Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th June 2016, 21:43   #436
Senior - BHPian
 
aravind.anand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,298
Thanked: 1,495 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
While back in India, after the G-NCAP tests, what will you get with a "new and improved" Scorpio? Bigger, more comfortable seats, reverse camera + sensors and improved plastic quality! (link)

Have they been listening? Seriously?!
Maybe they have been listening, and we sure do know many Indians, actually value -

A touch screen music system over - airbags, that help you avoid touching the steering wheel.
They also are more impressed by show stopping alloy design, over the ABS enabled brakes that stop in time.
And then, the reversing camera above a stronger structure

Outside of team-bhp, not many realize the importance of safety - but that is not an excuse for any manufacturer, despite having the safety features ready for an export market, not giving us an option

Last edited by aravind.anand : 10th June 2016 at 21:44.
aravind.anand is online now   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2016, 22:45   #437
Senior - BHPian
 
mayankk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 4,034
Thanked: 3,169 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Pawan Kumar Goenka, ----snip ----Seriously?!
The new Scorpio SUV (without airbags) scored a zero safety rating in the Global NCAP testing, but Goenka said that the model tested is built strictly for the Indian domestic market. He said models destined for SA will have the necessary safety items.

Foot, meet mouth.
Face, meet palm.
I'll just be blunt, and say it: Is he stupid?

Can an Indian firm get away with this level of disdain for their home market? Oh, Mr foreign currency. Here, have the good stuff. Geez!
mayankk is online now   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2016, 23:26   #438
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 7,550
Thanked: 6,594 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Have they been listening? Seriously?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by aravind.anand View Post
Maybe they have been listening, and we sure do know many Indians, actually value ... ... ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Can an Indian firm get away with this level of disdain for their home market? Oh, Mr foreign currency. Here, have the good stuff. Geez!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
I'll just be blunt, and say it: Is he stupid?
His sales figures probably say, no, he isn't.

Maybe someone they can't ignore will call them out. Profits at the cost of lives. Marketing with zero conscience.

But who?

Plainly, a bunch of guys on an internet forum doesn't cut it with them, and I guess we all realise that, even given the influence of T-BHP as a whole.

Are these manufacturers unshameable? It looks as if they are.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 10th June 2016 at 23:29.
Thad E Ginathom is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2016, 00:24   #439
BHPian
 
bhandary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Manipal <=> BLR
Posts: 95
Thanked: 79 Times
Default

Its our legislation that is either obsolete or lacks teeth due to which the manufacturers act with impunity. We still have a long way to go wherein the manufacturers consciously build in safety and offer uncompromising quality to their customers without a watchdog looking over their shoulders.
bhandary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2016, 00:56   #440
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 7,550
Thanked: 6,594 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

The bottom line is... the bottom line.

Major corporates have major lobby power all over the world. Wherever they are in any particular country, you can be sure they are going to be fighting for their position.
Thad E Ginathom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2016, 11:14   #441
Senior - BHPian
 
mayankk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 4,034
Thanked: 3,169 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
His sales figures probably say, no, he isn't.
Actually, I wasn't going after his sales figures. What I meant was why would you say something like that? You can acknowledge that the two versions are built differently, but in the age of 24/7 connectivity, you cannot be so non-diplomatic to appease another market, and not understand that the consumer from the other market will get to read it in about, er, immediately?
In that sense, yeah, stupid.
mayankk is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2016, 18:12   #442
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 7,550
Thanked: 6,594 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Actually, I wasn't going after his sales figures. What I meant was why would you say something like that? You can acknowledge that the two versions are built differently, but in the age of 24/7 connectivity, you cannot be so non-diplomatic to appease another market, and not understand that the consumer from the other market will get to read it in about, er, immediately?
In that sense, yeah, stupid.
Oh, I see what you mean. Yes indeed. It is a poke in the eye for the Indian customer.
Thad E Ginathom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2016, 11:38   #443
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Pune
Posts: 566
Thanked: 558 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
The new Scorpio SUV (without airbags) scored a zero safety rating in the Global NCAP testing, but Goenka said that the model tested is built strictly for the Indian domestic market. He said models destined for SA will have the necessary safety items.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Can an Indian firm get away with this level of disdain for their home market? Oh, Mr foreign currency. Here, have the good stuff. Geez!
The Scorpio has many variants, and except for the basic S2 which is sold only to institutional buyers, Govt tenders etc (Air bags not a requirement in Govt tenders) all others have Air bags, ABS, EBD, seat belt remonder as an option.
The S2 practically does'nt sell thrugh showrooms, the rest have a option of having it or not for those ready to pay, so why blaim Mahindra. They are in an market where likes of Maruti is a top seller.

Rahul
Rahul Rao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2016, 12:56   #444
BHPian
 
heavenlybull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Delhi
Posts: 118
Thanked: 105 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Rao View Post
The Scorpio has many variants, and except for the basic S2 which is sold only to institutional buyers, Govt tenders etc (Air bags not a requirement in Govt tenders) all others have Air bags, ABS, EBD, seat belt remonder as an option.
The S2 practically does'nt sell thrugh showrooms, the rest have a option of having it or not for those ready to pay, so why blaim Mahindra. They are in an market where likes of Maruti is a top seller.

Rahul
If you read the crash test report again you will notice that Scorpio's body shell itself is rated as unstable. No amount of secondary safety features can compensate for a sub standard body shell nor can spending additional cash on a higher variant give you that stable structure.

To add insult to the injury, Goenka had the audacity to claim that this version of Scorpio is made especially for the Indian customers!

http://www.globalncap.org/wp-content...NO-Airbags.pdf

Last edited by heavenlybull : 12th June 2016 at 13:08.
heavenlybull is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2016, 13:13   #445
Distinguished - BHPian
 
smartcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,673
Thanked: 9,462 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavenlybull View Post
If you read the crash test report again you will notice that Scorpio's body shell itself is rated as unstable. No amount of secondary safety features can compensate for a sub standard body shell nor can spending additional cash on a higher variant give you that stable structure.

To add insult to the injury, Goenka had the audacity to claim that this version of Scorpio is made especially for the Indian customers!
I agree, that is poor choice of words by Goenka.

However, one cannot rule out the possibility that higher variants of Scorpio has superior crash worthy body structure. On a body on frame chassis, it's all about adding extra protection at the right places and perhaps using higher strength steel. Remember that Scorpio was designed from the beginning with export markets in mind.

Another reason for the above theory - Look what Tata has done for the Aria. The 4x4 variant is fully compliant of European crash safety regulations while 4x2 variant is NOT. Quoting from Team-BHP review of Tata Aria 4x2 -

Quote:
To save on cost and to make the vehicle lighter (thus, more fuel efficient too), some chassis members have been removed. The Aria 4x2 is unfortunately not Euro NCAP crash rating worthy, as its AWD sibling is.
So perhaps until G-NCAP tests the airbag/ABS variant of the Scorpio, we should go for "Innocent until proven Guilty" school of thought?
smartcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2016, 13:33   #446
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 7,550
Thanked: 6,594 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
So perhaps until G-NCAP tests the airbag/ABS variant of the Scorpio, we should go for "Innocent until proven Guilty" school of thought?
As with the Kwid, whatever the manufacturers may say, it would seem that the GNCAP-tested cars are bought from dealers. ie... they test the cars that anybody off the street would buy.

That is what is said in this thread (Understanding Euro NCAP safety tests).
Thad E Ginathom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2016, 13:55   #447
BHPian
 
heavenlybull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Delhi
Posts: 118
Thanked: 105 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
I agree, that is poor choice of words by Goenka.

However, one cannot rule out the possibility that higher variants of Scorpio has superior crash worthy body structure. On a body on frame chassis, it's all about adding extra protection at the right places and perhaps using higher strength steel. Remember that Scorpio was designed from the beginning with export markets in mind.
Yup, however at this stage that remains just a possibility or perhaps wishful thinking(?). Why would a company add 'extra protection' on higher variants when it means extra cost in manufacturing plus lower fuel economy due to added weight, for a country which doesn't have a crash test program - does not make business sense at all.

And if they can remove these 'added reinforcements' from the lower variants, they can also remove them from higher variants as well for India and save a lot of cash. We don't know that the export versions and the top version sold in India are the same structurally, as of now. Do they come from the same assembly line? I guess only an insider can answer these doubts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post

So perhaps until G-NCAP tests the airbag/ABS variant of the Scorpio, we should go for "Innocent until proven Guilty" school of thought?
At this point, their base variant has been tested and they have been found guilty.

PS: Not picking on Mahindra specifically; others like Maruti, Hyundai etc are equally guilty.
heavenlybull is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2016, 14:07   #448
Senior - BHPian
 
lurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tura
Posts: 1,275
Thanked: 549 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

saving grace here for Goenka is that so far no Indian car 'global NCAP' has tested in India so far has got any stars. All are in same boat only.

correct me if I am wrong !
lurker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2016, 15:17   #449
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 7,550
Thanked: 6,594 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
saving grace here for Goenka is that so far no Indian car 'global NCAP' has tested in India so far has got any stars. All are in same boat only.

correct me if I am wrong !
Well, I was smugly thinking that my Polo got three stars. Hope I'm not wrong!
Thad E Ginathom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2016, 15:51   #450
Senior - BHPian
 
lurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tura
Posts: 1,275
Thanked: 549 Times
Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Well, I was smugly thinking that my Polo got three stars. Hope I'm not wrong!
Polo of that particular year with great difficulty got a 3 star, later on we do not know if their manufacturing omitted those safety features again, due to reasons of profit. yes, they still have 2 airbags even on base model but we do not know what is happening under the skin.
lurker is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too... rajess_in The Indian Car Scene 644 10th June 2017 10:52
Chevrolet Sail scores 0 stars in Latin NCAP crash tests Aditya The International Automotive Scene 13 18th April 2016 11:07
Toyota Etios awarded 4-Stars in Global NCAP Crash Test technicalytuned The Indian Car Scene 48 13th February 2016 09:58


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 12:23.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks