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Old 25th May 2016, 12:29   #16
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Default re: Threatening Diesel Bans: Keep or Sell older car?

Once you buy and register the car, you will be able to keep it for 15 years after paying one-time tax. There are no two ways to that. Everything else is illegal because one-time tax or lifetime tax is a contract between the state and the individual. Any rule violating this will void the contract, which then attracts legal penalties bound for violation of contract.

So any 10 year, 5 year, 12 year rule is unenforceable.
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Old 25th May 2016, 13:07   #17
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Default re: Threatening Diesel Bans: Keep or Sell older car?

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Originally Posted by keeprevving View Post
The Delhi ban was a minor jolt. Then, the news of Kerala banning 10+ year old diesel has left me heart-broken. Why? I fear all states govt. including mine (Odisha) will follow the same rule blindly, just to show-off their concern for the society and the environment.
First, it is not the state govt. that is imposing the ban, it is the NGT. If you follow the SC hearing ( for NCR) closely you would see that the state and Central govt. are arguing against the ban and the Central govt. may bring about a scrapping policy sooner or later. The auto industry, on the other hand, is in favour of a one time environment cess for all diesel vehicles.

The situation is very fluid at this stage and no one knows for sure what the final outcome will be like, so hold on to your dear Indica and pray for the best.
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Old 25th May 2016, 16:34   #18
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Default Re: Threatening Diesel Bans: Keep or Sell older car?

From the legal point of view, relax. No one has taken 10 year old cars off the road. The NGT just keeps talking, releasing one silly order after another. In a country where automotive penetration is abysmally low (30 - 40 cars / 1,000 citizens compared to 800 / 1,000 in developed countries), 10 year old cars are going nowhere.

That said, from the practicality point of view, I'd recommend you to sell the Indica. By current standards, it's an antique piece in terms of safety, power, features etc. You've used it enough - now go and buy a nice modern car.
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Old 25th May 2016, 16:49   #19
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Default Re: Threatening Diesel Bans: Keep or Sell older car?

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
That said, from the practicality point of view, I'd recommend you to sell the Indica. By current standards, it's an antique piece in terms of safety, power, features etc. You've used it enough - now go and buy a nice modern car.
I already have a 2012 City doing duties perfectly. I am game for a proper SUV, my next upgrade. City will still be with the family. I know, I have used it enough. She has served me well, very well, and somewhere I feel, keeping her with me for the rest of my life will be a kind of true tribute to the old-workhorse. May be, I am emotional, can't help it though.

Last edited by keeprevving : 25th May 2016 at 17:07.
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Old 26th May 2016, 15:09   #20
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Default Re: Threatening Diesel Bans: Keep or Sell older car?

I am in a similar position with a 7+ year old Scorpio. Am thinking of selling it off as well. But am unsure whether to buy a Petrol or a Diesel as my next car, given the current environmental concerns. Compounding this is my requirement for a 7 seater within a budget of 15-17 L. Two cars that I have in mind: XUV W6AT/ Honda BRV Petrol AT.

Any comments/suggestions to tackle this dilemma will be welcome...

Last edited by JKBKS : 26th May 2016 at 15:19.
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Old 26th May 2016, 16:46   #21
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Default Re: Threatening Diesel Bans: Keep or Sell older car?

I have a feeling the Govt haven't done their homework. When they say certain vehicles and not allowed after a certain years in certain cities, they should then also not take the lifetime tax for 15 years. I don't understand the logic. People who have already paid roadtax upfront for 15 long years (place like Karnataka, through the nose), it is nonsense to now say they can't drive to a certain city. Or Govt has to have a better reasoning with solution.
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Old 26th May 2016, 19:37   #22
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Default Re: Threatening Diesel Bans: Keep or Sell older car?

A big relief for people with old cars. I think this is the first time ever a Transport Minister words were pragmatic.

Abrupt bans on diesel cars to create socioeconomic problems: Nitin Gadkari

"Gadkari, claimed that the road and shipping sector would attract investment amounting to Rs 25 lakh crore, increase GDP by 3% .

Abrupt bans on diesel cars were not a panacea for pollution and would only create socioeconomic problems, Transport Minister Nitin Gadkari has said. "You can't ban vehicles one fine day. If you have bought a taxi on EMI, how are you going to repay the loan? It would create socioeconomic problems. Bans are no solution.

These things have to be discussed with stakeholders before such bans are implemented," he said. In an interview with ET, Gadkari said the government would introduce BS-VI emission norms by April 2020 for petrol and diesel while standards for use of green fuel such as ethanol and biodiesel have already been notified.

"For Delhi, we are working on a decongestion plan as a part of which we are building elevated corridors and ring roads at the cost of Rs 30,000 crore," he said.

Gadkari, reckoned to be one of best-performing ministers in the current Cabinet, claimed that the road and shipping sector would attract investment amounting to Rs 25 lakh crore, provide jobs to over four crore people and increase India's GDP by 3% by the time the NDA government ended its term in 2019.

"What Congress did not do in 50 years, we'll do in these five years," Gadkari said adding that hopes from this government were high. He disclaimed interest in any other portfolio, pointing out that surface transport was a department he had sought. "

Source: ETAuto

Last edited by tsk1979 : 29th June 2017 at 09:57.
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Old 26th May 2016, 19:52   #23
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Default Re: Threatening Diesel Bans: Keep or Sell older car?

I have some experience of govt (central) bureaucracy and it's functioning and I can hazard a guess as to what really may have happened:
  • India follows WB/IMF/EU/US led policies on transportation sector. Proof of this is adoption of EU3, EU4 norms as BS3, BS4 etc. It doesn't have an indendent alternate energy philosophy. It just follows global cues set by these self-appointed 'leaders'. Keeping this in mind.
  • first event

    there has been some kind of consensus at UN level, and I get strong feeling about this, that all gasoline vehicles have to be phased out/replaced at certain time frame. Check Saudi-US friction started some months ago, though their excuse was Syrian action or inaction on US behalf, real issues lay elsewhere I strongly believe.
  • second event

    Now once this timeframe is communicated to bureaucracy and Indian admistrative bodies. They leak this information to Maruti, esp since Maruti is HQed in/near Delhi. They are closest to reigns of power.
  • third event

    bureaucracy has another job, which is to slowly wean away manufacturers from producing diesel or petrol cars and prepare them for post gasoline locomotion. They have to create policy within a certain timeframe to achieve this goal.
  • fourth event

    maruti takes advantage of this limbo and subverts bureaucracy and judiciary and conning consumers in the process by forcing some weak hybrid tech on the consumers and blocking sales of respectable manufacturers like Toyota, Mitsu, Ford etc.
  • fifth event

    someone gets the brainwave that a non-govt body like NGT is the best vehicle to carry out these lop sided reforms favoring Maruti.

So while the UN deadline may be genuine, what has happened in India is just subversion by a particular manufacturer.

Last edited by lurker : 26th May 2016 at 19:58.
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Old 27th May 2016, 11:57   #24
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Default Re: Threatening Diesel Bans: Keep or Sell older car?


May 27 2016 : The Times of India (Delhi)
CLEAN DRIVE - 'Excise sop may take 28m old vehicles off the roads'
Dipak Dash
New Delhi:


Emission Will Be Down 30%: Govt Paper
Nearly 28 million vehicles, purchased before April 2005, could go off the roads with the government on Thursday proposing incentives to retire old vehicles.
Pitching for the Voluntary Vehicle Fleet Modernization (V-VMP), a concept note, the road transport ministry claimed that the policy has potential to reduce vehicular emission by 25-30% and saving oil consumption by 3.2 billion litres annually .

The reduction in oil consumption by new vehicles will help save nearly Rs 7,000 crore in oil import every year, said the concept note.

“We have invited comments of stakeholders within a fortnight. Simultaneously , the departments concerned have been asked to give their inputs for framing the policy,“ said a transport ministry official. d The concept note proposes cut in excise tax up to 50%, offering fair value for the scrap b material and discounts by auto manufacturers. All these incentives are likely to reduce the cost of a new vehicle for a buyer by 8-12%. It suggests complete excise exemption for state transport buses to encourage public transport and help decongest roads.

The framework for implementing the policy has also been spelt out in the concept note. Those opting for V-VMP will have to deposit documents relating to the vehicle at a recycling and shredding centre.

After verification of documents, the owner will get a V-VMP certificate and the price for the scrap. He then has to provide the certificate and his identity proof to the dealer while buying a new vehicle. This will enable him to get the discounts.

“To ensure that the resultant impact is beneficial to the environment, the replacement vehicle needs to be BSIV compliant, which is going to be rolled out nation-wide by April 2017,“ the note says.

However, the biggest concern remains whether the finance ministry will approve excise tax reduction.

In 2013, then commerce minister Anand Sharma had pitched for sops of up to Rs 1 lakh for phasing out over 15year-old commercial vehicles. But it was rejected by the finance ministry .

http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/A...27052016015018

Last edited by tsk1979 : 29th June 2017 at 09:57.
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Old 15th February 2017, 17:03   #25
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Default Re: Threatening Diesel Bans: Keep or Sell older car?

Fellow BHPians i need a advice.

I have a 2011 model Swift vdi and have completed 1.51 Lakh kms till today. Now my car is giving issues every now and then (small though) and i really wanted to keep this car for long, as i believe that this motor can do the duty for atleast a lakh km more.

At the same time i also dont want to visit the dealership every fortnight. I am in a fix, please suggest. Thanks
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Old 16th February 2017, 19:26   #26
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Default Threatening Diesel Bans: Keep or Sell older car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by keeprevving View Post
I wonder, why should someone sell of his/her vehicle:
1) If it is maintained properly and kept in pristine condition.
2) Checked by RTO, and termed healthy for another 5 years.
3) If it clears the pollution check standards set by Govt.
.


Sadly this is a result of a few things,
concern for the environment being only one of them.
The manufacturers have to keep manufacturing new stuff to keep their home fires burning.
Also the new age 'replacement' economy concept coupled with unbridled consumerism, is rampant, which literally forces one to upgrade and keep on buying car after car with newer and better features and tech. Or for that matter, mobile after mobile after mobile...for instance the iPhone 4,4S,5,5S,6,6S,7 and so on even though all the previous ones will still be working quite well....anyway Im sure you get the drift!

How fondly I remember the '70's and '80's where there was still the concept of the 'Faithful Family Car' that saw two or even three generations grow up and age!

Things were built to last then. They were considered 'lifetime' investments and people lacked the capital and the inclination to indulge in this 'use and throw' behaviour. There was much less access to easy loans and easy credit. Earnings in the protectionist economy were way less too.

Even one's fridge and TV and all those home goods used to last solidly and perform peacefully year after year after year!


Now Im not a Luddite and I love new cars and new tech just as much as the next guy, but I do definitely also appreciate points made by people like you who evidently
look after and maintain their old vehicles caringly, carefully and with lots of affection.

Im rediscovering this side of me, through my recently acquired 15 year old Gypsy and even in that sense, in my 5 plus year old Yeti.

Im now discovering inside me, that
there is NO urge to either change or upgrade in a hurry. Im quite happy for both the above mentioned cars to achieve Classic Status in my hands because between the two, they fulfill every single need that I have currently, in a vehicle.

Except of course, I shall have to change/
upgrade if the Government and the Laws force my hand to do so! Else I am happy to just sit tight and maintain both these cars with a lot of affection and keep running them for many more years! For one thing, this would be far more financially sensible and prudent given that all my other vehicular needs (and wants) are met perfectly by these vehicles!

Here's a pic of a lovingly cared for perfectly Street Legal 1970's Jeep Cherokee that I encountered a couple of months ago in Washington DC. Evidently there are others who feel the same way as some of us fellas do.


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And a quick pic of my two war birds too...

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Last edited by shankar.balan : 16th February 2017 at 19:31.
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Old 27th March 2017, 22:02   #27
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I'm in a similar predicament. To keep or discard my 6 year old diesel Ritz. It serves my purpose just fine but everyone around me recommends that i sell it. Since it's been a while since the diesel ban has been enforced. I would really appreciate what fellow bhpians would like to say...

I would.also like to add that now the car needs a new pair of shoes so wondering if it makes sense to spend on tyres and a few accessories to make it last 3 more years or just bite the bullet and upgrade to a brezza...

I am based in Delhi NCR

Last edited by akshay : 27th March 2017 at 22:22.
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Old 27th March 2017, 22:32   #28
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Default Re: Threatening Diesel Bans: Keep or Sell older car?

I get the feeling, I've an almost 12 year old car that's giving me some great service and I've driven her on the highway loaded to the gills 6 on board + luggage for almost 14 hours just last year and she performed with out a hiccup. I didn't sell the car, even though, I got a new one. If she's one faithful work horse she deserves to stay with you till the end. In fact I have spent to keep mine road worthy. She's family not a car! Here's she resting after the drive! BTW mine is a petrol not diesel.
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Old 27th March 2017, 23:12   #29
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Thanks! It is certainly an inspiring post... my Ritz - She is a very reliable and practical girl especially for city runs... i was planning to keep her for a really long time...She's fun to drive and we have had some really exciting trips up the hills with her.. this was before we got the Tata truck which did a much better job at accommodating our growing family of humans and canines. I think i will keep her for 3 years more till there is clarity on the whole diesel thing ..
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Old 13th June 2017, 15:08   #30
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Default Re: Threatening Diesel Bans: Keep or Sell older car?

I have a 9 year old Getz Diesel which I refuse to part with. Its still a wonderful workhorse.

I did some Googling and found an article dated 30 April 2017, which gives an insight into Centre fighting the case with NGT on its ruling to ban diesel vehicles over 10 years age.

http://www.firstpost.com/india/banni...e-3415766.html
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