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Old 20th April 2016, 13:14   #1
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Default No sub-4 meter SUV or sedan, says Toyota!

Arrogance or a strategy, not sure but looks like Toyota is no mood to really give in to the market tactics other manufacturers lap up otherwise

More read - http://indianautosblog.com/2016/04/t...led-out-228903
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Old 20th April 2016, 13:18   #2
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Default re: No sub-4 meter SUV or sedan, says Toyota!

They are the company who launched Etios and Liva in India and called it "Q-Class". They already learnt their lesson!
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Old 20th April 2016, 13:29   #3
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Default re: No sub-4 meter SUV or sedan, says Toyota!

I am not saying that this is a good approach or a bad one(both have their advantages and disadvantages), but with a car like Etios and the Liva in their portfolio, I fail to understand their reasoning.
I hope that they launch the 'International' Vios in its next-gen form in India.
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Old 20th April 2016, 13:49   #4
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Default re: No sub-4 meter SUV or sedan, says Toyota!

Sure Toyota, have your way and don't make tailor made cars for India only.

But then, can you bring in the products that you have in your international line-up?
Shed the conservative grab and launch good products and see the volumes go up, which is so crucial to the Toyota style of operations.

Prioritize

1) Bring in the Vios sedan, Rush SUV and Avanza MUV which will address three glaring gaps in the product line-up, especially since Innova going up the price ladder is not helping things much.
2) Leave the small car segment to Daihatsu.
3) Stop flogging the 1.4 D-4d. Either engineer it to give more power or bring in the 2.0/2.2l Toyota AD diesels of the same vintage that were used in the European market.

4) The Etios duo is rumored to get a new 'tophat' for 2017. Make the styling exceptional and the interiors inviting.

5) BRING IN THE Toyota CH-R ASAP with the Corolla powertrains or any new engine and see the sales fly off. Most of the those who buy Creta don't know or don't care about the segment, pricing, technicalities and stuff. They are just looking at the styling and a reliable badge, much like i20.

6) Don't launch indian tailor made products if you wish, but please ensure that the global products are launched here.


The Toyota CH-R
Take this gamble Toyota. Even price it at a premium over the already overpriced Creta. Would be the best decision after the Innova in the Indian market.
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Last edited by DicKy : 20th April 2016 at 13:52.
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Old 20th April 2016, 14:02   #5
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Default re: No sub-4 meter SUV or sedan, says Toyota!

Guys, the article mentions only about sub 4m SUV and Car

Extract from article - "As far as the sub-4m category is concerned, we donít want to make tailor-made cars only for India that is something that weíve been saying is a compromised solution of sorts, whether itís a car or itís an SUV".

Of course, every other model is tailor made to suit Indian conditions and demand. Otherwise how do you justify, Corolla "L" model (lowest variant) in US coming with 8 airbags whereas Top variant of Corolla in India still coming with 2 air bags.
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Old 20th April 2016, 14:06   #6
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Default Re: 'No tailor' made cars for India, says Toyota!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DicKy View Post
But then, can you bring in the products that you have in your international line-up? Shed the conservative grab and launch good products and see the volumes go up, which is so crucial to the Toyota style of operations.
Spot on bro! Still wonder what's so hateful about India that Toyota neither wants to develop a market specific model (going forward) nor does it intend to bring some established products from its international line-up.

What is Toyota really worried about?
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Old 20th April 2016, 14:26   #7
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Post re: No sub-4 meter SUV or sedan, says Toyota!

I wouldn't blame Toyota for making this statement. In my opinion they have taken a very mature decision in not developing tailor made cars for Indian market thereby showing that they aren't interested in narrowing down their concentration on one particular car market but have a broader scope to cover various car markets around the globe.

To begin with our market has been smitten by the sub 4 meter bug since the past few years. The sub 4meter segment has only tasted success due to the tax restraints. From a sedan to an SUV and everything in between is now available in sub 4 meter size. People want a car with a boot but don't want to pay the extra taxes for a full sized sedan. Same goes for the SUV's, people want more space but don't want a full sized traditional ladder on frame SUV. Hyundai/Honda/Maruti/Ford are the top contenders in this sub 4m rat race! Heck even VW has joined in with the Ameo.
While the likes of Dzire/Amaze in the sedan segment and Ecosport/Vitarra Brezza in the SUV segment are the biggest money spinners in the Indian market they wouldn't be anywhere close to the success they enjoy here if they are sold outside Asia.
In such case spending millions on research and development to build a sub 4m vehicle which they cannot sell in the much profitable American/European markets would be a monetary loss for them. Not to forget the risk of developing a market dud due to the fickle nature of our market.
If they had gone with the market tactics and made tailor made vehicles specifically for Indian market the amount of monetary profits gained and the subsequent boost to the company reputation would surely be profitable. But by avoiding to spend millions in developing market specific products and rather concentrate on selling the already established ones like Corolla/Camry/Innova/Fortuner which are common to all the markets looks like a very wise move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latheesh View Post
They are the company who launched Etios and Liva in India and called it "Q-Class". They already learnt their lesson!
The Toyota Etios and the sibling Liva were actually great VFM products simply tarnished due to the "TAXI" image they got stuck with. Mechanically they were as reliable and efficient as their competitors.
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Old 20th April 2016, 14:38   #8
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Default re: No sub-4 meter SUV or sedan, says Toyota!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline_GT View Post

The Toyota Etios and the sibling Liva were actually great VFM products simply tarnished due to the "TAXI" image they got stuck with.
Nope, they failed due to the below average, uninspiring looking interiors and excessive cost-cutting. The Taxi innings of the Etios started later. I began to appreciate the Swift's interior after looking at the Etios twins interior. Also the customers had/have the option of the Dzire at marginally less price which gives equal if not better reliability. Thus, the reliability factor was nullified by Maruti.

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Old 20th April 2016, 14:42   #9
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Default re: No sub-4 meter SUV or sedan, says Toyota!

What I fail to understand is why do they feel they won't be able to sell sub 4m suv outside India? Ecosport is the prime example of that. It has had success in Latin America and Europe. Its even headed to United States.

Why can't Toyota develop something on similar lines, and then use some marketing experience and sell the product as widely as possible.

Even more than this, there are market specific cars from every manufacturer if the market is big enough. I just feel Toyota has lost confidence that it can't manufacture best selling cars when being cost competitive. Every other manufacturer, is adding factories, capacities but no such news from Toyota since quite some time. Don't expect a number cruncher from them any time soon.
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Old 20th April 2016, 14:59   #10
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Default Re: 'No tailor' made cars for India, says Toyota!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinair View Post
Spot on bro! Still wonder what's so hateful about India that Toyota neither wants to develop a market specific model (going forward) nor does it intend to bring some established products from its international line-up.

What is Toyota really worried about?
I can really think of only two major reason for this apathy.

One. Toyota doesn't really make a product for a single market use only, rather going for the one car for global use route. Exceptions are there for USA and Japanese markets, but overall a product is designed with at least half of the globe as the target market.

The Etios was designed for India, but Toyota also had plans to launch it in other markets like South Africa, SE Asia and South America.

And the second reason, the biggest one I reckon is the presence of well established facilities in the Thailand which were set up a good couple of decades earlier than Indian operations.

By default Toyota should have been manufacturing in India due to our custom regulations but the Thailand facilities may have forced Toyota to be lax in the Indian market, which may explain their decision to go upmarket when the Etios failed to make the desired impact.


To put into perspective, Indian operations make the Corolla, Innova, Fortuner and Etios with a capacity of 159,000 units for domestic consumption.
Whereas the Thailand operations make the Prius, Corolla, Camry, Camry Hybrid, Vios, Yaris, Hilux, Fortuner, Hiace, Noah, Dyna with a capacity of 626,000 units mostly for exports.

Just look where we get the kits for the assembly of Camry, Endeavour, Honda et al and also the ASEAN FTA have led to Toyota prioritizing ASEAN operations over that of India and hence the slumbering elephant approach for India

Of course. Toyota will reconsider if it gets volumes, but for that to happen they must first launch products that gives them volumes. Chicken n egg
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Old 20th April 2016, 15:53   #11
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Default re: No sub-4 meter SUV or sedan, says Toyota!

Good for Toyota!
They have been giving out statements at various points of time, all pointing out that they are not willing to enter the mass market.
The products that they have produced for B and C segments proved to be boring duds though they have good mechanicals and spacious interiors. Where they currently score have the market is the D segment - Corolla, Camry & the Innova, all leading their respective segments.
It is quite tricky for them, because what is considered small size sedan (Corolla) in the USA is possibly one of the largest sedans in India! So anything bigger would make them overlap with the luxury brands, which probably will not succeed. (What are the chances of a Toyota succeeding at a large scale if priced similar to a C-class?)
My opinion - At least get a good hatchback here, even if you are not interested in 4m race. The race of sub-4m cars will probably fade in a few years, may be at the announcement of a different import duty figures.
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Old 20th April 2016, 17:05   #12
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Default re: No sub-4 meter SUV or sedan, says Toyota!

I think this is fantastic news. They should ensure that no more watered down, el cheapo cars are launched for the Indian market. No more tin cans like the Etios & Liva. No more plastic cladding by the ton on a Liva to make a lousy Crossover.

Let Toyota launch the same cars that they sell globally in India and with the same engines, features and crash test standards. Treat us like first world citizens, since we end up paying much more than them anyways (including our ridiculously high taxes).

Give us good cars and we will reciprocate by buying them.
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Old 20th April 2016, 17:05   #13
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Default re: No sub-4 meter SUV or sedan, says Toyota!

I just wonder what took Toyota so long to figure this one out? Made-for-India products will work only if it is breaking the mould in some segment, or if it is badged "Maruti", "Mahindra", "Tata".
Any global car maker is best off either introducing mildly tweaked versions from their emerging markets product line, or a model from their EU/Japan line-up with appropriate cost cutting measures & branding to suit the Indian segment being targeted.

Toyota always had access to Daihatsu models if they wanted to attack the mass market. This would have been a much better strategy to begin with. However, even with the Etios twins, things have not gone all pear shaped (except for sales numbers ). These cars still command some respect for durability and reliability.

About time Toyota re-thought their entire product strategy for India. Looks like they are doing exactly that. But then, with the kind of numbers they are doing here, executive management might not give this country the attention and priority needed to achieve the immense potential. So, in executing any product strategy, they could still fail. There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and lip.
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Old 21st April 2016, 00:45   #14
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Default re: No sub-4 meter SUV or sedan, says Toyota!

The reason for this is that the volume of business India as a country gives to Toyota is very insignificant as a proportion of their total world turnover. Whether we like it or not, India is just a DOT on the World map for Toyota. Its a place where they should exist as a company because of our large population. It is a business decision. Probably they are still here is also because their partnership with their Indian counterpart Kirloskar has worked without any issues as such.
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Old 21st April 2016, 07:18   #15
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Default re: No sub-4 meter SUV or sedan, says Toyota!

Great move by Toyota; should be from the fact that the Etios twins did not do well as they expected.
It’s ideal when brands stay true to the virtues which made them popular or desirable in the first place and not dish out third-world specific models (in better words, cars for emerging markets!). I hope their Japanese counterpart (Honda) also soon follow this path.
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