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Old 25th May 2016, 17:52   #1
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Default VW's 1.5L Diesel: 108 BHP update coming up

Volkswagen India has announced an upgrade for it's 1.5L 4-cylinder TDI engine - the diesel powerplant will now produce 108BHP of power, instead of the existing 103BHP.

This additional 5BHP boost in power is expected to improve the oil-burner's overall efficiency. Torque figures remain the same at 230Nm.

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This upgraded engine will be introduced in the Vento in October 2016, before getting plonked in the Polo, the Skoda Rapid and the Volkswagen Ameo.

Quote:
They had introduced this new diesel engine in 2014 to replace the 1.2-litre three-cylinder unit as well as the 1.6-litre four-cylinder unit. It powers a variety of models in the VW range as well as the Skoda Rapid.

Speaking at the roll out of the Ameo compact sedan at its facility near Pune, Andreas Lauermann, MD of VW India said this updated 1.5-litre four-cylinder engine will now produce 108bhp instead of 103bhp.
Carwale
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Old 25th May 2016, 19:53   #2
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Default Re: Volkswagen India: The Way Forward

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post

This additional 5BHP boost in power is expected to improve the oil-burner's overall efficiency. Torque figures remain the same at 230Nm.
Thank you RavenAvi for sharing that update.

I have a quick question though,.. the Torque figures on the old 1.6 TDi & the current 1.5 TDi is 250Nm right?

So is this a typo from Carwale or have VW reduced the torque figures to help benefit the FE or some other 'Unknown' demand ??

Last edited by Vik0728 : 25th May 2016 at 19:55.
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Old 25th May 2016, 20:46   #3
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Default Re: Volkswagen India: The Way Forward

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Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
I have a quick question though,.. the Torque figures on the old 1.6 TDi & the current 1.5 TDi is 250Nm right?
Obviously a typo.

The regular Polo's 1.5L TDI produces 230Nm of torque. The Vento's 1.5L unit, which is shared with the Polo GT TDI, produces 250Nm.

Bet this upgraded engine will produce the same 250Nm torque for the Vento & the Polo GT TDI, after the 5BHP power boost.

It remains to be seen how much boost in power figures the regular Polo diesel will get, since it produces only 89BHP as opposed to 103BHP in the other two cars. Maybe this upgrade will be restricted to the 103BHP tuned TDI only.

Last edited by RavenAvi : 25th May 2016 at 21:12. Reason: Added a point
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Old 25th May 2016, 21:14   #4
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Default Re: Volkswagen India: The Way Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by YashD View Post

Will the normal Polo too get a boost in power or just the Polo GT TDi will receive the extra bhp?
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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post

It remains to be seen how much boost in power figures the regular Polo diesel will get, since it produces only 89BHP as opposed to 103BHP in the other two cars.
I have a funny feeling that there could be a slight bump in the torque figures as well, at least with the TDI engines that get onto the Ventos, Rapids and GTs.

On the contrary however, if the regular Polo TDIs get the 108BHP tuning, that will make the GT completely redundant and out the the 'Exclusivity' game.

So my wild guess is:

1. Vento, Rapid, GT - 1.5 TDI - 108 BHP and 260Nm
2. Polo & 'May Be' Trendline Ameo - 1.5 TDI - 90 BHP and 230Nm

One thing is for sure that the 1.5 TDI with the 90HP tune will stay at least for the regular Polos, else there is nobody who would buy a GT TDI for cosmetic upgrades!!
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Old 26th May 2016, 05:57   #5
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Default Re: Volkswagen India: The Way Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
I have a funny feeling that there could be a slight bump in the torque figures as well, at least with the TDI engines that get onto the Ventos, Rapids and GTs.

On the contrary however, if the regular Polo TDIs get the 108BHP tuning, that will make the GT completely redundant and out the the 'Exclusivity' game.

So my wild guess is:

1. Vento, Rapid, GT - 1.5 TDI - 108 BHP and 260Nm
2. Polo & 'May Be' Trendline Ameo - 1.5 TDI - 90 BHP and 230Nm

One thing is for sure that the 1.5 TDI with the 90HP tune will stay at least for the regular Polos, else there is nobody who would buy a GT TDI for cosmetic upgrades!!
Obviously, bumping the power of regular Polo to 108 bhp doesn't make any sense. As you said it will automatically kill the GT but seeing the bump in power in all the cars having the same engine, expecting a 5 HP boost in the Polo TDi too or maybe a higher torque though these are just wild thoughts. Feasibly, 90 Bhp Regular Polos makes much more sense.
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Old 26th May 2016, 16:28   #6
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Default Re: Volkswagen India: The Way Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by YashD View Post
Obviously, bumping the power of regular Polo to 108 bhp doesn't make any sense. As you said it will automatically kill the GT but seeing the bump in power in all the cars having the same engine, expecting a 5 HP boost in the Polo TDi too or maybe a higher torque though these are just wild thoughts. Feasibly, 90 Bhp Regular Polos makes much more sense.
I think the existing power difference between regular Polo and GT TDI was less. In my opinion, they want to justify the GT TDI even more, and push the customers higher up the price bracket. That is where the margins are.

The strategy is to keep entry level price low and bring more customer into the showroom. The customer walks in with the intention of buying the entry or mid-level model. After the customer shows some signs of happiness, they will bait him an extra 20 horses & a few badges at a proper premium. Nice.

On a side note, I always wondered what was difference in the engine internals used in regular 1.5 Polo Diesel and GT TDI (Apart from Turbo).
Could a regular polo 1.5 TDI be 'converted' into GT TDI by upgrading some engine components?

Last edited by abhishek46 : 26th May 2016 at 16:31. Reason: added comment
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Old 26th May 2016, 20:37   #7
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Default Re: Volkswagen India: The Way Forward

The Article doesn't talk about the regular polo. There's no clarity whether it'll also be updated.

From what I understand:

Tune 1: 90 BHP, 230 Nm for the Regular Polo
Tune 2(which will be updated): 108 BHP, 250 Nm For Vento, Rapid, Polo GT TDI and Ameo

There's no chance the regular Polo will get the current 103 BHP state of tune. If it does, it'll kill the Polo GT TDI.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 26th May 2016 at 20:39.
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Old 26th May 2016, 21:53   #8
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Default Re: Volkswagen India: The Way Forward

Vento, Rapid and Ameo will have Diesel Dsgs. I suppose the torque will remain same as earlier as the dsg can handle a maximum of only 250 Nm torque.
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Old 27th May 2016, 08:15   #9
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Default Re: Volkswagen India: The Way Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
I have a quick question though,.. the Torque figures on the old 1.6 TDi & the current 1.5 TDi is 250Nm right?
Torque values of the new/upgraded 1.5TDI engine is expected to be the same as the earlier version - 250 Nm of maximum torque at 1,500-2,500 (Vento /Polo GT TDI)rpm.

Last edited by volkman10 : 27th May 2016 at 08:17.
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Old 27th May 2016, 11:14   #10
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Default re: VW's 1.5L Diesel: 108 BHP update coming up

Thanks for sharing, RavenAvi! Moving the engine update posts into a new thread .
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Old 27th May 2016, 11:49   #11
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Default re: VW's 1.5L Diesel: 108 BHP update coming up

I can think of 2 reasons why Torque figures haven't improved in-spite of slight bump in power

- DQ200 DSG transmission has a torque limit of 250Nm. So to make sure they have similar tuning for earlier and current DSG models to reduce overheads.

- Major suspicion is that the increase in power is to offset the reduction in torque/power at wheels due to Diesel gate fix
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Old 27th May 2016, 12:23   #12
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Default re: VW's 1.5L Diesel: 108 BHP update coming up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
I have a funny feeling that there could be a slight bump in the torque figures as well, at least with the TDI engines that get onto the Ventos, Rapids and GTs.
No chance in improvement in torque figures, according to various reports.

As said above, the DSG box comes with that specific torque limiter of 250Nm which kicks in at 1,500 rpm.


Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Could a regular polo 1.5 TDI be 'converted' into GT TDI by upgrading some engine components?
A turbocharged re-map could be a possible solution. (although it might void your warranty)
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Old 27th May 2016, 12:41   #13
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Default re: VW's 1.5L Diesel: 108 BHP update coming up

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post

A turbocharged re-map could be a possible solution. (although it might void your warranty)
You mean to say that both engines are using same VG turbo with different tune? And a re-map to increase boost pressure will bring both the engines to same specs?

Alternatively, if someone buys a bare bones trendline, and then puts in the ECU of GT TDI into 1.5TDI, will he be the owner of 103 horses instead of 89?
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Old 27th May 2016, 13:15   #14
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Default Re: VW's 1.5L Diesel: 108 BHP update coming up

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Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
You mean to say that both engines are using same VG turbo with different tune? And a re-map to increase boost pressure will bring both the engines to same specs?

Alternatively, if someone buys a bare bones trendline, and then puts in the ECU of GT TDI into 1.5TDI, will he be the owner of 103 horses instead of 89?
A must-read for you - Remapping the Polo 1.5L TDI

Enjoy!
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Old 27th May 2016, 23:08   #15
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Default Re: VW's 1.5L Diesel: 108 BHP update coming up

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
You mean to say that both engines are using same VG turbo with different tune? And a re-map to increase boost pressure will bring both the engines to same specs?

Alternatively, if someone buys a bare bones trendline, and then puts in the ECU of GT TDI into 1.5TDI, will he be the owner of 103 horses instead of 89?
There are no hardware changes in GT TDI. It differs only by ECU tune. With remap you can get same power in regular polo and GT.

Plonking ECU of GT into regular Polo won't help. Immobiliser coding, Vehicle identification data is unique for a particular car.
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