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Old 18th May 2016, 10:57   #181
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

A request to mods: please add these crash test results to the respective car's official review first page. It needs to be mentioned as a first point in the "what you wont like" list in the summary. We need all prospective buyers (not just forum members) to be aware of these crash test results before they make a decision.

I would also go to the extent of hiding the Car of the year thread with us (Team-BHP members) declaring Kwid as the winner. Now that the crash test results are out, it only misleads the folks looking for positives in the car.
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Old 18th May 2016, 10:58   #182
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by Games Goblin View Post
Seeing how all of the entry level hatchbacks have failed the test, I am wondering what is the most affordable car in India one can buy right now which does pass the Global NCAP? Is it the VW Polo?
It is Chevrolet Beat I think. 4 star rating (with airbags of course; And Euro NCAP, not tested by GNCAP).
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:00   #183
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by Games Goblin View Post
I am wondering what is the most affordable car in India one can buy right now which does pass the Global NCAP? Is it the VW Polo?

With the known G NCAP results only VW Polo or Etios Liva are the safe hatchbacks available now, all the rest are speculations.

Last edited by volkman10 : 18th May 2016 at 11:01.
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:06   #184
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by SnS_12 View Post
Defiant Maruti says co not in violation of crash tests in India

The vehicle safety group Global NCAP's report on Tuesday said that as many as five popular passenger vehicle car models in India, including Maruti Celerio, Renault Kwid, Mahindra Scorio and Hyundai Eon, failed crash tests with 'zero star' rating.

Reacting to the report, RC Bhargava, Chariman, Maruti Suzuki India said the GNCAP is a voluntary standard and no country requires you to pass its standards. So there is no fear of exports being hit, he added.

Full article: http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bus...a_6682381.html

He is not worried of exports being hit, but what about the safety of the people travelling in their cars???
Sounds like a typical guy from management - it's all about $ and sales figures for them and they don't give two hoots about the fact that it's actual people who are at risk from their crappy products.

The sad fact is, most people won't look at the NCAP and other safety ratings because everyone thinks it won't happen to them - until it does and people die.

People need to boycott these manufacturers - hit them where it hurts; when their sales drop then maybe they will wake up and start producing safe cars. It's just astounding that in this day and age we can still buy cars without basic safety equipment. I remember when my grandfather went to buy a Maruti Suzuki Omni van in 1996 - it had no safety equipment whatsoever. Nothing. Not even seat belts or crumple zones. In fact the sales guy was surprised that we were even asking questions about safety etc. Needless to say we didn't buy the car. Looks like things have changed very little in 20 years.
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:14   #185
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Really saddened to see the results. I was wondering what Team BHP as a community can do for this? As some forum members have said about educating family and friends is fine to have a local impact but what about a larger impact? Few thoughts from my end:
1) NCAP crash videos to be added to the front page of T- BHP car review itself when available. There are many many non members who read our review before purchase. It would lead to a more informed choice. Also the reason for front page is to ensure maximum visibility as some of the buyers may not read the entire thread.
2) We could start a twitter campaign say #giveussafecars and try to make it viral
3) Safety could also be one of the criteria when we decide on the COTY. Its really sad that our choice- KWID turned out to be this unsafe.
I am sure other members would have better ideas for what we as a community can actually do about the unsafe cars peddled to us by the manufacturers and the total apathy towards safety as is evident in their responses.
Cheers
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:25   #186
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Article in today's Mumbai Mirror :

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/columns/...w/52317587.cms

INDIAN CARS FLUNK GLOBAL CRASH TEST
Quote:
......
The latest to receive the dubious zero-star rating are the Hyundai Eon, Maruti Suzuki Eeco and Celerio, Mahindra Scorpio and Renault Kwid. Among those tested, only the Toyota Etios Liva managed to get a four-star rating for driver safety. It was equipped with --you guessed it -- two airbags.
......
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:34   #187
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by flying_spur View Post
After contemplating between buying a used sedan with airbags and a new celerio last year, I went ahead and bought the celerio.I hoped that it would get at least 2 stars, but it has failed miserably. My next car will surely be a used safe sedan from the 15+ lakh bracket.
People keep repeating this as the solution but it isn't. Buying an old car from higher segment would have it's own set of issues: No warranty, unknown history- possible flood/ accident wreck/ stolen, rusting and other wear and tear, tampered mileage, low fuel economy, and higher maintenance costs. The government is the biggest culprit, not having proper crash test norms and allowing manufacturers to get away with building substandard India specific garbage.

Last edited by mxh : 18th May 2016 at 11:36.
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:37   #188
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
I think we are saying the same thing. 'Unstable' seems to be the terminology used by NCAP to indicate a compromised structure. Which in our layman terms is exactly as you have mentioned. Crumples like paper and airbags are irrelevant in such a scenario.

Wish they do a test of the XUV. we always talk about how well equipped it is for the price at which it is offered. Now wondering if that VFM factor is helped by compromises on structural stability and build.

Another learning would be that a big heavy looking build need not translate into good safety-As shown by the Scorpio and at the same time a light build need not translate into bad crash ratings-As shown by the Toyota Etios which has been ridiculed for its light and flimsy looking/feeling build but still scored 4 stars.
Absolutely, Rajeevraj! Their terminology seems to veer more towards euphemism than to bald visible facts! - who knows, maybe they (NCAP) too need to be careful not to ruffle too many feathers! I know what you mean about testing the XUV - I had a good deal of respect for M&M and still love my old Scorpio. But the sad truth is, that with these tests it is obvious that the current M&M line-up is nowhere near ready to meet international safety requirements. And heavy build = good safety as a mantra can now be safely thrown out the window. And all the jargon about side-intrusion beams for side impact protection is all fine - but I feel that frontal head-on collision impact protection (at the testing speeds, not the insane speeds which took princess Di's life) is the urgent need. I hope the smug cats at M&M are paying heed.
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:38   #189
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

David Ward, General Secretary, Global NCAP, says that more crash tests are in line by end-August/early September.

Apparently, 3 cars are in the shortlist (according to Autocar Professional) - a fourth version of the Renault Kwid, and two new selections from Indian OEM car manufacturers.

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He also defended the 64 kmph-speeds used for crash testing, saying that when two vehicles collide at those speeds, the impact speed across both vehicles is around 55 kmph.

Excerpts from his interview:

Quote:
The tests show that without crash tests standards, which India unfortunately does not have right now, automobile manufacturers do not have any incentive to introduce such safety features.

But carmakers argue that the benchmarks that GNCAP follows are not as per safety standards laid out by the government in India. Twenty years ago, we faced similar situations in Europe where some OEMs (original equipment makers) questioned why we are doing what we do. It is a natural instinct to complain. Our intent is to provide information to the consumer.

A simple test on the basis of pass or fail will not meet that intent adequately. We are testing vehicles at higher speeds to help the consumer compare the performance of vehicles of different manufacturers.

Testing at 64 kmph is the normal practice in NCAP across regions. The reason why higher speed matters is that its helps compare the performance of different OEMs. At 64 kmph, when two vehicles collide the way the physics work is that the speed across both vehicles is 55 kmph.

64kmph is also the speed at which fatalities are likely to occur the most and our intent is to mitigate and reduce fatalities. So the argument that average vehicle speed in India is much lower than in Europe and therefore vehicles here should be tested at lower speeds does not really stand when you look at it from the vehicle safety perspective.

In Bharat New Vehicles Assessment Programme, the final guidelines of which will come out shortly, the thought is to get five stars the vehicle has to be tested at 64 kmph.
ET

Last edited by RavenAvi : 18th May 2016 at 11:53.
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:39   #190
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

We, at Team-BHP, are very very angry and upset with the car manufacturers for failing to meet basic safety standards in their cars and understandably so.. This thread is on it's 13th page as I write and growing very rapidly!

Last time, when they tested cars like Swift/Go/I10, the results were similar and those cars and manufaturers were heavily criticized. Remember the irresponsible statements by the Maruti Chairman then! But, the question is - what impact did it have on the sales of those vehicles? A BIG ZERO! Swift continued to bring in record numbers and with it's twin Dzire they have been ruling the sales charts for a long long time. So, why will the company care? And I am sure these results won't have any impact on the sales on the above vehicles.

The point I am trying to make is that while the manufacturers can be blamed, the people have to take the blame as well. There is lack of awareness but even people who are aware don't give a damn! I have spoken to many friends, colleagues, neighbours on this topic and the general attitude is - "I drive moslty in city, why do I care?" OR, " I drive safely, it won't happen to me" etc etc. The truth is very sad and disconcerting - Most people value a touchscheen audio unit or push button start or DRLs than safety. Otherwise, how will you explain people buying lower variants of the car without safety features and then spending a fortune on HU/audio/alloys? I have seen people regretting the money 'wasted' on ABS/airbags as they were forced to buy the top variant for some fancy feature like touchsceen audio (for example). Car buying decision in our country is driven by looks, features,mileage. Safety is nowhere in the the priority list. There are few exceptions but not significant to change the market dynamics and force companies to think of safety as a top priority. I know awareness is increasing among the car buying public nowadays but not at a rate fast enough to impact the market dynamics. Forums like this and other media like Print, news channels, auto magazines need to play a more active role to change the mindset of people towards safety. Hope for better times ahead!

Few takeaways from the tests -
Weight/Size of the vehicle does not have any relation with safety. (The tin can Liva and the mighty Scorpio provide great examples)
The structure of the cage/vehicle is more important than any other safety feature. Airbags make a difference only if structure is safe.

PS - I would like to see some Honda vehicles getting tested. They are probably the only big manufacturer which has not been tested by GNCAP in India

Last edited by adimicra : 18th May 2016 at 11:42.
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:52   #191
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
Absolutely, Rajeevraj! Their terminology seems to veer more towards euphemism than to bald visible facts! - who knows, maybe they (NCAP) too need to be careful not to ruffle too many feathers! I know what you mean about testing the XUV - I had a good deal of respect for M&M and still love my old Scorpio. But the sad truth is, that with these tests it is obvious that the current M&M line-up is nowhere near ready to meet international safety requirements. And heavy build = good safety as a mantra can now be safely thrown out the window. And all the jargon about side-intrusion beams for side impact protection is all fine - but I feel that frontal head-on collision impact protection (at the testing speeds, not the insane speeds which took princess Di's life) is the urgent need. I hope the smug cats at M&M are paying heed.
XUV had received a 4 out of 5 sometime back (couple of years back) in ANCAP (Australia). Please google for historical news on this. I have not seen any new ANCAP results for it though.
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:58   #192
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by mxh View Post
People keep repeating this as the solution but it isn't. Buying an old car from higher segment would have it's own set of issues: No warranty, unknown history- possible flood/ accident wreck/ stolen, rusting and other wear and tear, tampered mileage, low fuel economy, and higher maintenance costs.
I can take care of all these above issues than driving a new car without any airbags. But that's just me and it will vary from person to person.

Adding to missing airbags, there are companies who are also compromising on body of the car by giving low grade materials. But still people buy due to the popularity.
We can go on and on (it will be another discussion), let's stick to the topic.
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Old 18th May 2016, 12:01   #193
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Some people concerned about safety of cars like Figo, City etc. Well for all I remember, Figo(old one) had received 3.5 stars in GNCAP. As for City, it is probably the safest car among the under 10 lakh sedans, although not sure about the ratings. Couple of years ago when I studying about crash safety in my college, my professor was bragging about the City. So if City is safe, Jazz should automatically be as well. Generally speaking, Honda, Ford and Toyota are the only ones I would trust, as far as safety is concerned.
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Old 18th May 2016, 12:04   #194
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
As expected automakers react to the Global NCAP tests,
These answers appear as if they have come out of some answering machine, not a human.
Shame on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amey027 View Post
Generally speaking, Honda, Ford and Toyota are the only ones I would trust, as far as safety is concerned.
Well, you could add VW, Skoda also to the list as well. They have fared well in these tests so far.


On other thoughts, I am really looking forward to the Safari Storme test, given that it is the nearest competitor to the Scorpio and weighs even more.

Last edited by abhishek46 : 18th May 2016 at 12:07. Reason: added quote
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Old 18th May 2016, 12:12   #195
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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A request to mods: please add these crash test results to the respective car's official review first page. It needs to be mentioned as a first point in the "what you wont like" list in the summary. We need all prospective buyers (not just forum members) to be aware of these crash test results before they make a decision.
Absolutely agree with you here! Tbhp is a major influence , and manufacturers will take notice. I dont know how many feathers it will ruffle , but hey, thats not going to stop us from advocating what is right , right ?

If packaged food can be banned based randomly tested for chemicals which may harm consumers, I think government should certainly step in for cars which may (potentially) kill its occupants.
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