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Old 18th May 2016, 12:15   #46
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

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Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
Pure nonsense, defense sector of ALL countries give big development orders to their own country companies, thats how you grow your manufacturing prowess!

-----SNIP--------

Unless Govt demands that armed forces, DRDO & private sector collaborate to develop good equipment IN India, we are never going to ever catch up with China.
What are you going on about?
The government is not demanding collaborations, the private players are not able to make a car satisfying the criteria as matched by the Fortuner. So the armed forces are supposed to dig out the required equipment from mohanjodaro or someplace?

I think the SUV experts here can look the attached Specs and tell us which were, or were not met. I believe this is from the original specs required itself.
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File Type: pdf 200004170354_opt_opt.pdf (710.3 KB, 230 views)
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Old 18th May 2016, 12:27   #47
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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
What are you going on about?

The government is not demanding collaborations, the private players are not able to make a car satisfying the criteria as matched by the Fortuner. So the armed forces are supposed to dig out the required equipment from mohanjodaro or someplace?

The Govt must put out requirements & give generous development orders which covers a good part of R&D, no local pvt manufacturer will turn it down.

I know L&T lost crores in building initial lot of submarines & coastal speedboats only to find no new orders were being given.

We need a Govt to tell armed forces only 50% of capital budget will go to imports, and half of that should be by local license manufacturing. This is the only way to reduce dependence on imports in the long run.
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Old 18th May 2016, 12:59   #48
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
What are you going on about?
The government is not demanding collaborations, the private players are not able to make a car satisfying the criteria as matched by the Fortuner. So the armed forces are supposed to dig out the required equipment from mohanjodaro or someplace?

I think the SUV experts here can look the attached Specs and tell us which were, or were not met. I believe this is from the original specs required itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
The Govt must put out requirements & give generous development orders which covers a good part of R&D, no local pvt manufacturer will turn it down.

I know L&T lost crores in building initial lot of submarines & coastal speedboats only to find no new orders were being given.

We need a Govt to tell armed forces only 50% of capital budget will go to imports, and half of that should be by local license manufacturing. This is the only way to reduce dependence on imports in the long run.
The defense industry is considered non-cyclical and hence most manufacturing and primary sector companies are very much interested in the defense business. The division I used to worked for in L&T invested quite heavily for defense projects, created dedicated divisions and product line for the sector during the early 2000s. Returns were slow to come by, but I think now they are doing good

But there are problems with both sides. You have to deal with the paperwork - or the layers of bureaucracy,and the dillydallying - but this seems to be the case across the world. The amount of paperwork and time taken to get one component approved would test the patience of any management!! (L&T, a conglomerate was competing with a much much smaller (rather tiny) manufacturer from Ludhiana!!)

And Indian companies with years of neglect and lethargy in the R&D sector is not able to up the speeds when the situation demands - with the armed forces left with no other option but to look outside
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Old 18th May 2016, 15:51   #49
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Finally, money well utilized in saving the country and army at that altitude definitely need better vehicles. Cheers to all the people involved in making it happen.
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Old 18th May 2016, 16:39   #50
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Hi,

Maybe a little OT and nitpicky, but would just like to point out (after seeing a few posts mentioning "Army") that the ITBP and Indian Army are 2 separate entities. ITBP is a Central Armed Police Force (the others being BSF, CRPF, CISF and SSB), while the Army is a branch of the Indian Armed Forces.

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 22nd May 2016, 04:08   #51
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

These brave men and women certainly deserve these vehicles more than our corrupt politicians. Deployment was rather too quick, they don't have any special equipments like winch, camo etc and only 2 vehicles each makes me think that this is only a test deployment to see the reliability of Fortuner & Endeavour, before giving bulk orders.
Let's not forget that life of these soldiers depend on the reliability of these vehicles, I would any day prefer a "phoren" but reliable Fortuner over a "swadesi" yet unreliable Safari for them. Until our own manufacturers can come up with products (cars, aircraft, missiles etc) that are reliable, its better to use imports and not put the lives of these brave men & women in danger.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 08:40   #52
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

have the Toyota Pickup-trucks used by ISIS as technicals for rapid movement and transport influenced this decision somewhat. Some pickups have mounted canons and machine guns which give huge advantage in mobility as columns of these toyota technicals converted into Sigint radio base, troop carriers, & machine gun cover to troops cover ground and distances far quicker compared to the lumbering trucks and track mounted vehicles the conventional armies of the world use.

For armies in middle east that do not have the sheer numbers of heavy artillery to move around which are needed to blow out these light technicals from their holding points. These light vehicles reach a point first and then hold territory or take over territory more effectively in those conditions. In mountainous terrain it is quite difficult to employ heavy artillery in numbers anyways for any army so speed is key maybe depending on tactics involved. So they are maybe testing these light 'technicals' out to see what use they can be put to.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 12:03   #53
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
What are you going on about?
The government is not demanding collaborations, the private players are not able to make a car satisfying the criteria as matched by the Fortuner. So the armed forces are supposed to dig out the required equipment from mohanjodaro or someplace?

I think the SUV experts here can look the attached Specs and tell us which were, or were not met. I believe this is from the original specs required itself.
+1 to what mayankk said. You cannot count what happened with submarines to what happened with 4 wheel vehicles. Army procurement has been an area which the govt needs to deal with as most of the prices are inflated to deal with middlemen and bribing officials. This has been the norm which is ridiculous and needs to be dealt with.

No wonder the rafale deal is taking ages to get completed.

We cannot wait for indian manufacturers to make a vehicle which may take 3-5 years when we have a on the shelf vehicle available which is proven and tested by the afghans and the current idealogical war on in iraq. Hilux is a good platform and till our guys pull up their socks let us buy it.

For folks saying indian manufacturer: We still buying Maruti Gypsy. Have you ever seen any updates done for this vehicle? Age old platform with no mods is our best buy or the best we can show?

Thanks but time to check out something else.

Maddy
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Old 23rd May 2016, 12:47   #54
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Default Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude ope...

I really don't think that the defence forces need to prove or certify their patriotism by buying a car from an Indian manufacturer. If armies all over the globe are using hilux/fortuners then there is a reason behind it. Indian manufacturers aren't new to making cars either but let's face it they have a long way to go in matching the R&D, reliability and durability of the japs. Not everyone can be Hyundai.

Scorpio and Safari have been on sale for the last 10+ years. Yes they have evolved over time but not in a way that they can beat the segment leader. Same with the xuv/aria. We should be happy that the ministry of defense is actually trying to bring upon a change from the gypsy's and the mm540's. Let's not forget the fact that the best vehicle used by the army was always a jonga jeep (Nissan patrol).

Asit

Last edited by asit.kulkarni93 : 23rd May 2016 at 12:50.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 13:10   #55
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Both these SUVs are mighty capable in their own rights and if there's someone who ought to be deserving the supereme reliability offered by these vehicles in such harsh conditions, it is the Armed Forces. If these vehicles are being able to be used as-it-is in such terrains, the Defence definitely have taken the right decision to ply these into their contingents.

A friend has recently taken his Fortuner to the Everest Base Camp. It took four people from India to EBC and beyond without breaking a sweat. The Forces are better off utilising its abilities to the maximum possible extent.

It's a great move.
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Old 3rd August 2016, 11:27   #56
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Some pictures uploaded on twitter by ITBP official handle :
Source: https://twitter.com/ITBP_official/st...08097526685700
Attached Thumbnails
Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations-itbpfotrunner1.jpg  

Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations-itbpfotrunner2.jpg  

Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations-itbpfotrunner3.jpg  

Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations-itbpfotrunner4.jpg  

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Old 3rd August 2016, 11:57   #57
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

These photos look good for publicity and appear far from practicality , I feel they should have bought some pickup trucks instead like Hilux as they could have avoided customs. Or even Scorpio getaway with 4x4 unless senior guys wanted something for self-use and are now trying to justify purchases.

Sorry but these photos of 6 soldiers standing on Fortuner foot boards holding plastic rails looks straight from an old Hindi movie - we all know how practical it will be to actually move for 100 metres and even in movies they will paint it differently in green/brown - stock white Fortuner and soldiers aiming machine guns with their hands resting on an open door

Perhaps they can look in future at newer Isuzu V Cross They can easily use the rear deck for multiple usages from seats to mounting guns and carrying other stuff.
Attached Thumbnails
Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations-screen-shot-20160803-12.04.45-pm.png  

Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations-screen-shot-20160803-12.06.47-pm.png  


Last edited by Turbanator : 3rd August 2016 at 12:12.
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Old 3rd August 2016, 17:38   #58
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetLife View Post
Some pictures uploaded on twitter by ITBP official
One liner:
Why do we have a chandigarh registered private vehicle being used by ITBP ?? Why not the army registered version?
Looks like a pic off a movie set rather than a real ITBP shot!
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Old 3rd August 2016, 17:47   #59
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

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Why do we have a chandigarh registered private vehicle being used by ITBP
I think ITBP has their regional office at Chandigarh and they have been given GA series which is for Government vehicles, earlier it used to be G but looks they have run out of numbers so GA must be newer.
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Old 5th August 2016, 13:05   #60
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Default Re: Border Forces purchase Toyota Fortuner & Ford Endeavour for high altitude operations

That's right, this is a Government number and CH01GA is the current official series in which Government procured vehicles are registered in.

Nice to see some use coming from these Government vehicles rather than them spewing smoke or on a pilot car asking people to jump off the road because some VIP is coming behind us at breakneck speeds in the opposite lane while we scamper at 50kph.
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