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Old 29th May 2016, 23:48   #181
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http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/...cle8647913.ece

Contrary to popular perception that air pollution is going up in the State, two of the major air pollution parameters nitrogen dioxide from vehicle emissions and sulphur dioxide from industrial emissions were well within the permissible limits in the State during the past five years.

Looks like Air Pollution in Kerala data seems to show NGT acted in haste..

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Originally Posted by Captain Haddock View Post
Terms like drunkards, clowns, idiots may not be the best words to criticise the tribunal.

The ruling can be debated on but the credibility of the tribunal cannot be criticised, especially using Un parliamentary language.

It is up to the honourable moderators to decide if such posts deserve to be displayed to a national audience .

The Government will file an appeal and the matter will be sub judice, I wouldn't comment more on this thread.
Captain, just take it as frustrations of people who are going to be affected by the ban. Even bigger forums like twitter or fb posts more unparliamentary stuff but its a persons' opinion and we have freedom of press to state our views. Unlike my earlier post which was actually irate, I am just saying no one here actually means to degrade the NGT. But like this article proves,

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/...cle8647913.ece

NGT has probably taken an action in haste and without proper data. This is exactly like the EPF rules in this budget which caused issues in Karnataka and had to be backtracked are similar instances of the common man venting out their frustrations.

Last edited by benbsb29 : 30th May 2016 at 03:47. Reason: Merged back-to-back posts.
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Old 30th May 2016, 00:43   #182
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

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Originally Posted by Captain Haddock View Post
I agree with most of your views here. There are hundreds of litigations being filled in front of the judiciary. The ones which make no sense are thrown out prima facia. If the NGT takes a decision, it is to respected till a court of law repels it.

I also have reservations about the practical Implementation of the order.

There has been instances where judges in lower courts have issued death sentences and higher courts have let the accused free, even judges of the higher courts shall under no circumstances criticize the lower court judges despite changing the verdict.

In other earlier posts by certain members I saw very strong words being used to describe the NGT.

Since Team Bhp is a nationally recognized forum, I request moderators to remove posts which use Un parliamentary language to criticize the judiciary.
There is no harm in calling a retarded brainless idiot or a drunkard by the same name . The NGT is just a that. Bunch of useless brainless idiots.

The NGT or even the Supreme doesn't have the right to ban anything. That is the job of the legislature and the Parliament.

Second , the NGT is not the judiciary .

The NGT shouldn't interfere in matters where there is rule of law already established.

I don't understand why the judiciary should be above criticism .The judges are also humans bound to make mistakes . They are not GOD. This over respect of judiciary is a Victorian British hangover.

The ban on diesel vehicles above 2000 cc and the sunfilm ban are equally retarded.

Look at the reason that the Supreme Court gave to justify his ban on diesels above 2000cc. The judgement says that diesels are bad just because diesel buses were converted to CNG 20 years back to control pollution.

The judge clearly doesn't understand that technical progress can be made in twenty years. Neither do they have solid proof that all pollution in Delhi is because of above 2000 cc diesels.

Environment cases should be handled by a group of judges with some background in science and environment. When you have unqualified people , these are the judgements you will get. This is like asking a blind man to distinguish between white and black.
What are the criteria to be a Supreme Court judge BTW?

A LLB degree , a long period of distinguisged private practice or a long period as Magistrate or High Court Judge. Where is the competence to handle technical cases ?

The Green Tribunal should only be allowed to deal with environmental issues that existing laws don't cover. For example
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/10...nightmare.html

What I don't understand is why the trial lawyers representing auto firms have not been able to convince the court that technology has improved in the last 20 years,

BTW a court banning sunfilms which clearly legal as per the existing laws is also unparliamentary. There is nothing in using unparlientary words to describe in parliamentary behaviour. I wish the government would put the Courts back to its place of enforcing existing laws and not creating new ones.

Criticism of courts and their judgements is freedom of speech. If that is not allowed the country is truly a banana republic.

Last edited by Ragavsr : 30th May 2016 at 01:07.
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Old 30th May 2016, 01:56   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chakky View Post
Captain, just take it as frustrations of people who are going to be affected by the ban. Even bigger forums like twitter or fb posts more unparliamentary stuff but its a persons' opinion and we have freedom of press to state our views. Unlike my earlier post which was actually irate, I am just saying no one here actually means to degrade the NGT. But like this article proves,

NGT has probably taken an action in haste and without proper data. This is exactly like the EPF rules in this budget which caused issues in Karnataka and had to be backtracked are similar instances of the common man venting out their frustrations.
you are right when you say that it is the frustration of the people, who are slated to lose their precious cars with one stroke of a decision.

Constructive and meaningful criticism is protected by the courts but a little restraint in expression is always needed.

We should hope that the major car makers, NGOs, proactive advocates and individuals will contest the matter before the High Court as well as before the Supreme Court to get the NGT orders revised after exhausted study of the matter.

I also wish that the High Court should also invite suggestions from major car magazines as well as portals like TEAM-bhp.com. on this issue, so that they have sufficient material as well as the pulse of the people before them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragavsr View Post
There is no harm in calling a retarded brainless idiot or a drunkard by the same name .

The NGT shouldn't interfere in matters where there is rule of law already established.

I don't understand why the judiciary should be above criticism .The judges are also humans bound to make mistakes .

The judge clearly doesn't understand that technical progress can be made in twenty years. Neither do they have solid proof that all pollution in Delhi is because of above 2000 cc diesels.

Environment cases should be handled by a group of judges with some background in science and environment. When you have unqualified people , these are the judgements you will get.

What I don't understand is why the trial lawyers representing auto firms have not been able to convince the court that technology has improved in the last 20 years,


Criticism of courts and their judgements is freedom of speech. If that is not allowed the country is truly a banana republic.
except your outbursts, your views are excellent and worth consideration. May I request you to keep on giving meaningful suggestions without criticizing the Judiciary.

Right criticism should be allowed to be made by Law so that innovative suggestions are not curtailed.

Last edited by Zappo : 30th May 2016 at 13:15. Reason: No back to back posts please. Use the multiquote option to respond to everyone in a post.
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Old 30th May 2016, 07:13   #184
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

I think someone should (wonder who) take on the NGT extremism and activism. It is high time when such arbitrary actions are curbed. 10 year plus vehicles (esp private ones) and ban on Diesels above 2.4 litres. If the enforcement machinery is lax then haul it up, but not come up with such 'cover ups'.

They must be told in no uncertain terms that define the pollution norms and get on with it. I am yet to see the NGT take any action against the widespread sale of adulterated fuels, or fudging of PUC tests. Such arbitrary interference in administrative matters must be curbed.
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Old 30th May 2016, 08:16   #185
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About two years back when the central government changed, there was optimism on how the antiquated motor vehicles act will be revised, bus code will be implemented, consistent fuel, pollution, safety and general automobile manufacturing policies will be seen.

Now? Nothing happened. It's gone from bad to worse. Sun film ban seems so small a discomfort when the whole damn car itself is getting banned.
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Old 30th May 2016, 08:48   #186
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Now there is speculation that the ban may extend to Ban galore, Hyderabad, Mumbai, Pune, Chandigarh, Ludhiana and more cities to come. Jai ho NGT. May be they are sponsored by the same political opposition which raised the intolerance nonsense too.
http://m.economictimes.com/news/econ...w/52496393.cms
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Old 30th May 2016, 08:52   #187
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Now there is speculation that the ban may extend to Ban galore, Hyderabad, Mumbai, Pune, Chandigarh, Ludhiana and more cities to come. Jai ho NGT. May be they are sponsored by the same political opposition which raised the intolerance nonsense too.
http://m.economictimes.com/news/econ...w/52496393.cms
At this rate, soon India will become "diesel-mukt Bharat"

Buyers, it will be sensible to hold off your decision for the moment. Even if new cars are allowed to be registered now, who knows five years down the line there might be a ban on 5-year diesels
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Old 30th May 2016, 08:55   #188
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Now there is speculation that the ban may extend to Ban galore, Hyderabad, Mumbai, Pune, Chandigarh, Ludhiana and more cities to come. Jai ho NGT. May be they are sponsored by the same political opposition which raised the intolerance nonsense too.
http://m.economictimes.com/news/econ...w/52496393.cms
Maybe there is a reason why every place has a retirement. By hiring retired judges to prominent activities like NGT shows why it's failing...
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Old 30th May 2016, 09:29   #189
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by shobhitk View Post
May I request you to keep on giving meaningful suggestions without criticizing the Judiciary.

Right criticism should be allowed to be made by Law so that innovative suggestions are not curtailed.
What worries me is knee jerk judgements which is causing loss of jobs, investment to appeal to a few audiences. What we require is a pollution data based study for which should be used in future judgements and this study should be a continuous process otherwise we will start losing faith in judicary. Change should be gradual and benefits everyone.
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Old 30th May 2016, 09:42   #190
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

my personal take on this. Luckily my Storme is only 2 years old. That means I can enjoy it until 2024 at least unless some enlightened souls help get rid of NGT and its meddling bans. Worst case, I may install a gas guzzling v6 into the cavernous engine bay of the Storme and drive happily. I am sure the enlightened NGT will be happy with more cancer causing fumes that I am emitting from my tailpipe. Mission accomplished.
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Old 30th May 2016, 09:50   #191
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

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Originally Posted by TD_GHY View Post
At this rate, soon India will become "diesel-mukt Bharat"
No way. the farm sector and transport runs on it. Also, a large part of indian railways, gensets, etc. More important our Netas are addicted to large Diesel SUVs.
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Old 30th May 2016, 11:23   #192
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Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Just wondering .


1. Road tax and registration taken for 15 years. Now this ban on diesel vehicles more that 10 years. Question is , Will the court/NGT direct the transport department to refund the road tax for the balance 5 years. with interest for the last 10 years.

2. if my car which could be worth say 2 laks is made worthless over night , will i be allowed to write it off as a loss in my taxes.

My 9 year old fiesta diesel has less visible smoke and pollution compared to a city auto running on diesel and belching out smoke non stop.

Business, companies, rich people get away with almost everything, its the mango people who are left to bear the brunt.

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Old 30th May 2016, 11:29   #193
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Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
my personal take on this. Luckily my Storme is only 2 years old. That means I can enjoy it until 2024 at least unless some enlightened souls help get rid of NGT and its meddling bans. Worst case, I may install a gas guzzling v6 into the cavernous engine bay of the Storme and drive happily. I am sure the enlightened NGT will be happy with more cancer causing fumes that I am emitting from my tailpipe. Mission accomplished.
We are not here to cause more damage to defeat NGT . Hehe NGT is very happy now, they have made so many people sit up and take notice of them and the environment for a change. Whether good or bad.

End of the day if not the NGT, I do hope atleast someone makes proper sense of all this and puts things in perspective. I like Nitin Gadkari personally due to the way he has been moving road developments without much fuss. If he can get involved in faster policy making for the automobile sector, we will have less of NGT involvement or show offs...

Presently the issue everyone is waiting with bated breath is how will it pan out. Delhi was an exception due to being considered the worst polluted cities among the world. Kerala is a different ball game. If they say with pollution within limits, they will enforce this, then we know that people would need to rise up against this policy or else we will be giving out our freedom to senseless policies intended with some kind of unacceptable intention.

I do hope not everyone in Judiciary has a hatred towards SUV's or transportation. One of the best things government should do to reduce pollution in cities is to move out goverment organizations and judiciary from the cities to village areas and reduce the pollution they themselves add as unlike businesses, government organizations that thrive on our tax monies can setup and work anywhere...
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Old 30th May 2016, 13:54   #194
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Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
About two years back when the central government changed, there was optimism on how the antiquated motor vehicles act will be revised, bus code will be implemented, consistent fuel, pollution, safety and general automobile manufacturing policies will be seen.

Now? Nothing happened. It's gone from bad to worse. Sun film ban seems so small a discomfort when the whole damn car itself is getting banned.
These are not only your doubts, but doubts in the mind of any citizen. However, there are two things that we may need to keep in mind.
1)NGT is not a government machinery, so this decision cannot be put on the government.
2) Any law regarding amendments in the motor vehicle act needs approval from Rajysabha,which is controlled by the notorious people from the last government.
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Old 30th May 2016, 14:11   #195
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Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

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These are not only your doubts, but doubts in the mind of any citizen. However, there are two things that we may need to keep in mind.
1)NGT is not a government machinery, so this decision cannot be put on the government.
2) Any law regarding amendments in the motor vehicle act needs approval from Rajysabha,which is controlled by the notorious people from the last government.
1.) There are a lot of things the Government can do. Recently the Supreme Court passed a ruling that common entrance test is mandatory for medical courses. States including TN objected and pressured the Central Government to pass an amendment through the President that it's not required for states like TN. The Central and state governments are conveniently watching the show instead of doing what we elected them to do.

2.) The government hasn't even completed it's job of proposing the changes.
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