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Old 1st September 2016, 10:55   #46
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Thumbs up Re: Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal

As an tiny investor in Tata companies and as an automobile enthusiast, the Singur setback saddens me.

But, on the other hand, I am delighted to see that the land grab that politicians and officials do in the name of "public purpose" has been given the boot by the SC.

'Public purpose' is an ambiguous term and a deadly tool in the hands of the corrupt. The concept of eminent domain has been twisted beyond recognition by the state to suit private enterprise for profit.

Taking over land by force citing public good and then turning it over to private parties for profit is not democracy. It is unfair even by the so - called law of the jungle.

If I want your land, I have to pay the price you ask.

Edit: Although the judges differed on this part, I find the implication of this judgement a slap on the state's abuse of power:

1) The state, not any other entity (even if it is a statutory corporation) has to acquire property for public purpose.

2) Compensation for such acquisitions has to come from state coffers and not loans.

Last edited by Yeldo : 1st September 2016 at 11:02.
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Old 1st September 2016, 10:56   #47
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Default Re: Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal

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Originally Posted by redcruiser View Post
I could not find out from the verdict if TATA or the Govt would get back the money they invested in paying compensation to the farmers. I guess that is remotely impossible.
No compensation would be returned by the landowners. That would be the compensation for them not being able to use the land for 10 years. Also, those who had refused compensation earlier as a stance shall be offered the same again for the above mentioned reason.

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Originally Posted by Yeldo View Post

If I want your land, I have to pay the price you ask.
I hope you know that the Singur agitation was NEVER about how much money is being paid. It was about not wanting to part with the land no matter what. That is why quite a few of the unwilling farmers did not even take the initial price+solacium.

Last edited by blackasta : 1st September 2016 at 11:00.
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Old 1st September 2016, 11:04   #48
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Default Re: Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal

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I hope you know that the Singur agitation was NEVER about how much money is being paid. It was about not wanting to part with the land no matter what. That is why quite a few of the unwilling farmers did not even take the initial price+solacium.
Yes Sir. I followed the issue and the lawsuit.

And I wholeheartedly support "not wanting to part with the land no matter what" part also.
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Old 1st September 2016, 23:18   #49
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Default Re: Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal

This is a precedent-setting and heart-warming judgement by the Hon'ble Supreme Court of India!!!

In terms of impact, I would rate this even better than the Hon'ble SC's courageous decision to strike down the diabolically crooked 2G spectrum allocations!

Make no mistake - as an automobile enthusiast and a hardcore Tata Motors fanboy (at that time) I was saddened by the initial hurdles faced by the Tata Nano project. But as a human being who believes individual rights, freedoms and liberties are supreme and trump any power wielded by any government or private cabal or enterprise, I was completely opposed to the way in which the agitating farmers' lands were acquired forcibly by the government of WB (of that time) for private profit.

Forcible government-sponsored land grabs for private profit (like the ones in Singur & Nandigram, among many others) are serious black marks that question the very basis of Indian democracy and violate even the fairly limited individual rights enshrined in the constitution. This kind of rubbish didn't even take place during colonial rule prior to 1947.

More recently, I was utterly aghast when the crony capitalists of India (supported by international crony capitalists) came up with what can only be called as a government-sponsored land grab bill. When it (rightfully) faced massive hurdles in Parliament, the crony capitalist brigade tried to get it passed repeatedly through the back door. Thankfully, the people of India were saved from such a nasty monstrosity of a law only because of political rivalries.

Do note how both the left and right sides of the political spectrum harbour similar tendencies when it comes to violating individual rights. The centrists and others are equally bad on this aspect as well. It is up to the citizens of India to stand up for their rights by opposing such abuse of power by governments acting in tandem with the crony capitalist brigades. The judiciary is the only ally of the citizens in this regard.

This judgement therefore makes me very happy that the citizens and the judiciary were able to slap down such monstrous abuse of power!

Last edited by RSR : 1st September 2016 at 23:20.
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Old 2nd September 2016, 10:10   #50
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Default Re: Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal

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Originally Posted by redcruiser View Post
I could not find out from the verdict if TATA or the Govt would get back the money they invested in paying compensation to the farmers. I guess that is remotely impossible.
No return of money, it has been clarified by the SC as part of decision. It is not only a setback for Tata's but also for the erstwhile Left Front Government. And I am not commenting on the money spent in land acquisition; SC has challenged the very basis of state policy and high headedness while obtaining fertile land from farmers. This would also help in paving the way for pending land reforms in the country very similar to GST.

Recoveries would have been impossible otherwise also. Even Tata's might not have been interested in it as its a time consuming process with possibility of very limited success.

Tata's have already booked the losses when they shifted to Gujarat as part of the Nano Project.

Done and dusted, companies move on. The real problem would now be with the state administration:
- to return the exact piece of land to the right owner
- to convert the land use back to agriculture instead of commercial / industrial
- to manage issues pertaining to few interested farmers who might not want to carry out agriculture and would want to retain non-agriculture status

It is a long list of issues which is required to be addressed. Good that Tata Motors are out of it and can focus on their core business - Make good vehicles !

Last edited by i74js : 2nd September 2016 at 10:14.
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Old 2nd September 2016, 13:02   #51
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Default Re: Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal

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Originally Posted by i74js View Post
Done and dusted, companies move on. The real problem would now be with the state administration:
- to return the exact piece of land to the right owner
- to convert the land use back to agriculture instead of commercial / industrial
- to manage issues pertaining to few interested farmers who might not want to carry out agriculture and would want to retain non-agriculture status
+1

- to prevent the land from being misappropriated by politicians, real estate goons and the likes
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Old 2nd September 2016, 16:15   #52
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Default Re: Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal

I read recently that State is bound to compensate the company in this particular case :
Source: http://swarajyamag.com/politics/sing...ause-for-cheer

excerpt from the article:
Section V of the lease deed signed between Tata Motors and WBIDC in March 2007 states: If a court or any other authority holds/declares that the land acquisition has not been in accordance with the provisions of law or gives any adverse order which prevents the development/use if the said land by the lessee, then the lessor (WBIDC) shall indemnify and compensate the lessee (Tata Motors) for any losses as may be suffered.

Tata Motors has already states it suffered a loss of Rs 1400 crore on account of not being able to operationalise the car plant at Singur and being forced to shift it away to Sanand in Gujarat. In the last fiscal, the company wrote off Rs 309.99 crore from its balance sheets on account of Singur.

Since the Supreme Court has deemed that the state government (under Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee) erred in acquiring the land and did not follow the due process of law while doing so, Tata Motors can easily claim that it had to suffer for no fault on its part and the indemnity clause in its lease agreement with WBIDC should be invoked.
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Old 2nd September 2016, 20:38   #53
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Default Re: Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal

I think this is too little too late. I don't believe the land is going to be fertile any more after all the concrete and what not would have been put there to build those buildings.

If the land can no longer be used for agriculture, the farmers will have to sell their land forcefully now.

Most of all, big loss for Bengal and a big gain for Gujarat. Thanks to what Tata has started in here, more car companies are setting up plants.
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Old 5th September 2016, 11:47   #54
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Default Re: Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal

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Originally Posted by Asifgrkhan View Post

Don't make a saint out of a businessman. A very successful businessman but have no doubt where he will stand on an ethics vs profits conundrum. I admit he is not the robber baron type of businessman either but he is no Mother Theresa.



The measure of greatness is doing the right thing when no one is looking. Not taking advantage of each and every loophole possible and then crying foul when the actual aggrieved victims cry out.

If the Tata's had propriety in mind, they would have arranged for an equitable price for the land, afterall it was agricultural land and the literal livelihood of people that was in questions. This wasn't the only case of Tata and land causing problems.
I do take exception to your views above. There are hundreds of examples of the Tata group going much beyond what is expected of them to help the country and its citizens, so "true greatness", etc. are terms that we should not throw around lightly.

Secondly, the land was not bought by the Tatas - it was bought by the State Government and given to them. I remember an interview Ratan Tata had given way before the land acquisition. A reporter asked him "Why Bengal, with all its problems?" and he answered - "precisely for the reason you ask this question - that part of the country needs industry and jobs and it is our humble attempt to help out".
He had also realised that a very large number of patients at the Tata Cancer Hospital in Mumbai travel all the way from Bihar, Orissa, Bengal and the NE and so along with the plant, Tatas decided to set up a cancer hospital for the people of that region.
Even after the whole Singur fiasco, I am told by Tata employees that he was adamant to set up the hospital because the people needed it.

The hospital is a reality now.
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Old 6th September 2016, 09:52   #55
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Default Re: Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal

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....
He had also realised that a very large number of patients at the Tata Cancer Hospital in Mumbai travel all the way from Bihar, Orissa, Bengal and the NE and so along with the plant, Tatas decided to set up a cancer hospital for the people of that region.
Even after the whole Singur fiasco, I am told by Tata employees that he was adamant to set up the hospital because the people needed it.

The hospital is a reality now.
I seem to echo your views of the Tatas'. They definitely do business with a difference.
I have worked at the Tata medical center in kolkata and it is one state of the art hospital catering to eastern india. I have been witness to how well the hospital is being managed. The success of the hospital, which has now crossed 5 yrs in existence, speaks of the commitment the Tatas' have in turning a vision into reality!
Maybe their factory at singur would have changed many things for Bengal or maybe not, but definitely both the farmers and the Tatas' have lost the battle to politics.
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Old 6th September 2016, 11:11   #56
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Default Re: Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal

I dont want to sound political here, but a certain "sister" just made use of the situation, vote bank politics and grabbed power. It was never about poor farmers anyway.
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Old 6th September 2016, 21:29   #57
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Default Re: Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal

The discussion on this thread and outside of it about this topic clearly shows what is wrong with India and why we remain to be land of the poor.

Agreed, selling land to industries at lower than market rates is not on. It should be leased to them as long as they use for the right purpose. But thats not actually the issue here. The issue is of using fertile land for industry.

Irrespective of weather you support it or not, the should be done through a proper law. One cannot wake in the middle of the night and say I will oppose this project because it is coming up on fertile land. And once you make a proper law, stick to it until you live.

I am sure mamata will never come up with a proper law and in a few years will invite industry to set up projects on the same fertile land.

Tatas were in Bengal at the wrong time and wrong place(state not singur)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asifgrkhan View Post

Don't make a saint out of a businessman.
First of all, every one (including a farmer) is a businessman in life. There are a few bad ones but that does not make the whole group bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asifgrkhan View Post
I admit he is not the robber baron type of businessman either but he is no Mother Theresa.
Mother Theresa is a fraud. She received millions of dollars in donations but only used a very small part of it for charity. Where did the remaining money go. Even her being saint is also a fraud. Relatively, I have better respect for Puttaparthi Sai Baba (comparison is between two frauds). Please google about her. Few years back a canadian non profit organization did a study on her and came to a conclusion that her greatness is a creation of the media.

Last edited by manson : 6th September 2016 at 23:23. Reason: Formatted post and fixed typos.
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Old 6th September 2016, 22:35   #58
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Default Re: Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal

Now this:

'After Singur victory against TATA's, Mamata now woos German auto giant BMW'

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/m.../1/758151.html
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Old 7th September 2016, 13:58   #59
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Default Re: Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal

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Originally Posted by blackasta View Post
Now this:

'After Singur victory against TATA's, Mamata now woos German auto giant BMW'
Bengal Motor Works??
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