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Old 31st May 2016, 15:02   #106
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

I would tag this as the poorest of the poor survey in a very retarded state of mind. To begin with who got an idea to change the stock rubbers on these cars. Manufacturers load their cars with certain specs tyres considering the weight of the car and the engine power. You throw a cheap tyre at powerful cars and then complain about cornering and wheel spins and what not - Overdrive, check your brains please.
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Old 31st May 2016, 15:15   #107
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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I would tag this as the poorest of the poor survey in a very retarded state of mind. To begin with who got an idea to change the stock rubbers on these cars. Manufacturers load their cars with certain specs tyres considering the weight of the car and the engine power. You throw a cheap tyre at powerful cars and then complain about cornering and wheel spins and what not - Overdrive, check your brains please.
As discussed already on this thread, there are two schools of thought on this issue. Many people believe that certain things have to be standardised before comparing cars on the track as inferior rubber on some cars may put them at a significant disadvantage. So in this particular test the figo gained some time as the stock figo comes with crappy mrf ZV2k's or goodyear gt3's and the punto may have lost some time due to the downgrade in its tires. So it all depends on which school of thought you subscribe to i.e whether all cars in their stock form should be track tested or all cars should have standardised similar tires. I am in favor of the latter, either way it will never be possible to please everyone with the tire choice.
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Old 31st May 2016, 15:19   #108
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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Originally Posted by bullrun87 View Post
As discussed already on this thread, there are two schools of thought on this issue. Many people believe that certain things have to be standardised before comparing cars on the track as inferior rubber on some cars may put them at a significant disadvantage. So in this particular test the figo gained some time as the stock figo comes with crappy mrf ZV2k's or goodyear gt3's and the punto may have lost some time due to the downgrade in its tires. So it all depends on which school of thought you subscribe to i.e whether all cars in their stock form should be track tested or all cars should have standardised similar tires. I am in favor of the latter, either way it will never be possible to please everyone with the tire choice.
To avoid injustice to any of the car and to agree with what you said i would say that all cars should be equipped with with similar " But Better" tyres. Say continental CPC2 or Michelins etc. This way all cars would have standard better tyres. Putting a shoddy tyre onto a performance hatch is like pulling its legs politically
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Old 31st May 2016, 15:19   #109
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

To be completely impartial, overdrive should have used 3 professional drivers and then come up with their results. Then you have no scope for argument .

That to me would have been a well conducted track shoot out.
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Old 31st May 2016, 15:44   #110
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
To avoid injustice to any of the car and to agree with what you said i would say that all cars should be equipped with with similar " But Better" tyres. Say continental CPC2 or Michelins etc. This way all cars would have standard better tyres. Putting a shoddy tyre onto a performance hatch is like pulling its legs politically
Yes, you are right. When standardising tires for a track day the best possible tires should be sought. cheap tires are made with longevity in mind, expensive softer tires can do wonders to lap times.

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To be completely impartial, overdrive should have used 3 professional drivers and then come up with their results. Then you have no scope for argument .

That to me would have been a well conducted track shoot out.
On a lighter note, the best way to solve this conundrum is for us bhpians to organise a track day and bring our cars and find the average lap time for each of these cars.
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Old 31st May 2016, 15:46   #111
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
To avoid injustice to any of the car and to agree with what you said i would say that all cars should be equipped with with similar " But Better" tyres. Say continental CPC2 or Michelins etc. This way all cars would have standard better tyres. Putting a shoddy tyre onto a performance hatch is like pulling its legs politically
Completely agree; they ought to have used some grade of performance tyres like Advans, Pilot Sports or even basic performance tyres like Direzzas or S.Drives, but then the width of the tyre and its profile will also come into play. Basically all these hatchbacks run eco tyres with narrow contact patch for better fuel economy. The Punto could do with wider 205 section tyres but that may be overkill for some of the other hatchbacks if you are using sticky rubber. Given such complications, I believe OD did the best with what they had. Sure the JK tyres might have prevented a few of the cars from extracting more from their motors. That said, it still remains a good show of chassis dynamics at the limit if you were to say that all the cars made do with similar low levels of performance.

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Old 31st May 2016, 15:46   #112
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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As discussed already on this thread, there are two schools of thought on this issue.
There's a gross misunderstanding of things here. Please understand what standardisation means. Let's say there's a hurdle race between two boys. One with perfect vision and another one with negative power vision. Giving the second person a pair of glasses to correct his vision is standardisation. Asking the first person ALSO to wear the same spec glasses with compensating power and calling it standardisation is STUPIDITY.

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Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
To avoid injustice to any of the car and to agree with what you said i would say that all cars should be equipped with with similar " But Better" tyres. Say continental CPC2 or Michelins etc. This way all cars would have standard better tyres. Putting a shoddy tyre onto a performance hatch is like pulling its legs politically
+1

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I also hope people understand that when a standard/uniform brand (in this case) of tires is used, it could be an upgrade from OEM for a car while it could be a downgrade for another car.
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Old 31st May 2016, 15:56   #113
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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Yes, you are right. When standardising tires for a track day the best possible tires should be sought. cheap tires are made with longevity in mind, expensive softer tires can do wonders to lap times.
I am in the camp that says use the same tyre, but I can see the validity of the other side.

Soooo.. go the whole hog and do the tests with stock and similar tyres. That should really tbring out the importance, or not of tyres to a car driven at the limit. Also, nothing like more data to add fuel to the fire.

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On a lighter note, the best way to solve this conundrum is for us bhpians to organise a track day and bring our cars and find the average lap time for each of these cars.
Only if the the beer is free.
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Old 31st May 2016, 16:15   #114
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I am in the camp that says use the same tyre, but I can see the validity of the other side.
I feel they should have used the same tyres, but better ones which are known for outright grip! That would not have left any cause for complaint. Tyres would not have been the limiting factor for any car in contention.

JK Vectras for the track is
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Old 31st May 2016, 16:22   #115
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

Well if tires are the reason for a car with 145 bhp performing in same ballpark as a 100bhp car, then why charge so much premium? just sell the abarth Punto at price similar to figo. Those who want the extra 45bhp to "show up in actual" can just replace the tires.
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Old 31st May 2016, 16:27   #116
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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I feel they should have used the same tyres, but better ones which are known for outright grip! That would not have left any cause for complaint. Tyres would not have been the limiting factor for any car in contention.

JK Vectras for the track is
I agree that would have been ideal, but the thing is we don't live in an ideal world we live in India take the Jazz for example; it comes with 175/65 R15 even basic Potenzas aren't offered in that size. No performance tyres are available in stock size for many of these cars. I feel we ought to all just be happy to judge chassis dynamics instead of being pedantic

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Old 31st May 2016, 16:48   #117
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. I feel we ought to all just be happy to judge chassis dynamics instead of being pedantic
I wouldn't be surprised if a Ferrari returns similar timings in those JK Vectras, with the exception of producing more spectacular smoke. And Aditya would have clearly commented that he had to short shift the Ferrari through gears to avoid wheelspin. And that the car was eating through the tyres far faster than any other car on test.

And then a big discussion would have followed regarding the poor chassis balance of the Ferrari.

Any product is only as good as the weakest link. If they had put excellent tyres on all cars and then compared, well and good. They did not! But they clearly mentioned the limitations in the test as well. I find it really amusing to see keyboard warriors are finding newer assumptions from the test just by looking at the figures. Some are sure it's the gearbox, some others chassis, some suspension.

But it's considered pedantic to discuss about the tyres regarding which Aditya who tested it has commented. Even Bert recommended better tyres, while Rishaad complained of suspension, bucket seats and wheelspin through corners (tyres again!). Overdrive tests are welcome, overdrive results are welcome, but overdrive observations are thrown out for own observations and agenda.

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Old 31st May 2016, 17:00   #118
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

Frankly, I'm amazed at the petty things people are complaining about to divert attention from the real results. Facts. Data points. Numbers.

Armchair engineering at its best.

Ok, let's talk about tyres.

I mean, the Figo beat the Abarth with 175/65 section tyres on 14" wheels.
The Abarth had 195/65 section tyres, shod on 16" wheels.

Do I see anyone complaining about how the Figo would do so much better with 16" wheels and wider tyres?
If the Abarth can be made to go faster with go-fast bits, so can the other cars in the test, including the Figo.
Fact remains - The Figo diesel matched the Abarth in straight line speed (both hit 151kmph top speed, spec table on the overdrive page has a typo where the 1.5DCT is listed as having hit 151 instead of the 1.5 TDCi).
Plonk in an RD box in the Figo for 20k (like I have) and you get 125BHP. Abarth with LSD + Performance tyres + stiffer suspension + lakhs more of money down the drain obliterated. If you still want to go faster, put the LSD + Performance tyres + stiffer suspension on the Figo. Why bother with the Abarth at all? Steering feel? Sure, if you think that's worth 3 lakh rupees, go ahead and get the Abarth. For the rest of us, who may not want to pay 3 lakh for the steering feel, we can pick the Figo and mod the hell out of it.

MODS: Doesn't look like this thread is going anywhere - you might as well decide to lock it.
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Old 31st May 2016, 17:01   #119
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
Well if tires are the reason for a car with 145 bhp performing in same ballpark as a 100bhp car, then why charge so much premium? just sell the abarth Punto at price similar to figo. Those who want the extra 45bhp to "show up in actual" can just replace the tires.
Fiat does not sell Punto with Vectras. It is OD which replaced the 'average' Apollos with 'bad' Vectras.
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Old 31st May 2016, 17:34   #120
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
I feel they should have used the same tyres, but better ones which are known for outright grip! That would not have left any cause for complaint. Tyres would not have been the limiting factor for any car in contention.

JK Vectras for the track is
I agree. I too would suggest all the cars be fitted with high performing sport/track tyres. That would be a better leveller. A punto which is much heavier than a figo and thereby face more momentum or centrifugal force would stand to lose more time when driven hard around a corner (or while braking) due to less grippy tyres. Granted that better tyres would make all cars go faster but I am not sure that all cars would go faster by the same amount. A great comparison nonetheless.
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