Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th May 2016, 14:41   #226
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: mum,lko,kolkata
Posts: 530
Thanked: 522 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by challasravi View Post
XUV had received a 4 out of 5 sometime back (couple of years back) in ANCAP (Australia). Please google for historical news on this. I have not seen any new ANCAP results for it though.
Well now, that is certainly heartening news - I guess I've been out of touch with this whole NCAP safety business! So, unless Global NCAP have got a whole new set of safety parameters, the XUV should do reasonably well there too. If that does indeed happen, it would be balm to the soul of a whole lot of us here!
shashanka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2016, 14:42   #227
BHPian
 
TD_GHY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Guwahati
Posts: 168
Thanked: 326 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitpunjani View Post
Q.Scorpio variant does come with Airbag, why didn't NCAP test Airbag variant, perhaps the one with airbags, would have got some decent score? Or does NCAP only test the base variant?
The base variant was tested. Consider the case where base variant scores 0 but top variant scores 1 or 2. If top variant is used, manufacturer will label all variants as 1 or 2 and sell them. But if the base variants get a score above 0, it can be safely assumed that all other variants will also be 0+.

Quote:
Q. Do OEMs voluntarily provided there cars for testing or is it NCAP initiative?
Cars were bought without the knowledge of manufacturers. Else, they wouldn't have allowed the base variants. But it seems like Renault did voluntarily. Sending different cars by tweaking the design with every iteration.
TD_GHY is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2016, 14:46   #228
BHPian
 
veyron_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 396
Thanked: 199 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashua View Post
The brazen attitude with which R C Bhargava dismisses the test results because they were done at 64 km/h and not at 56 km/h is both ridiculous and unbelievable. I am no expert but surely a difference of 8 km/h is not going to result in a night and day difference in the test results.
Not Suprised. Here is what he said in 2014, equally defiant about need for safety: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3579873 (Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements)

I was just wondering, if I am willing to pay more for a good structure and safety features, does Maruti actually have at least one 5 star car that i can buy in India?
veyron_head is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2016, 14:48   #229
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 37
Thanked: 9 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by TD_GHY View Post
But it seems like Renault did voluntarily. Sending different cars by tweaking the design with every iteration.
But Renault was too smart for their own good. Did not the report say that Renault improve on the drive side but no changes done to the passenger side? But the smart GNCAP engineers saw through it.
sawah is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2016, 15:01   #230
BHPian
 
AutoNoob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NCR
Posts: 197
Thanked: 185 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidzzone View Post
I can understand Airbags and ABS will add to the cost of the car, but if structural safety is considered during development, will it add significant cost to each unit of the car?
The net per vehicle cost impact is not high (for enhancing structural safety; not counting ABS & airbags), but to the bean counters sitting with only porfitability in mind that also matters.

To my estimate it won't be more than Rs. 1000-1500 per vehicle for the added stiffeners etc. This is assuming that the manufacturer has already planned a variant for higher spec (export etc.); i.e. design and tooling is ready and validated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigkey View Post
There are reports that Ford Ecosport made in India but exported to other countries have various additional components to enhance structural strength compared to the ones sold in India...

I would believe the ratings to be true only if cars tested were made in and purchased from India and not export models. Hope this clarifies.
This malpractice is rampant among almost all manufacturers big and small; and not limited to India only. I have seen this myself; so, I agree big time your point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashua View Post
The brazen attitude with which R C Bhargava dismisses the test results because they were done at 64 km/h and not at 56 km/h is both ridiculous and unbelievable. I am no expert but surely a difference of 8 km/h is not going to result in a night and day difference in the test results.
Can someone ask him how the regulatory testing speed was limited to 56km/h and not 64 km/h ? The automobile manufacturer associations across world lobby and usually get what suits them. The usual excuses are limited availability of technology, cost, capacity, blah, blah...
AutoNoob is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2016, 15:02   #231
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Pune
Posts: 127
Thanked: 61 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by deevee View Post
I loved VW Vento but 2 airbags doesnt inspire a lot of confidence and moreover its VW.

Any advice would be appreciated as I am a little scared and I need to take a decision soon to book a safe car for my family. Thanks.
From your post I can judge that you are averse to buying from the VW stable, but given your requirements and your passion for safety, why do you not consider the Jetta TSI?
harryputtar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2016, 15:07   #232
BHPian
 
SchumiFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 789
Thanked: 622 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Isn't it a case of no airbags equals fail? A car with airbags, but with an easily crushed cabin might fail, but can a car without airbags, however good the cabin structure/crumple zones are even possibly pass?

In which case, there is hardly any point in testing a no-air-bag car. They might as well just stamp it Fail and return it undamaged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Not entirely true. One star rating is possible if the structure is good enough. Case in point- FIAT Palio and Ford KA without airbags received one star rating.

Please see the post here for more detail-
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3804177 (India-made Hyundai Grand i10 fails Latin NCAP crash test)
Thad sir, CrAzY dRiVeR has already replied to your question I believe. In any case, having a stable structure should be the least of the things that a manufacturer can do when providing a car to a customer.

Before all things, I hope Indian Govt makes this mandatory. At least will make the recovery of people easier.
SchumiFan is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2016, 15:18   #233
Senior - BHPian
 
msdivy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,414
Thanked: 751 Times
Post Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Was looking at the meaning of the star rating. Here is explanation from ANCAP:
  1. In a 1 star ANCAP safety rated car, there is a very high risk of death or serious injury, with low levels of protection for both occupants, particularly resulting from injury to the head of both driver and passenger, and lower limbs of the driver red (poor).
    While the passenger fares better than the driver, the risk of serious injury or death is high from head injury. Occupants are likely to die from the injuries sustained in a 1 star rated car.
  2. In a 2 star ANCAP safety rated car, there is a high risk of serious injury or death resulting from injury to the head and right leg of the driver. Red (poor) for the head, lower right leg and both feet of the driver indicate that these injuries are likely to be serious and life threatening.
    Orange (marginal) shown on the body of the driver and passenger also indicates high levels of exposure to serious injury or death.
  3. In a 3 star ANCAP safety rated car, the prominence of orange (marginal) for the driver's head, chest, upper legs and lower right leg indicates a moderate risk of serious injury or death. The passenger fares better than the driver with good protection of the head and lower left leg green (good).
    Yellow (acceptable) for the torso, upper left leg and right lower leg of the passenger indicates a lower risk of serious injury.
  4. In a 4 star ANCAP safety rated car,
    green (good) illustrates a high level of protection of the head and neck, greatly reducing the risk of serious injury or death resulting from impact to these areas.
    Orange (marginal) indicates that there is moderate risk of serious injury to the chest of both driver and passenger, as well as the upper and lower right leg of the driver.
  5. In a 5 star ANCAP safety rated vehicle, the prominence of green (good) for the head, body and legs, illustrates a high level of protection and survivability for both driver and passenger.
    Yellow (acceptable) on the lower legs and the chest of the passenger, shows only a slight chance of serious injury to these areas, which are not likely to be life threatening.
Verdict: ANCAP recommends 5 star rated cars. Accept nothing less.

Link: https://www.ancap.com.au/safety-ratings-explained

PS: What does '0' star mean?
msdivy is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2016, 15:25   #234
BHPian
 
AutoNoob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NCR
Posts: 197
Thanked: 185 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
What does '0' star mean?
As you shared, 1-star means "very high risk of death or serious injury"

so 0-star probably means that the occupants with turn to pulp inside these tin boxes, i.e. death is certain
AutoNoob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2016, 15:32   #235
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newest Capital
Posts: 340
Thanked: 632 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by TD_GHY View Post
Every car or bike sold in India ply on Indian highways, from the tempo to the Nano to the Range Rovers. And everyone does good speeds. I remember a Nano overtaking me on the highway few years back while I was doing 80.
My point was not about NANO being safer than Kwid but the way majority of the buyers of both the cars will drive them. Kwid on highway with 4 adults can easily do 120kmph whereas only a few foolhardy will even try doing more than 80kmph in a Nano since this comes with drum brakes all around. If Kwid is as unsafe as a Nano then aren't we endangering so many lives by giving them a car which can get into trouble because of a powerful engine and light build. My suggestion is if in pursuit kmol building lighter cars is inevitable then keep them restricted to lower speeds of 110kmph like how Honda restricts diesel Amaze's top speed to 140kmph.

Last edited by damodar : 18th May 2016 at 15:33.
damodar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2016, 15:46   #236
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Lucknow
Posts: 61
Thanked: 47 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

while the lack of adequate safety provisions (as adjudged by NCAP) in the cars are major cause of concern, the following contribute hugely towards road accidents and resultant deaths :-

1. Seat belt not fastened.
2. Driver slept while driving, due to lack of sufficient rest.
3. Driving under the influence of alcohol.
4. Over speeding.

All the above mentioned factors are attributes of willful neglect by the driver. Even a good protective car will fail to save the occupants of the car if the driver is not cautious and is in habit of neglecting the basic safety norms.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 18th May 2016 at 19:32. Reason: Typo corrected
shobhitk is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2016, 15:57   #237
BHPian
 
NSK123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 108
Thanked: 40 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Cars with Airbag not scoring well in crash test is definitely not acceptable. It's cheating. Why should one then invest in airbags? Time to make rules more stringent. I think auto companies are just doing what's told than what's needed.

Need a airbag, we give you. That's all :(
NSK123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2016, 16:01   #238
BHPian
 
sun_king's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: KA05
Posts: 156
Thanked: 155 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by damodar View Post
My point was not about NANO being safer than Kwid but the way majority of the buyers of both the cars will drive them. Kwid on highway with 4 adults can easily do 120kmph whereas only a few foolhardy will even try doing more than 80kmph in a Nano since this comes with drum brakes all around. If Kwid is as unsafe as a Nano then aren't we endangering so many lives by giving them a car which can get into trouble because of a powerful engine and light build. My suggestion is if in pursuit kmol building lighter cars is inevitable then keep them restricted to lower speeds of 110kmph like how Honda restricts diesel Amaze's top speed to 140kmph.
Nano has a cutoff speed of 105 kmph. Doesn't do any good for its safety, the Nano is done at 64 kmph as per Global NCAP. The speed limit is not because of structural integrity considerations, its just because the little thing cannot handle higher speeds.
sun_king is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2016, 16:04   #239
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 176
Thanked: 298 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by NSK123 View Post
Cars with Airbag not scoring well in crash test is definitely not acceptable. It's cheating. Why should one then invest in airbags? Time to make rules more stringent. I think auto companies are just doing what's told than what's needed.

Need a airbag, we give you. That's all :(
Agree!

Airbags (2 , 4 even 6 airbags) are mostly used as a bragging point in sales pitch - See, we are giving you 6 airbags, you can assume that you will be safe. If the body shell itself is not capable of withstanding a collision, 6 airbags deploying will effectively translate to 6 explosions all around your face, while the car itself is crushing you already
Nav-i-gator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2016, 16:08   #240
BHPian
 
landcruiser123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: BLR, KA, IND
Posts: 763
Thanked: 949 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
I thought it was just Global and then ASEANCAP.
Each region has it's NCAP.

C-NCAP for China
Latin NCAP for Central and Southern America
ASEAN NCAP for South East Asian countries
A NCAP for Australia and NZ
Euro NCAP for Europe
J-NCAP for Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitpunjani View Post

Q.Scorpio variant does come with Airbag, why didn't NCAP test Airbag variant, perhaps the one with airbags, would have got some decent score? Or does NCAP only test the base variant?
Makes sense to test the base variant. A customer has to get the safety equipment, irrespective of variant. A bad score on the base variant can help us draw (unscientific) conclusions on the higher variants.

Quote:
Q. Do OEMs voluntarily provided there cars for testing or is it NCAP initiative?
NCAP buys them in the Indian context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawah View Post
why do they not use these services during the design stage itself
They should, but they don't. Many cars are designed for more mature markets, but the Indian version gets lesser safety equipment.

Quote:
Do these cars come with all components under the hood?
Yes. Fuels and oils are replaced with non-flammable liquids. I think the battery is replaced a dead-weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
In which case, there is hardly any point in testing a no-air-bag car. They might as well just stamp it Fail and return it undamaged.
My opinion is different here. Take the case of the Polo and old gen Figo. Their body structures were actually good under impact. Lack of Airbags didn't fetch them a rating. (I'll not elaborate on what VW did afterwards)

Make airbags standard on such cars, and we've got a car with a good crash safety rating. 4 stars for the Indian Polo is good. With the Curtain airbags and some more electronic aids, it might get a 5 star rating.

If the fails, just stamp "FAIL."

Quote:
Originally Posted by shobhitk View Post
while the lack of adequate safety provisions (as adjudged by NCAP) in the cars are major cause of concern, the following contribute hugely towards road accidents and resultant deaths
I know driving discipline and etiquette are absent in our country, but that's a topic for a different thread.

We're talking about how your car protects you in case of an untoward incident.

You're right- Prevention is better than cure.
landcruiser123 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too... rajess_in The Indian Car Scene 638 15th September 2016 17:15
Chevrolet Sail scores 0 stars in Latin NCAP crash tests Aditya The International Automotive Scene 13 18th April 2016 11:07
Toyota Etios awarded 4-Stars in Global NCAP Crash Test technicalytuned The Indian Car Scene 48 13th February 2016 09:58


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 22:33.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks