If we really want to bring down pollution we need not wait for 2030. A few low hanging fruits are available to the Governments (state and central) that can be implemented in reasonably short time.

- Provide bicycle lanes in mega cities (Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai, Kolkata, Bangalore, Hyderabad etc) and ensure they are not encroached by road side vendors.

- Stop the corporation/municipality trash collectors from burning the trash, instead segregate, recycle and dispose the rest properly.

- Build underground sewage system, Strom water collection/drain systems and prevent industrial effluents, domestic sewage mixing with water bodies.

Last edited by Thermodynamics : 8th December 2017 at 03:40.
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Old 10th December 2017, 23:00   #198
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

I want fellow members to read this blog Dirty Electric: With electrics, we will just be replacing diesel with coal. Crazy! by Shapur Kotwal.

Here is an excerpt:

Quote:
What most people tend to forget is that electric cars don’t make any power, they only consume it. This is a fundamental difference. Understand it and you will understand the issue. So when you compare a petrol or diesel car with an electric, remember to attach a power station to it in your mind. Got the picture? Good.

Now this electricity has to come from somewhere; and that is problem number one. Yes, there are places in the world where electricity is being produced cleanly. But today, here in India, and in the foreseeable future production of electricity is the problem not the solution. Get this: 60-70 percent of our power today, depending on who you ask, still comes from coal. Even getting it down to 30-40 percent will be near impossible due to the rising demand. And add approximately six million electric car to it every year by 2030 and the load will just skyrocket.
And then I want everybody to read this news report filed today.

Over 300 coal-based power plants continue to emit more as deadline to comply with strict emission norms ends.


An excerpt:

Quote:
Polluting coal-based power plants across the country were supposed to comply with strict emission norms by Thursday - a deadline set by the environment ministry two years ago.

But, over 300 of them did not do so by taking refuge in a relaxed approach of the ministry towards them at the behest of the Central Electricity Authority (CEA) which sought more time for these plants to install required instruments for meeting those standards.

The Delhi-based think-tank Centre for Science and Environment (CSE) has estimated that the power sector alone contributes 60% of the PM (particulate matter), 45% of sulphur dioxide, 30% of nitrogen oxides and 80% of mercury emissions of the total emissions from the industrial sector.

“The inaction by government to implement emission standards for coal-based power plants is a clear indication of the lack of political will, and demonstrates that the interests of some industries (power plants) is placed above public health”, said Sunil Dahiya, senior campaigner of the Greenpeace India.

Now I do agree with Shapur Kotwal on the opinion that if the electricity produced is not clean, then what is the point of using an EV?

A vast majority of the electricity produced in India comes from Coal. And as the report suggests they are so lazy about doing anything which would help improve emissions.

And there appears to be completely lack of coordination between the various ministries of the Government.

On one hand we are seeing a good initiative being launched by one arm of the Government and on the other we are seeing the other hand appearing to be going the other way.

We should discuss it. After all, the onus will be put on us, in the end. We will have to pay for that EV. We will have to pay for that electricity. Whatever solution comes from the government, it always has some agenda of milking out more money from the people.

And we are paying and will continue to pay for the harmful effects of the air pollution.
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Old 11th December 2017, 10:11   #199
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

One thing about the above article I'd like to differ with - "Electric cars don't make power - they only consume it" . Not necessarily true. There are enough systems designed with regenerative power systems that can either feed an auxiliary unit or just feed back to the main. It may not be a reality today for common use but such systems are being tested and optimized for mass production.

Also, the whole argument that we are blowing up coal to get electricity doesn't go the distance when it comes to other means / ability to generate electricity. Think wind / wave energy mechanisms. For now, the challenge is transmission and storage. And there are a bunch of smart people involved in getting over these hurdles. Once these become mainstream, we may just let the dinosaurs rest in peace.

I also think we differentiate a lot between the West and India to the point we kind of say that we can't get over certain hurdles. Think e-Commerce, Think Uber, Think Digital payments. None of this was even around in India 8-10 years ago. Yes, for the electric power stuff, we need infrastructure, distribution etc. But all these have been solved and can be solved in India.

My confidence is placed in our young smart workforce in the making and I am sure they will not just jump over these hurdles; they'll do a giant leap over it.
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Old 11th December 2017, 18:31   #200
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

My 2 cents...
Whoever owns and lives in an individual home/villa, install the Solar plant. Its very simple. Start with 4 solar panels [250W each] and 2 batteries [12V each] to power up all but 15A power appliances.
I am not talking in air, I am running all my 5A appliance [including the Refrigerator and 0.5HP motor to pump water from sump to over head tank] with the above setup for the past 3+ years. This is just with 2 batteries and I was told I can attach more such batteries to increase the load capacity to charge e2O. But, I didn't go that far and I sold my e2O eventually due to other reasons :(

While I am doing this in Bangalore [dull] weather, my cousin is able to do it much more effective in Chennai. Reason being, the solar panel starts charging as early as 6:00AM in Chennai in this month of December. Imagine March to June!

Net-net - Dont depend on State Electricity Board, instead use the solar power to create your own domestic power plant!

You may PM me for more details if interested.

Prem.

Last edited by kaviprem : 11th December 2017 at 18:33.
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Old 11th December 2017, 19:04   #201
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

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Originally Posted by kaviprem View Post
My 2 cents...
What was the approximate cost and area required per panel ? Also how many years does it take to break even with reduction in power bills, assuming that you are not selling the generated power back to the grid ?
Asking here instead of PMing so that others who might have the same question won't end up sending multiple PMs
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Old 11th December 2017, 19:52   #202
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

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Originally Posted by perty View Post
What was the approximate cost and area required per panel ? Also how many years does it take to break even with reduction in power bills, assuming that you are not selling the generated power back to the grid ?
Asking here instead of PMing so that others who might have the same question won't end up sending multiple PMs
I know, we are going OT far away. Lets take a chance for a good reason!

Area - ~ 40 sqft. and technically its not a waste of your terrace space since you can elevate the panels and use the shade under that space!

Cost - ~ 1,40,000/- 3 years ago for my setup. I dont know how far the prices have changed now.

Power generation - ~ 5 units per day.

Cost per day - ~ 30/- [assuming 6/- a unit in Bangalore].
Monthly cost - ~ 900/- saved.

Do rest of the math.

Primary criteria - you are NOT installing solar unit @ your home for saving electricity bill, instead be self sufficient.

When Bangalore [my area] had 3 days/nights of power failure a couple of years ago, it was only my home that had power to light up, pump up water, store milk and curd in right shape in refrigerator.
To me, these kind of basic necessity and comfort can NOT be compared to cost you save.
Of course, saving on monthly bill is an additional benefit We dont want to ignore that.

I heard that BESCOM [Bangalore Electricity Board] has a way of feeding power back to the grid that would make the meter run in reverse to negate the power units we consume. I haven't explored that yet. Call me lazy

Prem.
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Old 16th December 2017, 13:07   #203
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

Better sense prevails , clash of ideas!

Minister against ‘bulldozing’ auto industry over e-cars. Says someone who is responsible for e- vehicles should make the announcement.

Quote:
As ministers, we make many announcements because we want to set targets. And when we set targets, it is important to have deadlines, otherwise there is no point. That is fine. However, if we are not successful till 2030, it doesn’t mean that the industry is a failure. To make it successful, we have to take all stakeholders together
Quote:
We have to move forward in a phased manner. So, my ministry and I have not made any announcements. But announcements are being made by other ministers. Someone who is responsible (for e-vehicles) is not doing it, those not responsible is making announcements. It is a democracy, it is natural.
Link

Last edited by volkman10 : 16th December 2017 at 13:09.
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