Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd June 2016, 21:28   #241
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 98
Thanked: 55 Times
Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRPAI View Post
Does the ban on ten year old Diesel's resume or has that been stayed as well?.
AFAIK, the ban on ten year old diesels has not been stayed by the court. However as has been pointed out in another post, SIAM has appealed it. Also note that the state government has not started implementing the ban.

Last edited by MinivanDriver : 3rd June 2016 at 21:29.
MinivanDriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2016, 22:09   #242
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 524
Thanked: 226 Times
Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

An interesting article in the online edition of TOI:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/52575304.cms

Some of it corroborates (atleast in my non technical mind) what tsk has been saying in the other thread:


"Cars are the biggest contributor to particulate load at 43 per cent, followed by SUVs at 23 per cent. Together they contribute 66 per cent of the particulate load," the CSE said.

Urging the government for immediate action to promote the public transport and discourage motorization, Roychowdhury said that the incoming cars have the highest per capita carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions (3,031 gram/km), followed by SUVs at 1,919 gm/km, and two-wheelers at 988 gm/km. The CO2 emission traps heat.

The incoming passenger buses have the smallest carbon footprint of 539 gm/km."

So I guess, NGT and the Supreme court will have to now ban "incoming cars" from entering Delhi. Maybe they should transfer Karnataka RTO officials to Delhi
ajayclicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2016, 00:36   #243
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: cochin
Posts: 49
Thanked: 65 Times
Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper...cle8679742.ece

Looks like LEAF is all out to save our lives. Not sure why they limited to only diesel cars. They should have said everyone should stop travelling then the citizens lives will be stationary and alive!! What some people do to make name..
chakky is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2016, 02:46   #244
BHPian
 
holysmoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 227
Thanked: 40 Times
Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

So the opening post of the thread was quite awesome. I would challenge any of those Indica cabs still plying around after this to an emission shootout against the new C220 which is banned. Needless to say that it doesn't make sense... however, we need to understand the entire scenario here. (copy pasting some stuff from another post of mine on TBHP)

The Govt is unable to speed up crude refining to BS-VI early.
With that, they cannot pressure manufacturers to adopt to BS-VI early, and even if they do, whats the point if the fuel is not available pan India.
Hence Govt sits on its donkey, and takes no action.
National Green Tribunal wakes up, takes drastic measure of banning diesels above 2000c in Delhi and proposed 12-13 more towns.

Who suffers? Car makers like Audi, Mercedes, Toyota etc.

What's the way out?
Instead of(or in addition to) to a negative solution(ban all engines above 2000cc), it wont be long before the automakers lobby for a positive solution. This specially holds true for the bigger MNCs like Toyota and Merc, who are affected here, who have advanced technologies. I can see lobbying starting on reduction of import duty for clean vehicles. It is imperative that their eyes will go the other side of the line once they are sure that this ban is here to stay. Right now they are cribbing and silent, but when they realize the govt cant do jack, they'll start pushing for incentives on clean tech.

Meanwhile, Tesla has already taken bookings for the model 3 in India.

Piyush Goyal, the power minister is tirelessly fixing India's power issues. Keep an eye out for him.

This should be fun.
holysmoke is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2016, 11:53   #245
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Pune
Posts: 597
Thanked: 633 Times
Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by holysmoke View Post
The Govt is unable to speed up crude refining to BS-VI early.
With that, they cannot pressure manufacturers to adopt to BS-VI early, and even if they do, whats the point if the fuel is not available pan India.
Hence Govt sits on its donkey, and takes no action.
The process to upgrade the refineries to supply BS IV norm diesel all over the country from April 2017 was in progress, there were to be two more steps to improve to BS V for 6 metro + 22 regions by 2019 and to BS VI by 2023. Oil ministry took a desigion in 2014 Dec itself to skip BS V and upgrade countrywide to BS VI level by April 2020.


Quote:
Originally Posted by holysmoke View Post
National Green Tribunal wakes up, takes drastic measure of banning diesels above 2000c in Delhi and proposed 12-13 more towns.
An ad hoc ban by a mis informed quasi judicial body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by holysmoke View Post
Who suffers? Car makers like Audi, Mercedes, Toyota etc.

What's the way out?
Instead of(or in addition to) to a negative solution(ban all engines above 2000cc), it wont be long before the automakers lobby for a positive solution. This specially holds true for the bigger MNCs like Toyota and Merc, who are affected here, who have advanced technologies. I can see lobbying starting on reduction of import duty for clean vehicles. It is imperative that their eyes will go the other side of the line once they are sure that this ban is here to stay. Right now they are cribbing and silent, but when they realize the govt cant do jack, they'll start pushing for incentives on clean tech.
wait a few more years for 2020, and BS VI norms where Diesel limits are way cleaner than for petrol or CNG will come in, and they will want issue scrap orders for the other two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by holysmoke View Post
Meanwhile, Tesla has already taken bookings for the model 3 in India.

Piyush Goyal, the power minister is tirelessly fixing India's power issues. Keep an eye out for him.

This should be fun.
Electric can be a good alternative, but not a replacement. A Plug in diesel electric series hybrid with a option of engine shut down and fully electric drive will be the best solution.

Rahul

Last edited by ajmat : 4th June 2016 at 17:10.
Rahul Rao is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2016, 11:59   #246
Distinguished - BHPian
 
volkman10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 10,062
Thanked: 15,597 Times
Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

SIAM approaches Kerala HC to lift NGT's ban on diesel vehicles -Vehicles sold by SIAM's members comply with all statutory norms and emission standards prescribed by law.

Quote:
The petition filed by Atanu Ganguli, senior director of SIAM, alleged that the NGT's order of May 23 was passed without any material being available before the tribunal to show that ambient air quality of the six 'cities' were above the prescribed norms and that pollution is caused.

There was no material before NGT to conclude that such pollution was being caused by diesel vehicles of 2,000CC and above or diesel vehicles older than 10 years
Quote:
NGT's order can only be challenged before the Supreme Court or before a division bench of the high court, LEAF's counsel argued
http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...icles/52576809

Last edited by volkman10 : 4th June 2016 at 12:02.
volkman10 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2016, 14:16   #247
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 2,004
Thanked: 2,025 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

I see a big political scheme behind NGT activity. They were formed in 2002. What did they do for the past 12/13 years? They seem to have woken up just after the regime change. For two decades they were sleeping as if there was no pollution since so many years. Suddenly NGT is active And in overdrive competing with the likes of fundamentalist organisations in banning everything in sight. Did they consider it necessary to ban the Jugaad? The diesel gensets? The diesel locomotives running under electric wires? The societies in Gurgaon running 24/7 on captive diesel power? How about banning illegal industries within cities famous being the likes of the leather factories of Dharavi? Are those planting oxygen and cleaning rivers...
apachelongbow is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2016, 14:40   #248
Senior - BHPian
 
lurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tura
Posts: 1,308
Thanked: 641 Times
Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
I see a big political scheme behind NGT activity. They were formed in 2002. What did they do for the past 12/13 years? They seem to have woken up just after the regime change. For two decades they were sleeping as if there was no pollution since so many years. Suddenly NGT is active And in overdrive competing with the likes of fundamentalist organisations in banning everything in sight. Did they consider it necessary to ban the Jugaad? The diesel gensets? The diesel locomotives running under electric wires? The societies in Gurgaon running 24/7 on captive diesel power? How about banning illegal industries within cities famous being the likes of the leather factories of Dharavi? Are those planting oxygen and cleaning rivers...
there is some kind of game afoot. This is the same kind of scam like once a campaign was launched specifically against **Maggi noodles** while all the other noodle brands were unmolested on store shelves. The others were apparently using the cleanest tech in the world to manufacture noodles in India. While maggi was caking their noodles with wax and mixing lead in their masala powder.
lurker is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2016, 15:21   #249
BHPian
 
dean5545's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: mumbai
Posts: 661
Thanked: 785 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
I see a big political scheme behind NGT activity. They were formed in 2002. What did they do for the past 12/13 years? They seem to have woken up just after the regime change. For two decades they were sleeping as if there was no pollution since so many years. Suddenly NGT is active And in overdrive competing with the likes of fundamentalist organisations in banning everything in sight. Did they consider it necessary to ban the Jugaad? The diesel gensets? The diesel locomotives running under electric wires? The societies in Gurgaon running 24/7 on captive diesel power? How about banning illegal industries within cities famous being the likes of the leather factories of Dharavi? Are those planting oxygen and cleaning rivers...


Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
there is some kind of game afoot. This is the same kind of scam like once a campaign was launched specifically against **Maggi noodles** while all the other noodle brands were unmolested on store shelves. The others were apparently using the cleanest tech in the world to manufacture noodles in India. While maggi was caking their noodles with wax and mixing lead in their masala powder.
While other auto company's expressed their disbelief in the new ban improving the environmental conditions. I was shocked to see Anand Mahindra's first reaction on Twitter.
He said he fully supports the courts decision and has full faith in the Indian Judicial system. These are not his exact words but in the lines of what he said.
Then within a weeks time he announced that the company will launch a 1.9ltr engine to comply with this ban. How can a company ever design a new engine in such a short span.
dean5545 is online now   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2016, 17:00   #250
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 64
Thanked: 119 Times
Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by dean5545 View Post
... Then within a weeks time he announced that the company will launch a 1.9ltr engine to comply with this ban. How can a company ever design a new engine in such a short span.
The engine is most likely the original engine but with a reduced stroke to bring the displacement within the new limits. No major mechanical changes are required for such a modification.
vivtho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2016, 17:24   #251
Distinguished - BHPian
 
anjan_c2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: India
Posts: 5,531
Thanked: 4,705 Times
Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

The ruling on old cars is now getting applied to paris too. All pre 1997 cars are banned in Paris. Wonder whether NGT is following them or are they following our NGT ?

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...1997?fbfanpage

That's worrisome here ! Appears like a blanket ban. Classics and older ones included. We were quoting that developed countries do not ban older cars. Now the NGT will get more teeth and the bite may be injurious when the quote practices in Paris.
anjan_c2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2016, 17:51   #252
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: cochin
Posts: 49
Thanked: 65 Times
Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
The ruling on old cars is now getting applied to paris too. All pre 1997 cars are banned in Paris. Wonder whether NGT is following them or are they following our NGT ?

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...1997?fbfanpage

That's worrisome here ! Appears like a blanket ban. Classics and older ones included. We were quoting that developed countries do not ban older cars. Now the NGT will get more teeth and the bite may be injurious when the quote practices in Paris.
Its not a blanket ban but a staggered ban...


If your car was built before 1997, donít even think about driving it into Paris after this month. From July 1, the French capital will ban vehicles older than 19 years from driving in the city on workdays. Motorcycles will face yet tighter restrictions, with a driving ban on all two-wheeled motor vehicles made before 2000. Anyone caught driving an older vehicle will face a fine whose potential severity ranges from modest (Ä35) to biting (Ä450). While these vehicles will still be allowed on the roads before 8 a.m. and after 8 p.m., and without restriction on weekends, the new rules represent some of the toughest restrictions on drivers yet introduced by a European city.
chakky is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2016, 19:00   #253
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: cochin
Posts: 49
Thanked: 65 Times
Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper...cle8689155.ece

KSRTC and Private bus owners have finally got into action. I am not so sure on how less polluting their buses are but its better than nothing.

Unless our elected representatives act on behalf of the private vehicle owners, I am not sure if there is any other organization that can get in to support the private vehicle owners...looks like we have no other form of representation...
chakky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2016, 03:31   #254
BHPian
 
aruncheloor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Trichur, Kerala
Posts: 231
Thanked: 185 Times
Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Now, its our turn to protest against such arbitrary rulings.. please join us.
Attached Thumbnails
NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban-img20160606wa0010.jpg  

NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban-img20160606wa0009.jpg  

aruncheloor is offline   (10) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2016, 12:27   #255
Senior - BHPian
 
alpha1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: P00NA
Posts: 1,626
Thanked: 967 Times
Default Re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by dean5545 View Post
While other auto company's expressed their disbelief in the new ban improving the environmental conditions. I was shocked to see Anand Mahindra's first reaction on Twitter.
He said he fully supports the courts decision and has full faith in the Indian Judicial system. These are not his exact words but in the lines of what he said.
Then within a weeks time he announced that the company will launch a 1.9ltr engine to comply with this ban. How can a company ever design a new engine in such a short span.
The same point has been discussed: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3891222

The Supreme court has entertained such petitions since 2013. Mahindra wouldn't be sitting quietly, knowing well that banning decision may be taken any day.
alpha1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kerala High Court bans motorcycle modifications batterylow Motorbikes 30 28th December 2016 15:59
Govt plans incentives for surrender of old vehicles saket77 The Indian Car Scene 66 19th December 2016 12:57
NGT gives a blanket ban to commercial diesel vehicles on Rohtang Pass tsk1979 Route / Travel Queries 37 16th July 2015 12:05
NGT bans vehicles older than 15 years luvtandon The Indian Car Scene 1 27th November 2014 12:43


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 21:13.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks