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Old 17th May 2016, 02:49   #31
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Though this is a great news & our jawans deserve something of this calibre, I personally would have looked at the Storme from a comfort perspective. The Fortuner may have top notch reliability, but then a good drive on those demanding geography will be a test of their endurance. A storme would be much more comfortable at half the price.
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Old 17th May 2016, 11:16   #32
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Vehicles used by armed forces need to have excellent reliability first, fast field repairs second and comfort last. That is why most vehicles used by armed forces have much tougher specifications than civilian vehicles.

Both Toyota Fortuner and Ford Endeavor (Everest) have proven reliability, which unfortunately our own Indian designed vehicles lack.

Toyota Landcruiser series 70 are used both in Australia and South Africa for troop movements, and are available with 4L+ non turbo diesels for excellent low end torque.
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Old 17th May 2016, 11:21   #33
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

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Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
Army green color with bigger wheels, proper winch, custom bumpers (front and back). It would certainly look the part in addition to going the distance.
Imagine our brave Army in this. Just the sight would make our enemies run away



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I am wondering though, aren't the interiors too cramped in these luxury SUVs for the fully kitted troops?
Fortuner has good cabin space.

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Originally Posted by centaur View Post
Durability maybe yes, but arent we already using SUMOs/SPACIOs in the forces? They too are from TATA and I am sure TATA would have been more than happy to comply and better the storme if being given to the forces.
The Sumo is perhaps the most reliable Tata there is. Over the years, Tata has ironed all the niggles out. It's got near Toyota-like reliability today.

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
I personally would have looked at the Storme from a comfort perspective. The Fortuner may have top notch reliability, but then a good drive on those demanding geography will be a test of their endurance.
The Storme is nowhere as good an offroader as the Fortuner, so there's no point considering it. The Fortuner is also infinitely more reliable - this is key when your life depends on the vehicle's functioning!
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Old 17th May 2016, 11:42   #34
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

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Imagine our brave Army in this. Just the sight would make our enemies run away


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Fortuner has good cabin space.
It has I agree, for civilian purposes. But I doubt it would be able to carry more than 4 fully kitted personnel along with other provisions.

One indirect benefit to the people could be getting one of these through auctions 10 years later and building them up . Good times for 4x4 community ahead, eh?
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Old 17th May 2016, 13:47   #35
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Great move ! I hope more of them are in store for our Army.

Looking at the cars though, I don't see them built for a specific purpose as of now. There is no winch, no small follow-me lamps, no terrain matching color or even a rack on the roof.

Anyone who can shed some light on this ?
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Old 17th May 2016, 14:02   #36
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

At high altitudes in winter the diesel can freeze or turn into a semi solid gel. One problem i can see in the Fortuner ( not sure about the Endevour ) is that it has a plastic fuel tank.
Normally to get out of this situation i have seen drivers lighting a fire underneath the fuel tank.
But that cannot be done here because of the plastic tank.
I guess they will have to add special additives to the diesel.
A petrol 4Wd is actually ideal for these situations.
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Old 17th May 2016, 16:05   #37
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

That's quite a remarkable move the border forces!!

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Originally Posted by JediKnight View Post
At high altitudes in winter the diesel can freeze or turn into a semi solid gel. One problem i can see in the Fortuner ( not sure about the Endevour ) is that it has a plastic fuel tank.
Normally to get out of this situation i have seen drivers lighting a fire underneath the fuel tank.
But that cannot be done here because of the plastic tank.
I guess they will have to add special additives to the diesel.
A petrol 4Wd is actually ideal for these situations.
I think are drivers may be trained for exactly these situations.

Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations-156407.jpg

I would definitely want to see the addition of this armored beast some day.

Last edited by Aditya : 18th May 2016 at 05:37. Reason: Resizing image
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Old 17th May 2016, 16:18   #38
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

while we are at it, something like this also will only do good to the forces. Still cheaper than the G63 6*6 by approx $144,xxx
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Last edited by centaur : 17th May 2016 at 16:22.
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Old 17th May 2016, 16:32   #39
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

This is where China is so far ahead of us. Our forces tend to prefer imported equipment, whereas China is focused & driven to develop all the equipment in-house, which also has the effect of helping their military exports & commercial industry too.

A well funded development program will help our Tatas, Mahindras develop world class equipment.

Our pvt industry has already proven itself with by making missiles, submarines, satellites etc, and Ashok Leyland has done exceptionally well in custom vehicle development projects for the same armed forces.

Hope INDEG, the indigenous development of equipment program of Govt, is not getting sidelined.
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Old 17th May 2016, 17:49   #40
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Great news! Our forces deserve the best. I strongly believe that for someone to do great in their job it is necessary to give them the right tools/props. Efficiency is directly proportional to the quality of equipment being provided to the troops.

For long I have been hearing about Mahindra Axe, our very own Hummer. This was especially developed for the Forces. I haven't seen a single one till now. Is it being made/sold? Who is using it?
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Old 17th May 2016, 19:04   #41
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

The government should probably place a bulk order for Hilux, maybe even the old gen (current Innova). They would get a proven, indestructible vehicle at an attractive price point. And yes, our men need them in hundreds, not 4. But a good beginning is a job half done.
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Old 18th May 2016, 10:30   #42
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

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This is where China is so far ahead of us. Our forces tend to prefer imported equipment, whereas China is focused & driven to develop all the equipment in-house,
Are you sure Chinese use Chinese stuff?
That too for realibility reasons ?
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Old 18th May 2016, 10:37   #43
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

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Are you sure Chinese use Chinese stuff?
That too for realibility reasons ?
Chinese forces use as much 'Make In China' as possible, to promote... Make in China. Not for reliability, but self-reliance instead of forever depending on Russia. We had the same goals.. Arjun, Tejas.. but our armed forces tend to prefer imports.

Award development contracts at high prices to LOCAL manufacturers instead of importing, let them do technology tie-ups & deliver. Our pvt sector is quite mature now.
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:00   #44
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

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Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
Chinese forces use as much 'Make In China' as possible, to promote... Make in China. Not for reliability, but self-reliance instead of forever depending on Russia. We had the same goals.. Arjun, Tejas.. but our armed forces tend to prefer imports.

Award development contracts at high prices to LOCAL manufacturers instead of importing, let them do technology tie-ups & deliver. Our pvt sector is quite mature now.
I think Tejas is enroute, and obsolete already.
The Arjun is 50% or thereabouts imported, which is why its facing issues.
The chinese forces use extremely reliable products. That reliability is not to be confused as equivalent to the diwali lights we buy and use.
The axe got a chance, and hit its own foot with, er, itself.

And its sort of a given with our manufacturers, that one should NEVER buy their V1 products. And I don't think the armed forces can wait around.

Our automotive private sector is not interested in the armed forces as a major client, since they either are not able to clear the qualifying criteria, or it doesn't make sense of scale to them to make a product specifically for them.
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:34   #45
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

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Our automotive private sector is not interested in the armed forces as a major client, since they either are not able to clear the qualifying criteria, or it doesn't make sense of scale to them to make a product specifically for them.
Pure nonsense, defense sector of ALL countries give big development orders to their own country companies, thats how you grow your manufacturing prowess!

China used to import heavily from Russia & other countries, but it used each import order to copy & improve its own manufacturing prowess. Our armed forces show no interest in this because they want to get their hands on the latest & greatest equipment at whatever cost of import.

Ashok Leyland, Mahindra, Tatas, Bharat Benzh have already got or executed many big orders for Armed forces vehicles or mounts.

L&T / Godrej were given orders for Prithvi & Brahmos missiles, they delivered spectacularly well. Same with submarines & coast guard boats. However, now armed forces procurement division wants to import missiles from Israel!

Unless Govt demands that armed forces, DRDO & private sector collaborate to develop good equipment IN India, we are never going to ever catch up with China.
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