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Old 18th May 2016, 16:10   #241
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by rkg View Post
He told me the innova's exported have an engine with too many sensors, where as Indian version engine does not have all these sensors.
Are Innova's exported from India? I thought it was only the Etios family which was manufactured and exported from India.
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Old 18th May 2016, 16:18   #242
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Here in this forum and in general across the media, all have reacted with righteous indignation at the manufacturers callousness in the approach towards safety. This is the same reaction each time such tests are done and our cars continue to fail miserably. But has this resulted in any dent in the sales. I don't think so. Sales of biggies like Swift, Grand i10, i10 have in no way been impacted by these crash results. Similarly sales of 4 Star cars like the Etios and Polo have not really increased due to the positive rating. Hence I dont expect the sales of the Scorpio, Kwid, Celerio or even Eon to get impacted due to these results. Manufacturers will wait for the storm to blow over and then happily go on selling these cars. There will be a bunch of SA's who will feed in a load of nonsense to the customer base to justify these results. Won't be surprised if both Celerio and Kwid hit 5 figure numbers next month.

We know the India NCAP is coming. But that is still some time away, as an immediate measure, maybe the government should step in with some incentives for 4/5 star rated cars. Like they have incentives for the Sub-4m car. Just because of the savings due to that, we had all manufacturers rush to launch such 'Compact Sedans'. Introduce a lower tax for a rated car-See how manufacturers rush to meet the standards.

On a side note: In such situations the argument of a 'Even an unsafe car is safer than a bike or an Auto comes up'. I find that amusing. No one will pack their families and fly down a National Highway at 100 kmph in a bike or auto. But it is a common scene with any kind of car.
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Old 18th May 2016, 16:35   #243
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

When we have a crash test system implemented, we must have the rating stuck on the car like this:
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Source: Google Search
Note: That image is the MPG ratings as measured by the EPA.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
fly down a National Highway at 100 kmph in a bike or auto. But it is a common scene with any kind of car.
The reply will be: "I don't drive on Highways. This car is for my city use only."

I've seen the result of a side impact at 30 kmph and it was horrifying. Luckily my friend was in his Verna (which had 6 airbags) and not his SX4.

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Originally Posted by rkg View Post
He told me the innova's exported have an engine with too many sensors, where as Indian version engine does not have all these sensors.
Ignoring the "export", that could be true. Innova didn't even have an intercooler with the BS3 version of the engine. Other countries have more stringent emission norms, hence the engine may have needed more sensors.

There are numerous examples like the Corolla having 6 airbags in most other markets, the Honda City in Thailand having 6 airbags, Suzuki's diesels having a DPF in Europe.

But with regards to Innovas chassis, I think it's reasonable to assume it'll the same in all the markets it's sold in.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 18th May 2016 at 16:46.
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Old 18th May 2016, 16:45   #244
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
Here in this forum and in general across the media, all have reacted with righteous indignation at the manufacturers callousness in the approach towards safety. This is the same reaction each time such tests are done and our cars continue to fail miserably. But has this resulted in any dent in the sales. I don't think so. Sales of biggies like Swift, Grand i10, i10 have in no way been impacted by these crash results. Similarly sales of 4 Star cars like the Etios and Polo have not really increased due to the positive rating. Hence I dont expect the sales of the Scorpio, Kwid, Celerio or even Eon to get impacted due to these results. Manufacturers will wait for the storm to blow over and then happily go on selling these cars. There will be a bunch of SA's who will feed in a load of nonsense to the customer base to justify these results. Won't be surprised if both Celerio and Kwid hit 5 figure numbers next month.

We know the India NCAP is coming. But that is still some time away, as an immediate measure, maybe the government should step in with some incentives for 4/5 star rated cars. Like they have incentives for the Sub-4m car. Just because of the savings due to that, we had all manufacturers rush to launch such 'Compact Sedans'. Introduce a lower tax for a rated car-See how manufacturers rush to meet the standards.

On a side note: In such situations the argument of a 'Even an unsafe car is safer than a bike or an Auto comes up'. I find that amusing. No one will pack their families and fly down a National Highway at 100 kmph in a bike or auto. But it is a common scene with any kind of car.
How many of the buyers or the sales persons are aware of or understand any of these crash tests? The manufacturers hardly care about the concerns of a few TBHP members.
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Old 18th May 2016, 17:21   #245
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by veyron_head View Post
Not Suprised. Here is what he said in 2014, equally defiant about need for safety: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3579873 (Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements)

I was just wondering, if I am willing to pay more for a good structure and safety features, does Maruti actually have at least one 5 star car that i can buy in India?
Great question Veyron, I'm an MSIL shareholder and I like MSIL's customer service and I WANT to buy a Maruti Suzuki car, but I do not want to buy an UNSAFE car.

Currently, from their existing lineup, there is not a single certified vehicle which has passed the GNCAP. Repeated enquiries for the crash test reports of their new launches(Baleno, SCross, Ciaz) have drawn a blank.

Of their cars that were sold in India, I believe the Kizashi & the Grand Vitara were supposedly crash tested and found to be safe, but I do not have documentary evidence of that either.
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Old 18th May 2016, 17:28   #246
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by veyron_head View Post
Not Suprised. Here is what he said in 2014, equally defiant about need for safety: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3579873 (Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements) ... ... ...
Yes, more spoilt-child talk from this guy: The speeds were wrong! The test is wrong! Everybody, it seems, is wrong except him.

I don't know how this guy thinks that his statements can be good for sales

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Originally Posted by SchumiFan View Post
Thad sir, CrAzY dRiVeR has already replied to your question I believe. In any case, having a stable structure should be the least of the things that a manufacturer can do when providing a car to a customer.
Absolutely the least. And, possibly actually sufficient if people wear safety belts properly.

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
PS: What does '0' star mean?
It means the manufacturer is brain dead. Or the buyer is or...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shobhitk View Post
while the lack of adequate safety provisions (as adjudged by NCAP) in the cars are major cause of concern, the following contribute hugely towards road accidents and resultant deaths :-

1. Seat belt not fastened.
2.Driver slept while driving, due to lack of sufficient rest.
3. driving under the influence of alcohol.
4. overspending.

All the above mentioned factors are attributes of willful neglect by the driver. Even a good protective car will fail to save the occupants of the car if the driver is not cautious and is in habit of neglecting the basic safety norms.
...we can all reduce any car to 0 star rating by any of those methods and more. I wonder how many buyers look for a high rated car and then don't use the seat belts, or think they are to be saved for highways.

The responsibility is ours too, but we cannot be safe in a car that does not provide the basic structural safety that SchumiFan rightly expects.
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Old 18th May 2016, 17:38   #247
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The stocks of Indian auto firms Mahindra and Mahindra (M&M) and Maruti Suzuki fell on Wednesday a day after UK-based Global NCAP said Scorpio and Celerio failed its crash tests.

Business Today

Renault India and Mahindra assured Indian customers regarding the safety of their vehicles while Maruti refused to respond and Hyundai took shield behind the prescribed safety standards.

After Global NCAP crash test Renault India responded stating, “GNCAP announced their results today and welcomed Renault’s efforts and commitment to safety enhancement. Safety is of paramount importance for Renault and all our products meet and exceed the requisite safety standards set by Indian Regulatory Authorities. India is gradually moving towards international safety norms by including more robust safety regulations and the assurance of the Bharat NCAP is a positive step in this direction. As a customer-focused company, Renault fully supports this initiative and we are already future-ready in terms of technology, design and engineering for enhanced safety for all our vehicles. Indian Government has announced that the crash test regulation for the existing cars will come into effect in 2019 and for the new cars in 2017. Renault is committed to comply with these timelines.”

On the other hand in response Mahindra stated, “All Mahindra Automotive products are developed and manufactured to meet or exceed the safety standards set in India for a safe driving experience. In fact, many models exceed the expected regulations of 2019. The star rating as released by Global NCAP (GNCAP) in the latest crash test was conducted on non-airbags variant of the Scorpio. Typically, in any star rating process, non-airbag variants do not perform well on safety standards. Most variants of the Scorpio are equipped with airbags and a safety package. Approximately 75% of Scorpio customers choose the air bags variants of the vehicle. There is nothing more important to us than our customer’s safety. We are committed to meeting and exceeding all current and future safety norms and in most cases giving our customers choice of enhanced safety beyond the regulated standards.”

Mr. V. Anand from Hyundai Motor India issued a statement - Hyundai Motor India affirms that Hyundai vehicles are designed and build to meet all the prescribed safety standards set by Indian Regulatory Authorities.

eNewspaper of India

NOTE FROM T-BHP SUPPORT: Merging consecutive posts. Please use the EDIT / QUOTE+ function within 30 minutes of posting in order to avoid posting consecutively. Thanks.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 18th May 2016 at 18:35. Reason: Merging consecutive posts. Please use the EDIT / QUOTE+ function within 30 minutes of posting.
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Old 18th May 2016, 17:52   #248
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Every car or bike sold in India ply on Indian highways, from the tempo to the Nano to the Range Rovers. And everyone does good speeds. I remember a Nano overtaking me on the highway few years back while I was doing 80.
I don't know what you are trying to mean, whether a nano cannot not do such speeds or a Nano can do such speeds but should not be driven at such speeds.

Either way it is the manufacturer's responsibility to make sure that proper warnings, speed limiters or safety measures are there in pace to make sure the driver is well informed and is taking a calculated risk. In technical terms we call this as PRODUCT LIABILITY.

For that matter I don't know if any manufacturer in India do that anyway. Most of the fatalities are caused by the person driving due to grossly overestimating the car's overall threshold.
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Old 18th May 2016, 18:12   #249
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by Shiv_1984 View Post
I don't know what you are trying to mean, whether a nano cannot not do such speeds or a Nano can do such speeds but should not be driven at such speeds.
Apologies for not being clear. It was in response to another post which said that people won't take Nano on the highways but will take Kwids since Kwid's stance gives the impression of being able to do highway speeds. My point was a Nano can do speeds as well and is already driven at high speeds by people despite the associated dangers.

Personally, I would want drivers of all vehicles and not just the Nano to not drive at such speeds. Good for them, good for me, good for everyone.
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Old 18th May 2016, 18:19   #250
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by TD_GHY View Post
Apologies for not being clear. It was in response to another post which said that people won't take Nano on the highways but will take Kwids since Kwid's stance gives the impression of being able to do highway speeds. My point was a Nano can do speeds as well and is already driven at high speeds by people despite the associated dangers.

Personally, I would want drivers of all vehicles and not just the Nano to not drive at such speeds. Good for them, good for me, good for everyone.
No apology required mate. This is a great bottleneck with majority of our country's drivers/riders. Most of them don't understand anything about how much or less their vehicles can take and they risk everyone's life while doing something stupid.

It is a huge social responsibility which we Indians may never understand.
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Old 18th May 2016, 18:38   #251
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by Sommos View Post

On the other hand in response Mahindra stated, “All Mahindra Automotive products are developed and manufactured to meet or exceed the safety standards set in India for a safe driving experience. In fact, many models exceed the expected regulations of 2019. The star rating as released by Global NCAP (GNCAP) in the latest crash test was conducted on non-airbags variant of the Scorpio. Typically, in any star rating process, non-airbag variants do not perform well on safety standards. Most variants of the Scorpio are equipped with airbags and a safety package. Approximately 75% of Scorpio customers choose the air bags variants of the vehicle. There is nothing more important to us than our customer’s safety. We are committed to meeting and exceeding all current and future safety norms and in most cases giving our customers choice of enhanced safety beyond the regulated standards.”
Is it not balderdash, the comment from MnM on the safety standard, particularly so when the body of Scorpio gets mangled upto the driver side door, and more importantly, the roof loses shape.
Is it expecting much, that a tough looking and so advertised vehicle, to be actually tough.

Last edited by sawah : 18th May 2016 at 19:03. Reason: spelling corrected
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Old 18th May 2016, 19:45   #252
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Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
Mods: Do we want to edit Kwid's review and add that its an unsafe car and probably put in a reference to the results link. I mean shouldn't we do it for each car that's coming out with GNCAP results.

I understand that in our reviews there's no way to test safety standards but when we have substantial evidence it would only help a prospective buyer.

Yes. Nice recommendation. Mods, can we adopt such practice ? Then, it would be real meaningful review for any future potential buyer.
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Old 18th May 2016, 19:46   #253
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

It is my sincere request to all our members to show these crash test videos to the little ones in our families and highlight the importance of seatbelts, airbags and structural strength in vehicles. I used to practice this with all my nephews and nieces who fall in the age group of 8 to 14 yrs. These days, they voluntarily wear seatbelts irrespective of the seat they occupy in private vehicles or taxis and also force their parents to do so.
I am happy that I am able to educate our future generation towards road safety. Hope that number grows.
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Old 18th May 2016, 20:28   #254
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

One novice question.

While we can find out from the spec sheet features such as ABS, ESP, Airbags and so on how do we find out about structural strength of the body?
Some call it HIVE others call it ICE and all sorts of mumbo jumbo acronyms. What should be a thumb rule as such?

p.s. Was driving at a low speed on NH8 to office this morning as I was reminded of these tests. People were honking at me. Now there is also this risk of getting shot and its happened right! So many risks on Indian roads.
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Old 18th May 2016, 20:32   #255
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

The manufacturers are right in that they are adhering to Indian standards. If they were violating Indian standards, that would be wrong. Whose fault is it that the Indian crashworthy standards are so low? And the manufacturers are arguing the diesel ban issue in SC on same grounds, that they are adhering to the Indian govt standards on emissions.

The government should notify the higher standards of car safety and crash worthiness. Earlier when there were hardly any decent highways, high speeds weren't an issue and avg speeds used to be 40km/hr or less. Now that there are good two laned and four-landed highways (not to mention expressways and 6/8 lane highways) and better roads within the city too, the average speeds have gone up. The government should notify new standards and not hide behind "Indian conditions" that they usually sprout. The injuries in a car crash at 50-60km/hr is same whether in India or abroad, for same car!
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