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Old 4th May 2016, 08:44   #1
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Default Mahindra TUV300 to get more powerful engine

TUV300 to get NuvoSport engine! Speculations that there might be a price increase too. No dates on when it will be launched though.

Mahindra TUV300 to get a more powerful engine

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The company is now planning to launch a more powerful version of the TUV300 that will be powered by the 1.5-litre,3-cylinder, mHawk100 engine. This is the same engine that does duty in the Mahindra NuvoSport. As against the current model's 1.5-litre mHawk80 engine that produces 84bhp and 230Nm, the more powerful version churns out 99bhp and 240Nm. Similar to the current model, the more powerful version will continue to be offered with two transmission options - a 5-speed manual and a 5-speed AMT (Automated Manual Transmission). With more powerful engine, we expect the new version to be slightly pricier than the current model. The existing model is priced between Rs 7.40 lakh - Rs 9.60 lakh (ex-showroom, Delhi).
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Old 7th May 2016, 22:12   #2
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Default Re: Mahindra TUV300 : Official Review

Mahindra TUV300 mHawk100 to be launched in India on May 12, 2016

Mahindra will be launching the TUV300 with a more powerful mHawk100 engine on May 12, 2016. The more powerful TUV will most likely be available with a choice of manual as well as AMT options.

http://overdrive.in/news/mahindra-tu...n-may-12-2016/
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Old 7th May 2016, 22:52   #3
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Originally Posted by needforspeed88 View Post
Mahindra TUV300 mHawk100 to be launched in India on May 12, 2016

Mahindra will be launching the TUV300 with a more powerful mHawk100 engine on May 12, 2016. The more powerful TUV will most likely be available with a choice of manual as well as AMT options.

http://overdrive.in/news/mahindra-tu...n-may-12-2016/
The most important question is - are they going to offer any upgrade to struggling AMT customers?
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Old 9th May 2016, 12:39   #4
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Default Re: Mahindra TUV300 to get more powerful engine

Mahindra TUV300 to get more powerful engine. Posts moved to a new thread.
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Old 9th May 2016, 15:04   #5
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Default Re: Mahindra TUV300 to get more powerful engine

I really quite don't understand this move by Mahindra. I hope BHPians can shed some light on this....

1) When TUV300 was being developed, did they not know about the "future" launch of the Novosport with an engine with more power? I still don't see how the management team did not think about it back then. Was it a case of plain oversight or pure lack of drive/initiative in the management?

2) If they knew all along and decided to go ahead with the 84 BHP engine at launch, why now suddenly plug in the new engine. They should have stuck to their guns and not yielded to the public outcry.

3) Even with all the testing, as a newly developed product, the TUV300 has a few issues (some sorted, some amt issues not yet). So as a customer, can I now make the assumption that the "new" TUV300 has not been adequately/rigorously tested with the new engine?

As an engineer who deals with "quality" on a day to day basis, I am highly sceptical that Mahindra have done enough testing with the new engine. I sincerely hope they have.

But seriously, this move is hard to fathom.
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Old 9th May 2016, 15:45   #6
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Default Re: Mahindra TUV300 to get more powerful engine

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Originally Posted by nivatakavacha View Post
I really quite don't understand this move by Mahindra. I hope BHPians can shed some light on this....

1) When TUV300 was being developed, did they not know about the "future" launch of the Novosport with an engine with more power? I still don't see how the management team did not think about it back then. Was it a case of plain oversight or pure lack of drive/initiative in the management?

2) If they knew all along and decided to go ahead with the 84 BHP engine at launch, why now suddenly plug in the new engine. They should have stuck to their guns and not yielded to the public outcry.

3) Even with all the testing, as a newly developed product, the TUV300 has a few issues (some sorted, some amt issues not yet). So as a customer, can I now make the assumption that the "new" TUV300 has not been adequately/rigorously tested with the new engine?

As an engineer who deals with "quality" on a day to day basis, I am highly sceptical that Mahindra have done enough testing with the new engine. I sincerely hope they have.

But seriously, this move is hard to fathom.
All decisions before launching a new vehicles (or indeed any product) are at just estimates based on market research, target consumers, affordability etc etc.
I recently purchased a Scorpio and per the sales guy the number 1 feedback they had for TUV was for more power. Indeed I myself had the same feedback after my test drive.
So Mahindra is just listening and giving customers what they want. Why is this hard to fathom?

I do agree that Mahindra should have tested the new engine more.
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Old 9th May 2016, 16:13   #7
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Default Re: Mahindra TUV300 to get more powerful engine

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Originally Posted by timuseravan View Post
So Mahindra is just listening and giving customers what they want. Why is this hard to fathom?
Hi Timuseravan, thanks for your comment. Let me explain my point of view. This is based on my experience as a quality manager in the medical device product design and development domain.

During any product development life cycle, the first thing that literally gets signed is the marketing plan and the marketing specification (MRD), which is in turn, derived from the "Voice of the customer" which in the case of automobiles, will be the end user/prior state of art/predicate product. Not only during the initial phase, but also during multiple points in a product life cycle, KOL (Key opinion leaders) and other such feedback mechanisms (regular users) are in place to continuously refine the intended "user needs" and "user expectations" and if the product meets the "user satisfaction".

There is a very important phase of any product development which is called the "Design Validation" (which is different from Design Verification). Every industry has its own set of standards but this part never changes. Every product is validated to ensure that the ultimate intended purpose is met. In simple words, "Are we at the end of the day, with all this time/money investment making the right product which the customer wants?"

One can make the best (almost) defect free product, but if the end customer does not want it, it is a complete waste of money.

So even If I make the assumption that the development of the TUV300 from initial spec to final spec, took a period of 2 years, it still gives the management enough time to gauge the market response/expectations.

I do know enough about the QMS (Quality Management System) standards of the automotive industry, so I don't see how they could have missed this.

That is hard to fathom for me as an engineer who specializes in product design and development.

Thanks!

Last edited by nivatakavacha : 9th May 2016 at 16:20. Reason: correction, more info
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Old 9th May 2016, 17:24   #8
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Default Re: Mahindra TUV300 to get more powerful engine

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Originally Posted by nivatakavacha View Post
Every product is validated to ensure that the ultimate intended purpose is met. In simple words, "Are we at the end of the day, with all this time/money investment making the right product which the customer wants?"

One can make the best (almost) defect free product, but if the end customer does not want it, it is a complete waste of money.

You are missing the time to deliver aspect.
Milk while the market exists, because tomorrow competition can raise the ante (same/less price but higher tech spec).

So perhaps the lower power engine + transmission was deliverable earlier. And Mahindra was confident that a sufficient portion of the target audience WILL get swayed even with lower power engine.

But yeah, you are right about getting the stuff right (or wrong in this case).
When you market a product as tough/macho/masculine it is a disaster/crime to launch an under-powered vehicle.
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Old 9th May 2016, 22:02   #9
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Default Re: Mahindra TUV300 to get more powerful engine

For a vehicle which costs a million rupees on road Bangalore, with intense competition in the Indian market, weighing 1.6 tons, to mate it to a puny 84 bhp engine was a massive goof up and thankfully Mahindra have realized it at least now. I want to make one thing very clear that more power is not only necessary for comfortable cruising on expressways but on two lane highways where majority of the accidents happen while overtaking, a 1.6 ton vehicle with 84 horses can be extremely tricky to overtake. Even the Volvo buses are cruising over 100 kph and i always say more power actually helps you to get out of tricky situations especially overtaking.

TUV300 has a lot going for it in terms of ruggedness, rough road tackling ability, space and commanding driving position. Mahindra have to realize that they may just kill a decent product by trying to be too cute with their engine strategy. A 100bhp engine is a bare minimum for a vehicle in this class, with this kind of kerb weight and the price it commands.

Last edited by needforspeed88 : 9th May 2016 at 22:09.
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Old 10th May 2016, 01:02   #10
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Default Re: Mahindra TUV300 to get more powerful engine

In all of the 2 years it took them to develop, validate, engineer and verify the product, did nobody from the product / R&D / Marketing team pick up a brochure of a certain Mahindra Quanto? Quanto had this 100Ps mCR100 engine plonked inside its engine bay all along! And if I am not wrong, it has been around since 2013 (2+ years prior to TUV launch).

Wouldn't it have reduced R&D costs to just use the same engine instead of engineering and testing an all new 85Ps one? Especially when both the cars weigh almost the same and compete in almost the exact same segment (Sub 4 meter, sub 1.5l Diesel 7 seaters). Or did Mahindra's market research clearly show them that Quanto actually has 15 more horses than it needed and all they wanted to do was to correct it?
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Old 10th May 2016, 02:01   #11
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Default Re: Mahindra TUV300 to get more powerful engine

Pardon me for the noob question.

If I understand correctly, the engine is the same but the power / torque rating is different. Is this achieved by using a different turbo or a different ECU map?

If it is just through a ECU map, I have the following questions.
  • How will Mahindra justify in charging more for a ECU remap, that too an existing one used in the Nuvosport
  • Will Mahindra give provision for existing customers to remap the ECU with the new map? For free or a nominal charge?
If hardware is involved, my question is totally invalid
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Old 10th May 2016, 09:12   #12
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Default Re: Mahindra TUV300 to get more powerful engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by nivatakavacha View Post
Hi Timuseravan, thanks for your comment. Let me explain my point of view. This is based on my experience as a quality manager in the medical device product design and development domain.

During any product development life cycle, the first thing that literally gets signed is the marketing plan and the marketing specification (MRD), which is in turn, derived from the "Voice of the customer" which in the case of automobiles, will be the end user/prior state of art/predicate product. Not only during the initial phase, but also during multiple points in a product life cycle, KOL (Key opinion leaders) and other such feedback mechanisms (regular users) are in place to continuously refine the intended "user needs" and "user expectations" and if the product meets the "user satisfaction".

There is a very important phase of any product development which is called the "Design Validation" (which is different from Design Verification). Every industry has its own set of standards but this part never changes. Every product is validated to ensure that the ultimate intended purpose is met. In simple words, "Are we at the end of the day, with all this time/money investment making the right product which the customer wants?"

One can make the best (almost) defect free product, but if the end customer does not want it, it is a complete waste of money.

So even If I make the assumption that the development of the TUV300 from initial spec to final spec, took a period of 2 years, it still gives the management enough time to gauge the market response/expectations.

I do know enough about the QMS (Quality Management System) standards of the automotive industry, so I don't see how they could have missed this.

That is hard to fathom for me as an engineer who specializes in product design and development.

Thanks!
I am not aware of product cycles in medical device industry but based on my experience, there is no way a new automotive product is launched in 2 years from conceptualization to release. (I work in the biggest cad company in the world with majority of auto industry as our customers). It is more like 4-5 years.
The following is purely my speculation: In 2011-2012, when the TUV conceptualization must have taken place, oil was hitting new peaks and mileage was the key driver. Secondly no one in the auto industry predicted that more expensive and powerful vehicles would sell so well (Eg: i20/Creta/Baleno etc).
So at that time Mahindra must have decided that they wanted a cheaper vehicles with good mileage and hence the smaller engine. The smaller engine needs to be able to pull the vehicle and so the engine was tweaked for low end torque.
Now onto 2014-2015 when oil is crashing and people don't mind spending more. They also get the feedback from everyone that the car needs a more powerful engine and their market research also suggests that it will sell well. I am also guessing they must have started testing the engine last year itself and are just now launching it.

Despite best research, it is very difficult to predict the market even a couple of years in future. Look at Maruti: if they had gauged the market accurately, they would never have kept such low production for Baleno.
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Old 10th May 2016, 12:54   #13
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Default Re: Mahindra TUV300 to get more powerful engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigkey View Post
Pardon me for the noob question.

If I understand correctly, the engine is the same but the power / torque rating is different. Is this achieved by using a different turbo or a different ECU map?

If it is just through a ECU map, I have the following questions.
  • How will Mahindra justify in charging more for a ECU remap, that too an existing one used in the Nuvosport
  • Will Mahindra give provision for existing customers to remap the ECU with the new map? For free or a nominal charge?
If hardware is involved, my question is totally invalid
No one has to justify anything here, it is not a govt enterprise providing answers to the elected legislature (mainly opposition) and the public ...
If more people flock to the showrooms and book the vehicle then they are doing all the right thing, because it will means that the public is willing to pay a higher price for "ECU remap" [though I am not sure if things are that simple technically].

Last edited by alpha1 : 10th May 2016 at 12:55.
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Old 10th May 2016, 15:27   #14
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Default Re: Mahindra TUV300 to get more powerful engine

Beyond a point, all this discussion around BHP & Nm is of little meaning. What matters in the real world is overall vehicle drive train performance on aspects of acceleration, in-gear/ roll-on acceleration/ fuel efficiency/ preventive maintenance cost/ accident repair costs. Unfortunately, there is no definitive statistic around the same.
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Old 10th May 2016, 17:19   #15
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Default Re: Mahindra TUV300 to get more powerful engine

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No one has to justify anything here, it is not a govt enterprise providing answers to the elected legislature (mainly opposition) and the public
Sir, I am sure you are not naive enough to believe that I was telling about a literal justification. This was just like we say "How is Honda going to justify the premium for Mobilio over Ertiga" or "Hyundai has justified the premium over Duster by giving some excellent quality and feature set in the Creta"

I know this is going The customer has to feel that the additional price is justified for him / her to go for the product. At least, I fall in that category

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
If more people flock to the showrooms and book the vehicle then they are doing all the right thing, because it will means that the public is willing to pay a higher price for "ECU remap" [though I am not sure if things are that simple technically].
Even I am not sure if things are that simple technically. Experts can definitely throw some light and help noobs like me.
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