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Old 25th May 2016, 15:42   #16
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Default re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post

The government sure makes some weird decisions; whether it's by design or due to their lack of automotive knowledge is anyone's guess (although I'm 100% sure it's Maruti lobbying at work). On the one hand, they offer serious discounts on mild-hybrids that are hardly less polluting in the real world. On the other hand, they ban cars that meet the most stringent emission norms (e.g. Mercedes E250) just because the engine size is over 2 liters. In the same breath, I might add, the VW 2.0L (known for cheating emission norms) is available on sale everywhere! And don't even get me started on the arbitrary sunfilm ban. Just w-e-i-r-d.
GTO, you are right, however a small twist.

Its not government who has banned more than 2000 cc engine, but court has. Similarly sunfilm ban was from the court.

Court gives decisions based upon the case presented to them and their knowledge. To a large extent it has been good.

However, this does not absolve government rules, I guess which doesn't allow listening to music while driving (though not implemented, there is a thread on that too here)

Government doing its bit to promote hybrid, but they should give way more excise duty and other taxes exemption to pure electric cars such as e2O.
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Old 25th May 2016, 16:37   #17
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Default re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

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The government sure makes some weird decisions; whether it's by design or due to their lack of automotive knowledge is anyone's guess (although I'm 100% sure it's Maruti lobbying at work).
Exactly what I thought when the tax cut was announced. Looks like Maruti knew about the tax cut much earlier being a local player and an influencer, while the Hondas lose out (at least initially). Sure to bring Maruti a lot of profits.
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Old 25th May 2016, 19:34   #18
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Default re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

Another big question that deserves a place on the home page and I am surprised to see hasn't been asked as yet is the micro hybrid on the Bolero, Scorpio and XUV 500, maybe the TUV 300. Why no announcement from mahindra regards the same?
NCR scorpios and XUV's are 1999cc and can be easily offered with a Micro hybrid as they are on their 2200cc counterparts, ridiculous.
From being banned in the NCR to tax cut imposed, we make electrical switches for all vehicles and can ensure the mild hybrid jugaad won't cost more than 500 bucks
Up to you GTO
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Old 25th May 2016, 20:20   #19
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Default re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

I read very interesting comment by some reader on ToI website where the news of price cut was posted.

AMTs are poor man's Automatic.
&
SHVS is poor man's Hybrid.
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Old 25th May 2016, 20:46   #20
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Default re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

Again a bold move to fool the indian public by a company that is the market leader in Car industry. And we like sitting ducks would succumb to the sales tactics of this giant. My simple question is that if there are such huge margins then why did the company not pass it on to the customers before. Agreed that the company is trying to pass on the benefit of excise to the customers but they are not fools to not recover this money through exorbitant service costs. They have been doing this all these days from unsuspecting customers. As on date they have withdrawn all the discounts on WagonR CNG models. The discounts ranged upto 65000 in some months. The logic that they gave was OLA and Uber are demanding this vehicle due to ban on diesel cabs in delhi/ncr. Hence they have earned huge profits in past few months. These are enough to cover up their low profits for years altogether. I bet that after few months they would increase the cost of their vehicles to cover up for the price benefits that they have passed today and in the meantime they will increase the service costs as well.

Being responsible members of this forum, i would not hesitate to educate the masses thru all possible means and help the automobile industry by giving all the players a fair chance to prove their worth by providing better technology and products to customers.
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Old 25th May 2016, 20:53   #21
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Default re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

A very pro-active move. Agreed with GTO on lobbying by Maruti, its a company known to be close to successive Govts. & its past is such that its been manipulating the shape & space of the market to suit its needs/goals, has also tried to cut other manufacturers paths too. This move also wouldn't help the pollution/emissions cause directly but will prompt other manufacturers to develop Hybrids.

Btw I have properties at Delhi in my name but no other address proofs(driving licence, voter, adhar, etc are all out of Delhi), can I buy Ertiga from Delhi on the basis of Property ownership ?
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Old 26th May 2016, 11:20   #22
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Default re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

In marketing terms, there are two (among other) kinds of players,

1. First to Market
2. Follow the leader

Now, if Maruti Suzuki has been the "First to Market" SHVS / Mild Hybrid technology by means of lobbying or any other form, why isn't the competition following the leader? Instead of cribbing (we BHPians are cribbing instead on behalf of other manufacturers? ) that Maruti has done lobbying, it would be wise for the manufacturers to take note and "Follow the leader" and add those tricks into their basket too, if it was so simple, and compete.

As always, it is the survival of the fittest.

I myself drive a 6 month old Maruti Suzuki Ciaz SHVS ZDI in Bengaluru, and it is an excellent car. Mild hybrid or not, it still makes for excellent VFM compared to Honda City [personal opinion].
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Old 26th May 2016, 11:21   #23
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Default re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

Can already imagine the sundry agents and brokers in Delhi jump with glee. Expect lots of 'jugaad' done to get the car delivered from Delhi showrooms by showing made up residence proofs or Rent agreements.

How exactly does this work, can the proofs just be shown at the showroom and car registered on your own after delivery?


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Originally Posted by AWD View Post
...
Btw I have properties at Delhi in my name but no other address proofs(driving licence, voter, adhar, etc are all out of Delhi), can I buy Ertiga from Delhi on the basis of Property ownership ?
I'm guessing you mean you have the registry of the property against your name. That as per my knowledge is a perfectly valid address proof.

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Originally Posted by i74js View Post
I am in the market for a car, the needs are limited so standard 5 seat configuration is what I am looking at. Please don't get confused by the final 2 contenders
- Ecosport Ecoboost Titanium (O)
- Ciaz SHVS ZDi+
......
Those who own each can give a better perspective, but from a financial perspective in terms of ownership cost and resale, the difference should be substantial, in favor of the Ciaz obviously. However would humbly request to reconsider your shortlist, since the needs server by both are different. Ideally you should be able to narrow down to a single segment specially with so many options nowadays. For example, why not Brezza instead of Ciaz if it has to be a mini suv?

Last edited by avisidhu : 26th May 2016 at 11:30.
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Old 26th May 2016, 12:13   #24
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Default re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

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Originally Posted by su1978 View Post
My simple question is that if there are such huge margins then why did the company not pass it on to the customers before.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/...cle8587708.ece

Considering that the change in tax structure for Hybrid cars in Delhi came to effect only in the month of May, it would be difficult for Maruti to announce it any earlier.

Last edited by GTO : 26th May 2016 at 14:40. Reason: Removing smiley. No sarcasm please. Thanks
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Old 26th May 2016, 14:46   #25
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Default re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

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Originally Posted by kaushik_ak View Post
Now, if Maruti Suzuki has been the "First to Market" SHVS / Mild Hybrid technology by means of lobbying or any other form, why isn't the competition following the leader?
100% agreed and that is exactly the problem I have.

My issue is NOT with Maruti benefiting from these tax subsidies on lame hybrids. It's the government extending these subsidies to cars that aren't proper hybrids. How much more efficient is the SHVS compared to a proper hybrid in the real world?

My other issue is this - because of subsidies given to lame hybrids, India will never see the real hybrids. What's the incentive?

While I appreciate the government wanting to promote fuel-efficient technologies, it should be very selective about what it promotes.
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Old 26th May 2016, 15:02   #26
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Default re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

I see more prospective car owners pick up Ciaz over City and Ertiga over BR-V, due to the huge price difference. Honda stands to lose on both accounts.
It will not be very surprising if Ciaz comes out as C2 segment leader in a few months beating the City.
Regarding the BR-V, I hardly see Creta customers swaying towards BR-V, it is mostly the MPV customers who will go to BR-V. After this strong price correction for Diesel, Ertiga makes a terrific case for itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post

My other issue is this - because of subsidies given to lame hybrids, India will never see the real hybrids. What's the incentive?

While I appreciate the government wanting to promote fuel-efficient technologies, it should be very selective about what it promotes.
Rightly said!
A manufacturer can simply add a component as small as an Integrated Starter Generator which helps in switching off the engine when the car is not moving. No huge R&D required to make it more efficient.
Real plug-in hybrids require a lot of research from the manufacturer's side, and they would end up costing more. At the end of the day, mild hybrids such as the ones with SHVS system would be seen more cost effective from the car owners' point of view!
What would the car buyers prefer? A cost effective car or an environment friendly car? See e2O's sales for clarity!

Last edited by hybridpetrol : 26th May 2016 at 15:12.
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Old 26th May 2016, 15:06   #27
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Default re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post

My other issue is this - because of subsidies given to lame hybrids, India will never see the real hybrids. What's the incentive?

While I appreciate the government wanting to promote fuel-efficient technologies, it should be very selective about what it promotes.
One may argue that it is a bit difficult to categorize all Hybrids into 'lame' and 'Non-Lame'. Any sort of hybrid, is after all, A hybrid. (Just like the AD, Honda is Honda. )
Therefore, the Govt. has taken the easy way out and chosen to stay away from too many technicalities, and generalize all surplus energy harvesting technologies into one 'Hybrid' umbrella.
Whether the benefit of the tech used is 1kmpl or 10kmpl, they all fall in same category. And that is a policy fail.

The policy should be based on absolute fuel efficiency & emission numbers.
Like for example,
1. more than 30Kmpl = 10%Tax
2. more than 25Kmpl, but less than 30kmpl = 12%Tax
3. So on

Similar a separate surcharge could be collected from emisions, like:
1. Zero emission: 0% surcharge
2. less than Xgrams/km But more than Zero: 5% surcharge
3. So on
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Old 26th May 2016, 15:14   #28
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Default re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

Is there a way to make Maruti include the 12 volt Lithium Ion battery in the cars now?

I think that completes the setup of SHVS. It will definitely become the 'Mild' Hybrid that is said to be. But Maruti would need to do corrections on the ones sold as well.

If we can get the official line as to why the battery was left out, that would be great.
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Old 26th May 2016, 16:35   #29
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Default re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
While I appreciate the government wanting to promote fuel-efficient technologies, it should be very selective about what it promotes.
Ideally, what needs to be taken into consideration is the following:

1. No. of passengers that a vehicle can carry (More the number, lesser the efficiency expected, say for ex. a 7 seater cannot be as efficient as a 5 seater)
2. Minimal mileage that it has to provide under test conditions.
3. Follow some stringent emission norms.
4. Have a mild/fully hybrid technology.

Based on the above four parameters, make an average index which enables a vehicle to be listed under a specific "Hybrid" umbrella.

Based on this index, the tax slabs for discount can be defined.

To draw an analogy, techies like me would know how the Windows Experience Index is calculated
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Old 28th May 2016, 18:47   #30
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Thumbs up re: May 2016: Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga diesel price cut by upto Rs. 68,000 in Delhi/NCR

Lobbying, arm-twisting, cheating...

Call whatever you want, but MSIL is smart enough to make SHVS eligible for Hybrid incentive

I wonder what is stopping other companies from launching a similar hybrid portfolio?

I'm happy that the price cut is passed on to the customers Ertiga and Ciaz are the most VFM in their segment.

BTW why is it confined only to Delhi?
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