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Old 16th May 2016, 11:55   #16
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Excellent move. They could have also considered the Isuzu D max 4wds since they are less electronic than the fortuners. Both Toyota and Isuzu are well proven work horses. If the defence sector demands well proven SUVS this could open opportunities for SUVs such as the proven Hilux 4wd.

Last edited by rakesh_r : 16th May 2016 at 12:03.
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Old 16th May 2016, 12:02   #17
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought some smart officers have managed to wrangle a new set of wheels for their enjoyment. However, when I read the link to the article in India Today, I was very happy to know that my scepticism was ill founded. I'm glad that our troops are finally getting modern vehicles to help them perform their duties.

I'm not sure how long these vehicles will last in the rugged terrain but I hope that this is a successful experiment and more such modern equipment makes its way into the hands of our troops so that they feel that the nation is recognizing their commitment and sacrifice.
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Old 16th May 2016, 12:04   #18
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

If only we could have saved 10-15 lakhs each by giving Ecosports/Dusters/Mobilios to politicians instead of Fortuners, we could have easily given our brave soldiers many more such vehicles. Anyway, a good move nonetheless.

We already see a lot of Bhutanese forces in iSuzus and it was time we stepped up. The Himalayan terrain definitely needs rugged vehicles, and hopefully this is just the beginning of a new precedent.

Last edited by TD_GHY : 16th May 2016 at 12:05.
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Old 16th May 2016, 12:11   #19
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

The armed forces getting what they deserve: A truly rugged, reliable 4x4 which is comfortable. The Gypsy and Mahindra SUVs were lacking in creature comforts for the hostile conditions they work in.

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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
I'm not sure how long these vehicles will last in the rugged terrain
The Fortuner is built for abuse. It'll still have some usable life when they dispose the car. Maintenance is key: The big SUVs will be more expensive to maintain than a Gypsy/Jeep.

Think of this: When the drivers have some comfort, they'll drive better.

I'm sure the Endeavour/ISUZU D-Max will be equally up to the task.
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Old 16th May 2016, 12:18   #20
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Default Re: Ford Endeavours and Toyota Fortuners for troops along Indo-China border

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Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
I am wondering though, aren't the interiors too cramped in these luxury SUVs for the fully kitted troops? Or are these just for the officers?
As mentioned in today's TOI, these are for the troops and officers only for operational tasks. Here is the link -
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/52280168.cms

An excerpt from the link -

Quote:
The Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) headquarters here has issued a directive that the troopers and officers will use these vehicles only for operational tasks to prevent their misuse.
ITBP director general Krishna Chaudhary said while the force has several types of four-wheelers, including those with 4x4 drive facility for high-altitude driving at its border locations, SUV platforms, which are powered by diesel-run heavy-duty engines were required for quick movement in these mountainous areas.
"We were looking for some good high-power vehicles at those heights where regular vehicles are not as adept as an SUV. The ministry of home affairs sometime back approved our proposal and we purchased four such four-wheelers in the first batch.
"I can tell you that none of the senior officers in the force including me have such smart and powerful vehicles for their movement as compared to what our men have now," he said.

Last edited by BlackPearl : 16th May 2016 at 12:20.
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Old 16th May 2016, 12:30   #21
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Instead of Fortuner or Endy in my view Mahindra Thar 4X4 (Especially the soft top ones) or a Maruti Gypsy is the best vehicle for our BSF. We can have each and every person on a Thar instead of just buying 4 SUVs. This is not a good move at all.

Last edited by GTO : 17th May 2016 at 11:13. Reason: Typo
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Old 16th May 2016, 12:45   #22
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Excited reading this news, could be a good test bed for the Endeavour. Not sure why the endeavour is complex to troubleshoot. With good training, using the OBD scanner they can identify issues related to the electronics. E.g:- ECU etc.

The other mechanical parts (suspension, engine, gearbox) would need equal efforts to fix be it Toyota or Ford. Or is it different ? Ford has been supplying their F350 series truck to the US military so assuming Ford's are reliable easier to fix/troubleshoot. Looks like the previous gen Endeavour is already used by Singapore army.

It looks like new Endevour is ahead of the current gen Fortuner and might be a good vehicle for the army considering the Terrain Management system and the ability to take abuse and great suspension + braking abilities.

Last edited by sunishsamuel : 16th May 2016 at 13:01.
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Old 16th May 2016, 15:31   #23
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Definitely a welcome move. Hopefully the misuse part is actually kept in check. Happened to see a tavera with a "POLICE" board being used by a family in Mahabaleshwar and also in Pune. Sightseeing??

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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Reliability and durability is the deal breaker here!
Durability maybe yes, but arent we already using SUMOs/SPACIOs in the forces? They too are from TATA and I am sure TATA would have been more than happy to comply and better the storme if being given to the forces. Likewise for the Mahindra (XUV) too.
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Old 16th May 2016, 15:40   #24
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

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Originally Posted by sajo View Post
I am sure the new Endy must be first one to be inducted into armed forces anywhere in the world!
I agree, looking at the off-roading abilities of these two SUVs - Fortuner & Endeavour are the best of the 4x4 SUVs available today in India. This is a move in the right direction.

However, if you look at International market, there are other vehicles which are more robust in build, technologically advanced with superior abilities available for this purpose. Listed below are few of the vehicles that are currently used by troops in many countries:
  • Land Rover Defender
  • GMC – Suburban
  • Toyota – Land Cruiser
  • Ford F-150
  • Toyota Tacoma
  • Mercedes Benz G-Class
  • Hummer H1
  • RAM 1500/2500
  • Jeep Wrangler etc.

Since both Fortuner and Endeavour are based on Pick-up truck platforms, they would be abuse friendly & reliable.

Toyota Fortuner, also known as SW4 is an entry level SUV built on the Toyota Hilux pick up (known for its ruggedness and durability) based platform. Fortuner is not offered in Japan, Europe, North America or China. For the medium pick-up based SUV segment in those markets, Toyota offers the Hilux Surf (Japan), 4Runner (North America) and Land Cruiser Prado (Europe, Australasia and China). However, in some Central American countries (Panama for example), Toyota offers the Fortuner alongside the 4Runner and Land Cruiser Prado.

Ford Endeavour (known as ‘Ford Everest’ internationally – sold in Australia, Philippines, Malaysia etc) is a five door SUV variant of the Ford Ranger Pick-up truck. Ford Ranger was actually a rebadged version of Mazda’s B Series Pick-up Truck when it was initially launched in 1998. Mazda's partnership with Ford resulted in both companies selling this vehicle under different names; Ford called its version Ford Courier, and later the Ford Ranger. Ford Everest / Endeavour launched in 2015, was designed in Australia but built in Thailand.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Everest
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Old 16th May 2016, 16:02   #25
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

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Originally Posted by centaur View Post
Durability maybe yes, but arent we already using SUMOs/SPACIOs in the forces? They too are from TATA and I am sure TATA would have been more than happy to comply and better the storme if being given to the forces. Likewise for the Mahindra (XUV) too.
Sumo and Spacio are simple vehicles, unlike the Storme which has complicated electronics which aren't very reliable. The Fortuner/Endy have a proven reliability record which the storme doesn't. Most importantly the drivability of the fortuner is terrific with nearly 0 turbo lag. The varicor400 has a noticeable turbo lag should get worse in the hills. The XUV with its monocoque construction can never match the abuse a ladder on frame chassis vehicle can take. I feel only the Scorpio is a worthy contender from the Indian manufacturers, The S4+ 4wd should fit the bill perfectly.
Nevertheless, the Fortuner is the perfect fit here. I really hope they add more Fortuners for the BSF to use.

Last edited by Aditya : 17th May 2016 at 07:10. Reason: Acronym
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Old 16th May 2016, 16:04   #26
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

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Originally Posted by centaur View Post
Definitely a welcome move. Hopefully the misuse part is actually kept in check. Happened to see a tavera with a "POLICE" board being used by a family in Mahabaleshwar and also in Pune. Sightseeing??



Durability maybe yes, but arent we already using SUMOs/SPACIOs in the forces? They too are from TATA and I am sure TATA would have been more than happy to comply and better the storme if being given to the forces. Likewise for the Mahindra (XUV) too.
Those are used for routine transport in relatively undemanding conditions where a workshop is on hand to refit the pieces that fell off!
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Old 16th May 2016, 16:09   #27
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations


I am in public procurement. And I can figure out EXACTLY why fortuners have been bought. Longevity, robustness etc are all secondary. This is someone's whim being satisfied.
I am glad, though, that by extension, the jawans have got a good vehicle. I do hope it gets the used for the stated purpose it has been bought for.
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Old 16th May 2016, 16:15   #28
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

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Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93 View Post
The XUV with its monocoque construction can never match the abuse a ladder on frame chassis vehicle can take.
Thats right. The XUV loses out on this front big time.
The Xenon too would have been a worthy contended but reliability puts that one too in the back burner.
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Old 16th May 2016, 17:14   #29
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Er, it's right there, bud. The words between the 3rd and 4th full-stop.
Ah, I missed that, I saw the part that said Longevity and Robustness were secondary and I was wondering what was the real reason.

But seriously, is it possible for this purchase to go through just to satisfy someone's WHIM? I mean, doesn't a purchase like this have to be approved at multiple levels and by a committee rather than by an individual?

Based on what we read in the press, you'd think that the purchase would be a long drawn process, involving drawing up a detailed requirement document, shortlisting multiple vendors in this space, conducting multiple field trials, and only after the vehicles meet all the defined requirements, then moving onto commercial negotiations.

Can all these steps be bypassed to satisfy someone's whim?
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Old 16th May 2016, 17:54   #30
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post

But seriously, is it possible for this purchase to go through just to satisfy someone's WHIM? I mean, doesn't a purchase like this have to be approved at multiple levels and by a committee rather than by an individual?
Not sure about the armed forces, but ministers, speakers YES. They do. The speaker of Assam's legislative Assembly has 3 cars for his post allotted; all new cars recently purchased and all 15L+. One of them is proudly used by his daughter-in-law. And you'd think that the car he actually uses will lie idle when he goes to Delhi (since they don't carry their cars along), but no. His car ran for 6000km while he was in Delhi and he claimed diesel reimbursement by showing a mileage of 2kmpl for an Innova

So, don't find Mayank's statement surprising although I am happy with ITBP's decision.
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