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Old 19th May 2016, 12:45   #286
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

So some of our manufacturers are caught up in a emission scandal and the others in a crash test failure.

Safety should be paramount, I'd rather drive a detuned engine if the manufacturer would make the vehicle safer. I know the competition around these cars (Maruti, Mahindra etc) is fierce and cost cutting is needed but I don't mind if that cost cutting is in the lack of a sunroof or some features which hardly matter. We have a old gen Scorpio at home for only specific trips and seeing this I doubt it is leaving the house again. I really don't mind turning the key and not having start stop or opening my sunroof once in a year or even a less powerful engine if they can just make the car safer.
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Old 19th May 2016, 14:10   #287
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
I agree for most of your post but for the bold part.
Actually, that is a misunderstanding that a lot of people have.
What makes an old vehicle suddenly unfeasible to run from 6th year onward ... or say 8th year onward?

Most vehicles only require repair / replacement of parts that undergo wear and tear - like suspension, rusted exhaust pipes, tyres, brakes etc
I was not referring to a 6 year period. A 2010 car is already 6 years old if purchased today. After using it for another 5 years, we are talking about an 11 to 12 year old car. At this point I would replace it unless everything were to be perfect. Reliability of a 12 year old vehicle is usually not very good. After a few years one starts lusting after other cars in any case.
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Old 19th May 2016, 14:37   #288
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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What is path breaking about the Kwid?

Agree on the legislation bit. Completely unhopeful of manufacturers developing a conscience. Even less hopeful of our junta buying sensibly, aware or not.

A car which overshadows Celario, creta, Brezza, EEco, Ciaz, Ertiga, and Eon in monthly sale, is bound to be path breaking. Mighty Alto also suffered badly with the induction of Kwid.

In U.K. there has been a practice to give star ratings to the products for 'VALUE FOR MONEY'. a camera worth Rs. 200000 might get 1 star while another camera costing only Rs. 15000, might get 5 star, if its value for money is worth it. Kwid for its price is doing so many special things.

Kwid was awarded 'Car of the Year' tag. Car of the year tag does not depend only on its NCAP test.

I agree the car makers should do more to enhance the protective aspects of the cars and coform to the NCAP standards, for which I have always hoped that legislative intervention is the need of the hour.
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Old 19th May 2016, 14:44   #289
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by shobhitk View Post
A car which----SNIP-----of the hour.
Putting out a cheap car in an EXTREMELY price prejudiced market is not path breaking. Its just business sense. And its fairly apparent why it is cheap now, isn't it.
The only thing special about the Kwid in that respect is the looks. Its just offering more choice in an MS dominated segment. Good for the segment, but nothing to write home about.
Anyhoo, lets wait for how the Indian NCAP shape up now.
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Old 19th May 2016, 14:45   #290
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Had to read once again, as I couldn't believe it first time. Please watch the video to see what happens at 60. Forget 100 kmph!

Not only that, the tests are conducted by smashing into a wall. Now imagine crashing into another oncoming car that also was traveling at 60kmph.

Now imagine crashing into a heavy SUV traveling at 60kmph. Kwid is not a comparatively safer car because it's got a weak engine. That just makes it an underpowered car!
Oh! it was in lighter vein.

there are hoard of videos showing fatal accidents. normal cars can not meet the level ofg protection, provided by the racing cars, which despite traveling at very high speed, in the event of a crash, are able to save the drivers on most of the occasion.

Some day the Law will mandate that all the cars should meet NCAP norms but till then self restraint and caution are the best insurance, a person can buy.
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Old 19th May 2016, 15:40   #291
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Why Some of India’s Best-Selling Cars Fail Basic Safety Tests


Some of the best-selling cars in India–including Renault S.A.’s Kwid, Hyundai Motor Co.’s Eon and Maruti Suzuki India Ltd.’s Celerio–failed the latest crash tests conducted by a global safety watchdog, suggesting consumers and car makers in the South Asian nation may need to spend more on vehicle safety.
London-based Global New Car Assessment Programme, or Global NCAP, said on Tuesday that crash tests on five models—which also included Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd.’s Scorpio sports utility vehicle, and Maruti’s Eeco minivan– revealed only “low levels” of protection for adult occupants in a full frontal collisions at 64 kilometers, or 40 miles, an hour.

The tests showed that either poor structure or lack of air bags in the cars exposed occupants to life-threatening injuries, Global NCAP said.The results echoes similar findings in earlier tests by the watchdog on a different group of Indian cars. Toyota Motor Corp. and Volkswagen AG are the only two companies in India which offer dual airbags on all models. Most car makers tend to offer a driver or dual front airbags only on their pricier versions.

David Ward, secretary general of Global NCAP told The Wall Street Journal that the results “reflect a legacy problem in India which is a lack of regulation and also consumer’s lack of awareness. Global NCAP strongly believes that no manufacturer anywhere in the world should be developing new models that are so clearly sub-standard,” he said. “Car makers must ensure that their new models pass the UN’s minimum crash test regulations, and support use of an airbag.”

India is among a handful of emerging automobile markets including Thailand, Mexico and Indonesia which don’t have sufficient safety regulations in place, said Mr. Ward.

Responding to the findings, Maruti Suzuki, India’s largest car maker by sales, said all its products “are safe” and “meet the safety standards in India and in most cases, exceed them.”

Hyundai—the second-ranked car maker —and Mahindra & Mahindra–India’s largest SUV maker—also said their vehicles meet the current safety standards in India.

Renault had a similar statement saying, “safety is of paramount importance” for the company and “and all our products meet and exceed the requisite safety standards set by Indian regulatory authorities.”

Small cars, which tend to do badly in some safety tests, made up about ... ... ...

Continue reading...

Last edited by Rehaan : 24th May 2016 at 16:22. Reason: PM coming up regarding copy-pasted content...
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Old 19th May 2016, 16:24   #292
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by Sommos View Post
Why Some of India’s Best-Selling Cars Fail Basic Safety Tests

Mr. Ward said “people are willing to pay for safety features” and urged the companies to build safer cars immediately instead of waiting for laws to force them. “We are not talking huge amounts of money (to build safer cars),” he said. “It takes only $50 for a car manufacturer to buy an airbag”.
Just doing some "Back of the Envelope" maths...

50$ per airbag as per above post.

Assuming MSIL gives driver air bag as standard across all models all variants. MSIL sold 117045 cars in April'16 as per the "April 2016 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis " thread on the forum.

So 50$ * 117045 = 58,52,250 $

Convert this to INR at approx 65 INR per dollar and we are looking at

5852250 $ * 65 = INR 38,03,96,250 which is what like approx 39 crores.

Add a few crores more for cost of labour + cost of misc. items like wires, etc.

So we are looking at an approx cost of about 50 crores per month. Is this so much for MSIL to skip on the airbag ?

I think this is peanuts for a company like MSIL and it is high time they take safety as a serious issue.

Regards
Dieseltuned

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 19th May 2016 at 20:33. Reason: Fixing broken quote tags.
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Old 19th May 2016, 16:55   #293
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

I am also wondering why competitors who offer safer cars are not pouncing on this. I am sure if a competitor starts highlighting this as part of their sales pitch, companies might react faster.

Hope Fiat wakes up, voluntarily tests their cars and advertises the hell out of it.
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Old 19th May 2016, 17:16   #294
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by partha379 View Post

Hope Fiat wakes up, voluntarily tests their cars and advertises the hell out of it.
I know its OT, but what makes you feel that FIAT cars will pass the tests?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieseltuned View Post

Just doing some "Back of the Envelope" maths...

50$ per airbag as per above post.

Assuming MSIL gives driver air bag as standard across all models all variants. MSIL sold 117045 cars in April'16 as per the "April 2016 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis " thread on the forum.
Its not just about the absence of Airbags, it is also about substandard body structure for most of the cars tested. If I remember correctly only Polo and Etios had a stable body shell when tested.
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Old 19th May 2016, 17:34   #295
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by partha379 View Post
I am also wondering why competitors who offer safer cars are not pouncing on this. I am sure if a competitor starts highlighting this as part of their sales pitch, companies might react faster.
True. Toyota and VW are missing an opportunity to advertise themselves as 'caring' manufacturers and that their cars are much safer than the competition.

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Originally Posted by partha379 View Post
Hope Fiat wakes up, voluntarily tests their cars and advertises the hell out of it.
How are you so confident about the results beforehand? Or you have access to some data that I am missing? In my opinion, unless tested, I would not like to believe anything just because a car is 'heavy' and 'built like a tank'! Best example is the Etios!

Regards.
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Old 19th May 2016, 18:57   #296
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

My larger point was about competition not using this, replace Fiat with Ford or VW whose cars were tested last time.

Without getting into brands and going OT, the conclusion was purely based on the numbers Fiat is doing here (which makes any India specific modifications painful). Its definitely not based on the "tank feel", not going to do that as we all saw what happened to Scorpio. But yes, I will take my statement back and wait for the results.
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Old 19th May 2016, 19:11   #297
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Seeing all this going on, I do wish one thing, I hope the GNCAP takes up all vehicles that are available in India at least in a phased manner and test them.

If not all, maybe the top 20 sellers which probably account for most of the cars sold in our country.

That way we will know what is safe in its current avatar, allowing us (the ones that do care about safety above gadgets and trinkets) to make an informed decision on our future purchases.
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Old 19th May 2016, 19:11   #298
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
This is wrong data.

Something like 60% of road deaths are of pedestrians and cyclists. 25% of other two wheelers. Trucks, commercial vehicles carrying passengers (Tempo Trax, Travellers, tractors, Omnis) & buses account for a significant percentage of remaining deaths. A quick Google search (or even checking the page 3 for a month of your newspaper for traffic related deaths ) will confirm the above.

Our car penetration is not deep enough to cause 72 car passenger deaths a day. I would expect the real percentage to be just 2 or 3%.

However -

What 18% statistics could mean is that car crashing into pedertrians, cyclists and other two wheelers could have caused 18% of deaths.


Global NCAP had participated in Indian Automobile Safety Conference. I am attaching the link.

http://www.globalncap.org/wp-content...7-May-2016.pdf

It says that In India, 146000 persons lost their lives on road. out of 146000, 16.3 % were occupants of cars. this comes to around 65 deaths a day. these figures relate to 2015.

Unfortunately, the quoted figures, as aired on a popular TV channel, are true.

Let us hope that the recent NCAP results will awake the Automobile Industry.
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Old 19th May 2016, 20:02   #299
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by partha379 View Post
I am also wondering why competitors who offer safer cars are not pouncing on this. I am sure if a competitor starts highlighting this as part of their sales pitch, companies might react faster.

Hope Fiat wakes up, voluntarily tests their cars and advertises the hell out of it.
The manufacturers are not pouncing as they have realized that safety is the last priority for an overwhelming majority of Indians.
Forget spending additional 1 lakh or so for Airbags/ABS etc, Indians don't even buy helmets which cost around 2k. Bikes are way more dangerous than cars and if people don't value safety when riding bikes what is the chance they will do so when driving cars?
Lets look at Kwid vs Alto. Both are priced very similarly and offer similar feature sets. Adding airbags/abs and making the car more impact resistant costs a lot of money. Suppose tomorrow Renault offered a new Kwid which scored 5 on these tests but is priced 1 lakh more than comparative Alto. In this scenario no way will Kwid continue to sell in these numbers.
The only way anything will progress is if the Govt mandates safety and then all the manufacturers will have to adhere to these regulations. On their own, the manufactures will continue giving the market what it wants and for most part it is "Kitne ki hai?" and "Kitna detia hai?"

Last edited by timuseravan : 19th May 2016 at 20:04.
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Old 19th May 2016, 20:24   #300
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

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Originally Posted by shobhitk View Post
It says that In India, 146000 persons lost their lives on road. out of 146000, 16.3 % were occupants of cars. this comes to around 65 deaths a day. these figures relate to 2015.
The attached PDF doesn't say CARS. It says LMVs.

There are 3 or 4 categories of LMVs - private cars (for private use) are one of them, I agree.

But -

1) Autorickshaws (both transport & people carriers)
2) Share Taxis (Mahindra Jeeps, Tempo Trax, light Vans etc)
3) Tata Ace category of vehicles (both transport & people carriers)

also belong to LMV category.

The above vehicles are the only mode of transport in "Bharat" (rural India, I mean). They are packed with people most of the time and do lots of highway runs.This category of vehicles are the cause of most of the deaths in that 16.3%. As you know, many transport vehicles in this category double up as people carriers too.

There are simply not enough people travelling in private cars to cause so many deaths (because private car ownership is so low in India)

Last edited by smartcat : 19th May 2016 at 20:26.
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