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Old 17th May 2016, 22:56   #136
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Seriously guys, who cares. This is a country where 99%* of those who buy insurance, do so for financial investment purpose. Inspite of the probability of losing our lives to an accident, natural calamity, terrorist attack, how many of us over here have made our wills. Or kept details of our investments, bank accounts etc in a sealed envelope?

You actually want me to think about abs/ ebd/ blah blah and pay 10 lacs, whereas keeping a statue, or hanging something will get me by.

* may not be 99%, but am sure is a very high percent.
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Old 17th May 2016, 22:59   #137
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
Not sure why the Eeco was picked. It is an old model and did not need NCAP to test and tell us that it has failed the test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
I'm still curious why these cars were chosen. The Eeco is a really irrelevant candidate!
From the monthly sales threads of the past 2 years:

More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all-untitled.jpg

The Eeco is a pretty strong Maruti-Suzuki seller, specially in the commercial segment. Typically, the company is selling as many Eecos as Ertigas, Celerios & Ciazes, despite the fact that the UV comes with a petrol option only! It is also a consistent top 3 topper in monthly sales, along with it's cousins, the Omni & the Ertiga. Demand for the van has actually increased in the past one year or so, as can be seen from the image posted above. So, in terms of sales, it can be deemed as a superhit.

No doubt why it was chosen as a prime contender for testing. And, no surprise on it's pathetic performance in the crash results either.

People in the know will hopefully avoid this particular "people mover" in the future, I hope.

Of course, cab operators and urban runabout users will always have a different story/set of excuses to tell.

Last edited by RavenAvi : 17th May 2016 at 23:15.
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Old 17th May 2016, 23:01   #138
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

The results are really shocking, and that's an understatement in itself I guess.
Out of all the cars, Celerio seems to have performed on threshold, and it should have fared better with Airbags.
Nevertheless, score of 0 for all 5 cars which share space on Top 20 selling cars in India is alarming. In case of Scorpio, manner in which entire dash caves into cabin is diametric opposite of its image. Structure just gives up, A-pillar seems to be too fragile and result is a poor score. Had great respect for Mahindra, specially after the earlier generation Pick up exported from India scored reasonably fair. Like Hyundai and Maruti, Mahindra also found an easy way out. And Scorpio isn't exactly cheap.

Kwid : Renault reinforces only driver side which is a complete nonsense. And what's the proof that this will be adhered to in regular production ? Given the group's track record in Go, I wouldn't trust them. But seriously, what about Kwid on the roads ? There would be many who paid their hard earned money for a car that literally is a tin can. Price point has to be considered, but then such poor performance is not expected from a car designed in contemporary times. Chief competitors of Kwid haven't done any better.

Wasn't expecting much from Eon and Eeco specially after looking at earlier tests of Maruti and Hyundai products. Celerio came closest to a threshold point and there was no deformation in roof near B-pillar. Such deformation was observed in Swift, err made for India Swift.
I am honestly eager to see similar tests of Tata products like Zest, Bolt, Safari, Tiago and Honda too. India has a long way to go before we can even have international quality in our sight. Another aspect is that people somehow believe Airbag means safety is "covered". The first basic safety is a good structure, else IMO, Airbag can't be a life saving instrument.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 17th May 2016 at 23:11.
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Old 17th May 2016, 23:14   #139
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

I feel it's a disingenuous argument to say that the Indian public is not willing to pay for safety and that is why the manufacturers don't offer products that are safe.
If manufacturers advertised that at a lower price, you would get what is basically an unsafe car, we might see consumers flock towards safer options. Obviously no manufacturer is going to do this willingly and that's where organisations like GNCAP help.

Anyway a lot of people (myself included) buy the higher variants thinking that it would be safer. This turns out to be useless considering that most of these cars don't even meet basic structural integrity expectations. So even those who are willing to spend extra are getting a raw deal.

Finally, all the manufacturers seem to be hiding behind the garb of non-existant crash safety norms in India. They are completely abdicating their moral and societal responsibility towards their customers and user base. This argument is like a bank failing to place customer deposits in a safe and then saying that nobody stipulated that.
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Old 17th May 2016, 23:27   #140
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by procrastinator View Post
We are looking for a new car with safety being one of the important aspect.
Although we can speculate but I would like to know about hot selling Elite i20 and Kwid.

I wish to know about Brio/Amaze/Jazz as no car from Honda stable has been crash tested.

It would be interesting to see how Indian manufacturers cars Zest/Bolt/Tiago or KUV/TUV fare in crash test.




tests by NCAP are only tip of iceberg.

when we discuss the safety on road, the following concerns come to the mind:-
  • Death of the pedestrians by fast moving vehicles.
  • Death of people on 2 wheelers, 3 wheelers and bikes.
  • Death of the occupants of the cars.
Pedestrians, people on bikes, scooters and 3 wheelers are devoid of air bags and other safety gadgets, as such they are purely on the mercy of NCAP certified/uncertified fast moving cars.



In USA if a person defying traffic rules and puts his foot on road, the cars stop moving, giving preference to the pedestrian. We should hope that some day fast moving car drivers will learn to respect the traffic laws in India also.



instead of only relying on NCAP results there should be data in public domain to tell us the model of the car in which the traveler died. This would prove to be a useful tool to understand the safety worth of the particular car.


Efforts of NCAP are worth applauding. it would be better if it becomes mandatory for every car to undergo such a test by NCAP or any other statutory body, so that people can buy a car comfortably.
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Old 17th May 2016, 23:35   #141
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I hope they test Fiat Punto and Linea, which might be eye opener to all and to myself as a user of Avventura.
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Old 17th May 2016, 23:35   #142
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Since there was lots of posts regarding other Mahindra vehicles including XUV500, sharing this video.

XUV has 4 start ANCAP rating. However, unless an India model is tested we don't know for sure if there is any difference structurally for India and export models.

XUV crash test video
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Old 17th May 2016, 23:37   #143
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
What horrific videos!

As things stand today, if you want safety under 4 lakh rupees, your best bet is the pre-owned car market.


very true. instead of looking for 'new features' in cars, it would be worthwhile to go for a pre-owned car, which might not be having rain sensing wipers or climate control but might be equipped with air bags and other life protecting features.
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Old 17th May 2016, 23:38   #144
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
That is all good, but what about actual Indian road conditions? A quick glance on the accidents in India thread show BMW/Mercedes/Audi and all high end cars crumpling like tin cans and killing occupants inside simply because they hit a truck/bus chassis and there was no way that the car could have protected the occupants from the impact.
True, true. This safety topic has been all the rage in this forum for a couple of years now, one side saying that the European manufacturers have got it all figured out and the other saying that weight or so called "tank"ness or sheet metal gauge do not matter as much as intelligent design, reinforcement structure and reliability. Any person should know by now that both sides are correct in some ways, and very, very wrong in most others. The NCAP tests are just a basic outline for safety, it shows what would happen at the standard speed of 64 kmph when a car meets with the rear end of another stationary car (the blue box like barrier is not rigid and is meant to simulate another vehicle). This is taken as the benchmark and nothing more, real world accidents be it in India, China or America will differ very much. The only safety test that is most brutal and exacting of a car's safety standards is the AIIHS with its overlap crash against rigid barriers and even that is not all that practical.

Scientifically, the sheet metal has very little to do with safety.. there is no arguing that thicker or more rigid sheet metal can prevent dents, and also prevent rattling to some extent more than lesser rigid sheets. Here again, there are some exceptions like carbon-fibre or toughened plastic being used as roof/hood/bumpers which are much lighter yet resist dents because they simply pop back in most circumstances.

The body shell, now this has an unarguable basis to safety. Be it the frontal crash beam, cross-welded door pipe beams, rigid high tensile roof support beams etc. They all come together to decrease the gravitational force in the case of an accident yet crumple at the right places so that only the portion outside the cabin is subjected to crushing power of the reverse gravitational force and impact.

Electronic safety assists like ABS, airbags, lane change warnings, EBD etc also play a very big role in the safety sense, as long as the body shell is well planned out. Both however, also depend on safe, conservative driving and using seatbelts as the first line of safety. No car is safe when above a certain speed and surely not when seatbelts aren't worn.

Now that that's said, yes the situation is indeed unique in India. Flashback to just a decade ago, airbags and safety weren't even in the top 10 list of things in an average Indian consumers mind when buying a car. Today it makes the top 3 easily. We have a huge variety of vehicles for our jugaad loving population to travel in, be it autos, buses or bikes and they constitute the primary threats for car drivers. No 2 accidents in India are ever the same so all we have now are the standardised test results which can give a certain benchmark of safety. It isn't about whether a car is the safest, it is more like how much safer is the car compared to one in the same price bracket. When it came to Kwid, Celerio and Eon the results were least surprising.. each failed in its own way although the Kiwd really took a beating. The Scorpio was no surprise either, it remains an old model and I seriously doubt Mahindra thinks of safety more than they do, value, space & power. These results will give a good start to the clarity and transparency increase with regard to safety when on the road. Will this result in 100% safer cars for the nation? NO, even America and Europe do not have 100%, not even close to that.. but it sure will make existing models safer than ever before and also bring about a new awareness that while a car can indeed be more comfortable & safer than an auto or 2 wheeler, one must always invest wisely when it comes down to it.. a 20-30% cost increase for a top trim with electronic safety assists is always better than buying basic trim and of course.. investing in a new or even 2nd hand Rs.5-10 lakh car would ensure much better protection than in a new < Rs.5 lakh car. Lets take the positives out of these sample crash tests, it can only get better from now.

Last edited by dark.knight : 18th May 2016 at 00:04.
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Old 17th May 2016, 23:50   #145
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Not surprised with the results.
Wont be surprised either if few senior officials of these companies justify the test results stating " even with zero rating, their car is safer than a two wheeler which millions of indians ride"
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Old 18th May 2016, 00:16   #146
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

It is truly sad looking at some of the vehicles that are currently in the market. Having driven the Eeco for a short while, the high centre of gravity it has just shows when you cruise on highways at moderate speeds. It is just a tall box! I do not know how manufacturers sometimes overlook the aspect of safety for cost to this extent. It was no surprise that these vehicles failed the test. I truly hope the Government puts in place certain basic standards for safety, because given a chance, the majority of car buyers in India would still prefer lower cost compared to safety. That mindset will definitely take time to change.
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Old 18th May 2016, 03:08   #147
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

I know its irrelevant as well as insignificant, but has the Indian Punto been smashed up against the wall ? I wasn't able to find any GNCAP ratings for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksameer1234 View Post
I just found a two year old video of ASEAN NCAP test of Vista. Looking at it, the structure appears to be fairing pretty well.


Assuming that Zest / Bolt are more or less Vista facelift, can they be termed safe enough? Being a Zest owner, it would indeed give some confidence in case of any mishap.
That seems to have taken the impact pretty well for a economy grade hatch. however, for the first time, I am seeing the Airbag crack up the front screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackasta View Post
While we are discussing on airbags and structural integrity, I am alive today because of safe cars.

Take a look - this happened in 2010 - I was driving the blue corolla and had rear ended the volvo s80 at about 25-30 mph (40-50 kmph) out of a traffic light.

Zero injuries to anyone. Corolla - totalled !

Please buy safe cars - a request to all.
No doubts about Volvo's strengths, but Front and the rear are designed to take impact differently no ? I assume the front is designed to collapse more easily for pedestrian protection ? I am not sure though.
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Old 18th May 2016, 03:32   #148
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

A majority of these are hatchbacks which are built like matchboxes and hence the abysmal rating can be understood but was really shocked to see Scorpio in this list. For a car that sells north of 8L, having this deplorable safety rating is just not acceptable. Guess this should serve as a much needed wakeup call for M&M and force them to focus on their overall build quality.
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Old 18th May 2016, 04:11   #149
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by thehighwayman View Post
A majority of these are hatchbacks which are built like matchboxes and hence the abysmal rating can be understood but was really shocked to see Scorpio in this list. For a car that sells north of 8L, having this deplorable safety rating is just not acceptable. Guess this should serve as a much needed wakeup call for M&M and force them to focus on their overall build quality.
Hatchbacks can be very safe, just look at the Honda Jazz, Mazda 2, Suzuki Swift, VW Polo, Renault Clio etc, full list below:

http://www.howsafeisyourcar.com.au/S...ze=light%20car

People need to wake up and demand safe cars. Everybody deserves safety on the roads, not just corrupt politicians who can afford luxury cars.

I've posted these photos before, but it just shows how a safe car can make the difference between life and death. Photos are of a 2010 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Hatch which was involved in an accident between 2 trucks in South Africa. Driver walked away with a few minor bruises.







It is a testament to the build quality that the cabin and the dash have still maintained their shape and the occupants have been protected well.
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Old 18th May 2016, 04:43   #150
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Can someone mention any safe as well as hit car in India, I can't count even One.
EcoSport's structure is altered for India, Elite i20 with 6 Airbags was discontinued due to lack of demand or cost-cutting, Creta has one variant with 6 Airbags as an exception but at the same time Creta is considered expensive notoriously and same goes for Innova Crysta which has knee airbags too.
XUV is not selling as it was earlier, Fiats, VWs, etc. are already flop and are sold at good discounts.

Doesn't that says everything about our market.

We have thousands of posts on TBHP itself 'threatening' the manufacturers regarding the price of various new launches.

We discuss ad infinitum about one car is not having puddle lamps and other not having rain sensing wipers and whether these features are deal breakers or not, so manufacturers can't be entirely blamed.

Does anyone think if Kwid hasn't been priced the way it is after compromising on build quality, it would've stood any chance against Alto (while Eon didn't) and we would even be discussing it. It would've met the same fate as Datsun GO.

This thread clearly shows the difference between the thinking process of India and Bharat.
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