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Old 25th May 2016, 11:32   #106
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

I don't understand why this sudden hatred against Diesel cars, these decisions give us an impression that petrol cars run around the city with a halo around themselves emitting only oxygen and water as the by-products of combustion!

And with regards to the 2,000 cc ban, they're climbing up the wrong tree. I said this when it was implemented in Delhi and say it again, it's diesel hatchbacks and compact sedans that should be targeted and not the bigger vehicles. Bigger vehicles have always had diesel engines, (remember the old Mahindra Jeeps, Tata Sumo, Armada etc. they've always been diesel right from their inception) and rightly so. It makes no sense whatsoever to have a 1.5 tonne SUV being driven by a petrol engine returning a fuel economy of 5-6 kms/l.

Whereas when it comes to hatchbacks, there's absolutely no need for a diesel engine in a Swift, i20, Dzire, Polo, Xcent, Baleno etc. These cars can do very well with a petrol engine giving us a good fuel economy without massively compromising on the performance.
We have the 4m rule right, why not use it here as well? Let's say that any car which is lesser than 4m in length cannot have a diesel engine.
That would be far logical decision and would have a considerable impact on pollution over time.

But such a decision will need conviction, cause it involves taking on the masses and the might of Maruti Suzuki, which obviously no authority wants to get involved in.

The 2,000 cc ban is more of a symbolic decision to showcase that we're making the auto industry and the rich pay for their polluting diesel vehicles. The authorities know that this decision will have negligible repercussions and can be showcased as "action" against pollution. On the ground, we all know that this will have absolutely no impact on pollution.
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Old 25th May 2016, 11:57   #107
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

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Originally Posted by sdp1975 View Post
I am now even more irritated with Mahindra for not supplying the 1.9L engine in the XUV500 to non NCR regions.

Anyways, with the current trend and information what conclusion can we draw- if I have purchased my XUV500 in 2016, I can safely drive this across India till 2026 (except Manali etc.)? Ofcourse ,there could be new rules and further persecution, but we do not know that yet.

As per my initial plans, I would have traveled not more than 40K in my XUV in these 10 years. I guess I should alter my driving and holidaying patterns to cover atleast 60K- 70K and recoup some of my "investments". What an irony- this lop sided drive towards pollution control is actually motivating me to increase the usage of my evil diesel spewing gas chamber SUV
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Old 25th May 2016, 12:19   #108
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

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You need to tone down sir. There is a better way of putting your point across. Let's try to keep our discourse civil.
My apologies. I should have done better. I just felt diesel subsidy was not the discussion here and in the heat of the moment responded without thinking of the rules. Apologies to everyone reading this thread. My bad 😞
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Old 25th May 2016, 12:49   #109
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Originally Posted by DrvSafe View Post
I have booked Brezza ZDI. Shall I reconsider my booking of diesel car or purchase the same?. Confused now. Please share your valuable opinion.
I think the NGT order says that diesel vehicles which are over 10 years old "whether light or heavy" will not be able to ply in the 6 Corporations. I am not quite sure whether this includes smaller diesel engines as well.
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Old 25th May 2016, 13:13   #110
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

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Originally Posted by motorheart View Post
Tax fuel around 100% and then give a meagre reduction called subsidy.... thats a different story...

NGT should first fix the pollution check mockery which is existing in India first....and then look at banning vehicles....Now look at this bus, i am sure this would be equal to n number of 2000CCs...

https://twitter.com/anzieee/status/7...710336/video/1
That is right.

The 'subsidy'on the diesel price is on the taxes and levees the government collects. The procurement, processing and transportation cost is collected in full.

Nobody was losing money. They were just making a little less. The same theory goes for kerosene and LPG subsidy as far as I know.

As a tax payer, it is really hard to not feel victimized. Some stats even say only 3% of the country actually pays tax.
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Old 25th May 2016, 14:38   #111
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

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Originally Posted by ajayclicks View Post
Anyways, with the current trend and information what conclusion can we draw- if I have purchased my XUV500 in 2016, I can safely drive this across India till 2026 (except Manali etc.)? Ofcourse ,there could be new rules and further persecution, but we do not know that yet.
One doubt I have is let's say I purchase a diesel vehicle in Bangalore which is over 2,000 cc. Few years later i get transferred to Delhi. There obviously, registration of cars over 2,000 cc are banned. So will I not be allowed to get a Delhi number for my vehicle when I get transferred?
Not sure how this scenario would work.
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Old 25th May 2016, 14:47   #112
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

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Originally Posted by greatgyan View Post
One doubt I have is let's say I purchase a diesel vehicle in Bangalore which is over 2,000 cc. Few years later i get transferred to Delhi. There obviously, registration of cars over 2,000 cc are banned. So will I not be allowed to get a Delhi number for my vehicle when I get transferred?
Not sure how this scenario would work.
Do you need a Delhi number? In Bangalore, when out of state vehicles were targeted, a friend's WB registered vehicle was caught. He had an option of paying only the LTT, but continuing with the WB registration. Ofcourse, this resulted in his vehicle getting stopped a few more times, but he still has the WB registration.
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Old 25th May 2016, 14:54   #113
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

I was planning to buy a new car towards the end of December, when I am back from my assignment. And since I owned a diesel car, I was heavily inclined to go for a diesel mill considering my driving pattern and usage - but this has put a serious doubt in my mind.

Whilst it is good to know that there are initiatives coming from the authorities to create a cleaner environment, it would have been so much better if they had also provided their 'plans' for the following issues :

- what to do with the cars that are older than 10 years ? How do the owners dispose them off ?
- what about the government run vehicles (I believe almost 80% of the state run vehicles are diesels which are either > 2000 cc or older than 10 years). And the fact that they are poorly maintained, causes them to be more harmful than private vehicles- I mean c'mon, a Merc or a Toyota is way ahead in 'environment friendliness' compared to the KSTRC buses or even the Police jeeps.
- the question of 5 year additional tax (already discussed in this thread)

If they had considered the above and implemented solutions to them first, this decision would have made sense. But as of now, its just stupidity and one that hurts the common man.
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Old 25th May 2016, 14:55   #114
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Ah, this hurts. While i am a big supporter of every change that can bring down pollution, targeting private vehicles above 2000cc is discriminatory. How much ever technology advancement we have, i dont think we can have 1liter petrol engine churning out 150bhp+ and torque to manage running a SUV without sacrificing fuel economy.But if that happens, then awesome.

I feel this is counter productive and working in silo. One side government is fast tracking BSVI and other side there is complete ban on vehicles above 2000c; even though they comply with better pollution control standards. This is a halfhearted attempt to show that the rich (according to some theories anyone who can afford a SUV is a rich person) are the only ones who create the pollution around us and ignoring adulteration of fuel, poorly maintained auto rickshaws, trucks, factories etc.

I would have expected NGT to say that if the emission is above particular level, then they cannot run and target all classes not being discriminatory.

Thanks to the judgement, there are many unfortunate folks who are going to lose money just because they bought a technically advanced car like innova, xuv to satisfy their needs, passion. Wait, they are rich anyways, so they can afford !

Waseem/Silverwood, do you think we can file an objection against this order ?

Last edited by sunishsamuel : 25th May 2016 at 15:01.
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Old 25th May 2016, 15:35   #115
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Instead of enforcing a ban on some types of vehicles, the authorities should formulate some ways to address the problem on the face of it. Now what is the issue here? pollution.? So they must work out some permissible limits for all types of polluting elements like, SO2, CO2, CO, suspended particles etc. and must insist on the above for all the cars irrespective of fuel variants.
The test centres are to be upgraded and I don't think it will necessitate huge initial costs and can efficiently be organised.
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Old 25th May 2016, 15:42   #116
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

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Originally Posted by greatgyan View Post
Whereas when it comes to hatchbacks, there's absolutely no need for a diesel engine in a Swift, i20, Dzire, Polo, Xcent, Baleno etc. These cars can do very well with a petrol engine giving us a good fuel economy without massively compromising on the performance.
Even here the difference in effeciency exists. I have 3 cars all sub 4M 2 Petrol and 1 Diesel. My usage for two cars remains approx lakh km in 5 years, while the third a basc Wagon R runs half that. The Polo 1.2 TDI which returns 15-17 in city needs under Rs 70,000 of Diesel, while the Ecosport returns barely 10 and needs 1.25 lakhs of petrol.
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Old 25th May 2016, 15:49   #117
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

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Originally Posted by Rahul Rao View Post
Even here the difference in effeciency exists. I have 3 cars all sub 4M 2 Petrol and 1 Diesel. My usage for two cars remains approx lakh km in 5 years, while the third a basc Wagon R runs half that. The Polo 1.2 TDI which returns 15-17 in city needs under Rs 70,000 of Diesel, while the Ecosport returns barely 10 and needs 1.25 lakhs of petrol.
Yes, the difference in fuel efficiency will obviously be there. But it's more logical to rather ban diesel hatchbacks than the SUVs. Cause hatchbacks can still give a decent double digit fuel economy on petrol engines (although less when compared to diesel). Whereas for big SUVs, the fuel efficiency will come down to below 5 km/l in practical city conditions when powered by a 2 liter petrol engine. That would be illogical and ridiculous.
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Old 25th May 2016, 15:50   #118
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

Heard an unconfirmed news that Kakkanad RTO (Ernakulam) has already stopped the registration of 2000cc+ Diesels. Can anyone validate this?
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Old 25th May 2016, 16:05   #119
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

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Originally Posted by greatgyan View Post
Yes, the difference in fuel efficiency will obviously be there. But it's more logical to rather ban diesel hatchbacks than the SUVs. Cause hatchbacks can still give a decent double digit fuel economy on petrol engines (although less when compared to diesel). Whereas for big SUVs, the fuel efficiency will come down to below 5 km/l in practical city conditions when powered by a 2 liter petrol engine. That would be illogical and ridiculous.
Very true!! How many litres of non renewable fuels will be wasted driving a petrol SUV than a diesel one. Just because the rich can afford it, should we allow such a criminal waste when alternate sources are not available?

I believe MVD should create a lot more employment by creating government sponsored PUC centers for each district, where any vehicle over 10 years should be given 1-2 year recertification checks.

As long as they are within pollution limits, they should be allowed to ply..
This will not only create employment, but it will also ensure only well maintained vehicles over ten years old will be running on our roads. This is inclusive of autorickshaws, bikes, cars.

Secondly NGT has no details, what are the levels they are targetting for cities? What other options other than diesel cars is there for them to fix specific to Kerala where they put this ban?
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Old 25th May 2016, 16:48   #120
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Default re: NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

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Originally Posted by chakky View Post

I believe MVD should create a lot more employment by creating government sponsored PUC centers for each district, where any vehicle over 10 years should be given 1-2 year recertification checks.

As long as they are within pollution limits, they should be allowed to ply..
This will not only create employment, but it will also ensure only well maintained vehicles over ten years old will be running on our roads. This is inclusive of autorickshaws, bikes, cars.
The plan sounds good on paper, but in real world conditions, I have my reservations. You very well know that this would open up a massive corruption avenue where anyone can get the required certificate by bribing his way through the process. And conversely perhaps, even if someone has a totally legal car, he or she may not be given clearance unless he or she greases the palms of certain officials.
The idea is definitely the most logical way to deal with the current situation. But with regards to India, it might just cause further corruption.
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